BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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PCCC
this is a welcome development.
to prevent it becoming another BASSA it is essential that ordinary members do read and challenge everything put before them. and, you the ordinary member, must be prepared to take office. ideally, no one should remain in office for more than say 3 years. ( is there i wonder a limit as to how many of each CC grade can serve on the executive?)
remember 'all power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely' and 'all that it needs for evil to flourish is for good men (and women) to do nothing'
i do wish PCCC good fortune.
to prevent it becoming another BASSA it is essential that ordinary members do read and challenge everything put before them. and, you the ordinary member, must be prepared to take office. ideally, no one should remain in office for more than say 3 years. ( is there i wonder a limit as to how many of each CC grade can serve on the executive?)
remember 'all power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely' and 'all that it needs for evil to flourish is for good men (and women) to do nothing'
i do wish PCCC good fortune.
Congrats to pccc
Congrats to pccc.
I am impressed that some one has the courage and sense to look for a better way forward. Let us hope that they can get more and more members.
Joao - the creation of DH and LaLa et al is completely down to BA managers in the past. I've been going on about this for a couple of years. BA has moved on, bassa has not.
However, approx 4,000 BA CC will probably take part in Industrial action of some sort. DH can't be a "leader" without those followers.
It remains in the hands of BA managers to get out and about, where the crew are, (not in HQ) to find and solve problems, and to talk face to face to their staff.
I would fire any crew manager who had more than, say, 25% of their staff take part in IA.
I am impressed that some one has the courage and sense to look for a better way forward. Let us hope that they can get more and more members.
Joao - the creation of DH and LaLa et al is completely down to BA managers in the past. I've been going on about this for a couple of years. BA has moved on, bassa has not.
However, approx 4,000 BA CC will probably take part in Industrial action of some sort. DH can't be a "leader" without those followers.
It remains in the hands of BA managers to get out and about, where the crew are, (not in HQ) to find and solve problems, and to talk face to face to their staff.
I would fire any crew manager who had more than, say, 25% of their staff take part in IA.
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AO
Blunt as ever, but some fair points. I am sure Bassa would love so see an amount of managers dismissed, but at what level? Starting at the top?
If all that BA promise is true, then any manager should be able to walk up to a group of crew and defend all of the current proposed protections on offer. This is what the best managers do at times like this. Not one to ones, but a sizable group.
Maybe this is what the PCCC will do too. This may seem harsh to some, but this new fleet has appeared under Unites watch, on terrible T&C's in comparison to existing employees. You cannot deny that.
There is an arguement that if all crew had stayed in Bassa and Unite had served notice on both agreements prior to this whole process and come back with a single recognition arrangement, then things may have been different. But that is hindsight again which serves no purpose today.
If all that BA promise is true, then any manager should be able to walk up to a group of crew and defend all of the current proposed protections on offer. This is what the best managers do at times like this. Not one to ones, but a sizable group.
Maybe this is what the PCCC will do too. This may seem harsh to some, but this new fleet has appeared under Unites watch, on terrible T&C's in comparison to existing employees. You cannot deny that.
There is an arguement that if all crew had stayed in Bassa and Unite had served notice on both agreements prior to this whole process and come back with a single recognition arrangement, then things may have been different. But that is hindsight again which serves no purpose today.
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The PCCC have been threatening to come out for well over a year now. Had they come to the fore and began recruiting openly some months back they would be in a position to have some influence. No doubt they have their reasons for staying under cover. Should a figure head at the very least be brave enough to stand up and be counted? Would that aid the recruitment process and make things a lot easier in the long run?
No doubt they will have no recognition problems within BA. If they are run properly I wish them all the success they will deserve. I do envisage a split within BA between those who will see it as a management tool (whether or not it is justified) and those who see it as a new TU. As they have said little I'll keep any judgement until they show what they are about.
I am not a fan of Unite. It was pretty obvious from the start that the main problem was always going to come from the ex T&G branches. The set up for negotiations seems to be unique within BA and that is a weakness for both the TU and the Company. It's time all of that was also addressed.
No doubt they will have no recognition problems within BA. If they are run properly I wish them all the success they will deserve. I do envisage a split within BA between those who will see it as a management tool (whether or not it is justified) and those who see it as a new TU. As they have said little I'll keep any judgement until they show what they are about.
I am not a fan of Unite. It was pretty obvious from the start that the main problem was always going to come from the ex T&G branches. The set up for negotiations seems to be unique within BA and that is a weakness for both the TU and the Company. It's time all of that was also addressed.
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Indeed, if you look at the front page of the Bassa website (as slf I can't go any further) you will see that they say they are the largest branch of the T&GW.
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Personally, as SLF, I'm delighted to see the PCCC coming to the fore. Fresh thinking, honesty and a willingness to discuss the issues.
Good luck to you all ... I'd make a donation to funds, but I couldn't see a way.
Good luck to you all ... I'd make a donation to funds, but I couldn't see a way.
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I hope you are right by the way..
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call100:
True..we will wait to see what the PCCC represents. Your cautionary comments regarding their policies, procedures are taken...but in the face of BASSA's policies of outing disagreeing members, blatant misrepresenting of facts ( planes parked at Cardiff, etc.) and their constant and agressive insistence on smearing other Union members who disagree with their stance, forgive us for hoping for something better for not only BA but Cabin Crew.
Truly, how could they do worse than BASSA in this situation? If a representative body emerges that will be a strong advocate for its members with a real world sensibility who could object to the progress?
Cabin Crew deserve more than missives regarding tomatoes and alcohol intake. How wonderful if they could regain not only their employer's, but the public's respect in how they approach their position.
I'd write a check in support.
True..we will wait to see what the PCCC represents. Your cautionary comments regarding their policies, procedures are taken...but in the face of BASSA's policies of outing disagreeing members, blatant misrepresenting of facts ( planes parked at Cardiff, etc.) and their constant and agressive insistence on smearing other Union members who disagree with their stance, forgive us for hoping for something better for not only BA but Cabin Crew.
Truly, how could they do worse than BASSA in this situation? If a representative body emerges that will be a strong advocate for its members with a real world sensibility who could object to the progress?
Cabin Crew deserve more than missives regarding tomatoes and alcohol intake. How wonderful if they could regain not only their employer's, but the public's respect in how they approach their position.
I'd write a check in support.
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The people usually get the representation they deserve. That aside I hope all the expectation morphs into action. Rather than give them support just because they are an alternative, I'll wait until they prove to be a viable alternative.
I know BASSA won't be a hard act to follow and the PCCC may be the answer. However, I'll hold onto my money for the time being thank you very much...
I know BASSA won't be a hard act to follow and the PCCC may be the answer. However, I'll hold onto my money for the time being thank you very much...
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Diplome
I think your last post is a bit political (not a criticism,but an observation)l. I do not think the PCCC will be forging many policies for some time. Hopefully they will just be doing what they believe is right for their membership.
Unite champion equality, working time and health and safety etc. All just and sound causes. The PCCC will mainly be about a fresh perspective in this current dispute.
They have obviously done their homework and are now a certified TU. If they take on Unite and existing agreements, they will loose. If they are going to go anywhere, then a mixed fleet recognition agreement will be the first step.
Now feel free to comment on this, but it is a discussion point not a view. BA have now got complete control of the cabin crew community. Unite will be United soon, but there is now the "Third Man' in the equation.
Unite champion equality, working time and health and safety etc. All just and sound causes. The PCCC will mainly be about a fresh perspective in this current dispute.
They have obviously done their homework and are now a certified TU. If they take on Unite and existing agreements, they will loose. If they are going to go anywhere, then a mixed fleet recognition agreement will be the first step.
Now feel free to comment on this, but it is a discussion point not a view. BA have now got complete control of the cabin crew community. Unite will be United soon, but there is now the "Third Man' in the equation.
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A union or a works council should be about the members not the personalities at the top. Hasn't alot of the past few years been more to do with the egos of the Bassa head table rather than the need to move forward.
So does it matter who is at the top of the PCCC as long as they exsist for the members not their own egos.
So does it matter who is at the top of the PCCC as long as they exsist for the members not their own egos.
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Call100
You make a very good point.
As long as the leaders of PCCC remain anonymous, it is difficult to form an opinion of their capabilities and attitudes.
Writing a cheque to an an known organization may be cathartic, but the halo effect may have more to do with this feeling that any other factor.
A bit of leadership is required, if PCCC shows this, there is a great opportunity to breathe fresh air into the arena.
You make a very good point.
As long as the leaders of PCCC remain anonymous, it is difficult to form an opinion of their capabilities and attitudes.
Writing a cheque to an an known organization may be cathartic, but the halo effect may have more to do with this feeling that any other factor.
A bit of leadership is required, if PCCC shows this, there is a great opportunity to breathe fresh air into the arena.
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Joao de Silva
A bit of leadership is required, if PCCC shows this, there is a great opportunity to breathe fresh air into the arena.
I assume that they are still fearful of possible recriminations, hence their reticence to step into the spotlight of full disclosure. Obviously this will hinder their potential to gain members.
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There is no doubt the formation of PCCC is a very good one. It is just what BA want - they might not think that now but they will. There are clearly some very fine, good cabin staff working for BA and they deserve to have an honest body represent them - no leaders or reps who think the union belongs to them. There is no room for that.
The rules for running it have to be crystal clear so that everyone can trust everyone else.
Congratulations to the those who set this up. But please get it under way very soon. I will happily donate to it.
The rules for running it have to be crystal clear so that everyone can trust everyone else.
Congratulations to the those who set this up. But please get it under way very soon. I will happily donate to it.
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I am not sure I agree about an announcement on the PCCC executive. If I went into my workplace and asked a union member who his officer was, I am confident there would be a don't know response. I would also be surprised if more than a handful knew the name of the General Secretary either.
It would be enough for me just to see the effort that a group of workers have put into setting this listed union up.
Would I leave Unite to join an association like the PCCC? Not a chance. The funding and support that Unite offer me and the people I work with, will not be matched by a free association. However, if I had left Bassa because of the direction it had taken, then what would I have to loose by joining the PCCC? A potential voice is better than none. However, I would look at what the JGS's secured as an offer and if I felt that it was acceptable to me, I would rejoin Unite for the member benefits.
The website looks slick and the words it contains sound reasoned and balanced.
I know this post is a bit disjointed and it is my 3rd attempt too!
It would be enough for me just to see the effort that a group of workers have put into setting this listed union up.
Would I leave Unite to join an association like the PCCC? Not a chance. The funding and support that Unite offer me and the people I work with, will not be matched by a free association. However, if I had left Bassa because of the direction it had taken, then what would I have to loose by joining the PCCC? A potential voice is better than none. However, I would look at what the JGS's secured as an offer and if I felt that it was acceptable to me, I would rejoin Unite for the member benefits.
The website looks slick and the words it contains sound reasoned and balanced.
I know this post is a bit disjointed and it is my 3rd attempt too!
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Originally Posted by fincastle84
Re PCCC, I've emailed them to ask that very question. If I receive a reply I'll forward it.
Isn't it interesting? ... the poor, battered, SLF talking about donating funds to a CC union!!
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LB
I agree there is more to a TU than a current dispute and making a decision to leave one for another would not be an easy one or one taken in haste.
That is why I think someone should be putting the PCCC out there as a viable alternative rather than relying on people to join just because it's not BASSA. I don't know if they are going to be any good for the members or just good for the Daily Mailites. Either way the people need to know.
As for who leads it, normally I would agree with your view about members not knowing who leads nationally. It is all usually about local representation. In this case though the PCCC is being formed locally within one company. So who leads and voices the policies may be important this time around.
None of this would be the way I would have dealt with the whole situation, it is, unfortunately the way that BA CC find themselves heading. Ultimately it is they who will make the decisions. I can't help thinking that the camp will be divided for a long time to come...
I agree there is more to a TU than a current dispute and making a decision to leave one for another would not be an easy one or one taken in haste.
That is why I think someone should be putting the PCCC out there as a viable alternative rather than relying on people to join just because it's not BASSA. I don't know if they are going to be any good for the members or just good for the Daily Mailites. Either way the people need to know.
As for who leads it, normally I would agree with your view about members not knowing who leads nationally. It is all usually about local representation. In this case though the PCCC is being formed locally within one company. So who leads and voices the policies may be important this time around.
None of this would be the way I would have dealt with the whole situation, it is, unfortunately the way that BA CC find themselves heading. Ultimately it is they who will make the decisions. I can't help thinking that the camp will be divided for a long time to come...