BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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Another way to look at the numbers from the first ballot to this one:
First Ballot 12780 ballot papers; 9514 votes yes
Latest ballot 10220 ballot papers; 5751 votes yes
So, an admitted 2560 fewer ballot papers (membership down 20%) and 40% fewer voting yes.
Doesn't look good for BASSA, I predict BA do very little - the next move is for Unite/BASSA and for BA to yawn.
First Ballot 12780 ballot papers; 9514 votes yes
Latest ballot 10220 ballot papers; 5751 votes yes
So, an admitted 2560 fewer ballot papers (membership down 20%) and 40% fewer voting yes.
Doesn't look good for BASSA, I predict BA do very little - the next move is for Unite/BASSA and for BA to yawn.
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Originally Posted by top bunk
I predict BA do very little - the next move is for Unite/BASSA and for BA to yawn.
Me, I really don't care.
If there are really 5,000 ....arrogant, aggressive, petulant, dissatisfied, over-paid, legacy, inflexible, sub-standard CC ... out there [please note you are only allowed to slect a maximum of 2 perjorative adjectives] I would be surprised.
My shiny sixpence would go on there being <1,000 militants and c. 4,000 really silly, gullible, people who believe everything BASSA says.
Why does BA employ silly, gullible people? Discuss at your leisure.
I certainly hope that BA 'adjust' cabin crew rosters when they are advised of strike dates. If they can ensure that the militant trouble makers are in the firing line, rather than the 'lemmings', then they will hopefully be able to sack strikers this time.
It is completely obvious that this ballot was called for almost exactly the same reasons as the last time. That means the strikers will not be protected and BA can sack them this time. It may seem harsh to those of you reading this, but the vast majority of BA staff have accepted the need for change and are doing their best to keep BA flying.
Hopefully the 'legal' lot (who are now in charge of ''''negotiations'''') will use a stick this time - rather than a feather from before!!
It is completely obvious that this ballot was called for almost exactly the same reasons as the last time. That means the strikers will not be protected and BA can sack them this time. It may seem harsh to those of you reading this, but the vast majority of BA staff have accepted the need for change and are doing their best to keep BA flying.
Hopefully the 'legal' lot (who are now in charge of ''''negotiations'''') will use a stick this time - rather than a feather from before!!
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We sing from the same song-sheet, Sporran. 
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Sorry sorry sorry
Mariner9, BetterByBoat and Fincastle84
A million apologies. I have edited my post to show the correct figures. A case of fingers thinking faster than brain (nothing new there) So, now you know that not only am I am new here, you also realise that I am a complete dumpling as well - but hopefully nice with it!!!
Mariner9 thanks for the warm welcome to the forum.
A million apologies. I have edited my post to show the correct figures. A case of fingers thinking faster than brain (nothing new there) So, now you know that not only am I am new here, you also realise that I am a complete dumpling as well - but hopefully nice with it!!!
Mariner9 thanks for the warm welcome to the forum.
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Welcome along maeboyce - thought you were a BASSA spin merchant somehow juggling 5751 into 7500 ... 
Hopefully CC can see light at the end of the tunnel. With BA better prepared than ever and the number of strike votes reducing by 2000 on each ballot, there is nothing much to do other than look for some good deals flying BA.
Hopefully CC can see light at the end of the tunnel. With BA better prepared than ever and the number of strike votes reducing by 2000 on each ballot, there is nothing much to do other than look for some good deals flying BA.
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Me - a BASSA spin merchant - how very dare you
Wondered why some of the posters seemed a touch cross with me - the only figures I can ever spin are housekeeping ones. Honestly, just a former BA staff member who hoped BASSA might have got a bloody nose this time round with far fewer yes votes. Admittedly, there are far fewer this time round but I had hoped for less yesses.
Wondered why some of the posters seemed a touch cross with me - the only figures I can ever spin are housekeeping ones. Honestly, just a former BA staff member who hoped BASSA might have got a bloody nose this time round with far fewer yes votes. Admittedly, there are far fewer this time round but I had hoped for less yesses.
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My attention has been drawn to the Abilene paradox.
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Potentially this is worse for BASSA \ Unite than a no vote. A no vote would have been embarressing but no more.
They now have little room for manuever other than to call a strike (especially as they seem to think that 78% of CC voted for strike action
). Given that BA flew through the last strike and this time there are:
- fewer voting for strike action
- less strikers (I wouldn't expect anyone who hasn't already been on strike to start now)
- mixed fleet
- more and better trained VCC
I would not expect BA to do too much in the short term and just let BASSA \ Unite play their hand. If things fall well for BA (e.g. succesful court action against the Unions) then they will hold all the cards and can decide then how best to play them.
At worst, BA will just see out this round of strikes like the last.
They now have little room for manuever other than to call a strike (especially as they seem to think that 78% of CC voted for strike action
). Given that BA flew through the last strike and this time there are:- fewer voting for strike action
- less strikers (I wouldn't expect anyone who hasn't already been on strike to start now)
- mixed fleet
- more and better trained VCC
I would not expect BA to do too much in the short term and just let BASSA \ Unite play their hand. If things fall well for BA (e.g. succesful court action against the Unions) then they will hold all the cards and can decide then how best to play them.
At worst, BA will just see out this round of strikes like the last.
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What do BA do now?
My advice is to speak softly but carry big stick
and when the time is right use it.
This could result in the pied piper (Red Len) leading the BASSA faithful on a march to the Job Centre.
My advice is to speak softly but carry big stick
and when the time is right use it.
This could result in the pied piper (Red Len) leading the BASSA faithful on a march to the Job Centre.
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Originally Posted by Better by Boat
I would not expect BA to do too much in the short term and just let BASSA \ Unite play their hand. If things fall well for BA (e.g. succesful court action against the Unions) then they will hold all the cards and can decide then how best to play them.
Except that I do not expect BA to go to court, but merely to tell Unite that they believe the strikes related and therefore unprotected and leave Unite with the problem.
If they then strike BA can suspend any strikers and choose what to do at their leisure while running a full service at LGW, LCY and LHR LH. The strike will very quickly collapse as BASSA members hear that strikers are all being suspended.
BASSA have offered up on a plate the dream solution to BA at every opportunity, one could not imagine a more incompetent set of union leaders (sorry wrong word), representatives.
They have replaced the Australian cricket team in my view in the joke:
Q. what do you call a BASSA rep with a stock cube
A. A laughing stock
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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At the end of the day BA do not have to go to court for anything! They can simply deal with strikers and wait for industrial tribunals some years down the line to defend themselves on the basis that they believed the strike was unprotected!
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@ Top Bunk .. a neat summary.
Time to find out how stupid BASSA/Unite/Militant CC can be.
As a pre-booked pax, I have no concerns. BA will deliver, and the Union[s] will look ever more stupid as their efforts achieve zilch.
Sadly, I do find it difficult to smile at BA CC these days. However, they have brought that on themselves, whether or not they are actually activists or just stupid. I pay their wages through my fares, so I really don't care very much ... just do what you're supposed to do, and I'll complain to BA [with personal details] if you don't. Regardless of whether you're a potential striker or not ....
... And YOU have made me feel like that ... pirrocks.
Time to find out how stupid BASSA/Unite/Militant CC can be.
As a pre-booked pax, I have no concerns. BA will deliver, and the Union[s] will look ever more stupid as their efforts achieve zilch.
Sadly, I do find it difficult to smile at BA CC these days. However, they have brought that on themselves, whether or not they are actually activists or just stupid. I pay their wages through my fares, so I really don't care very much ... just do what you're supposed to do, and I'll complain to BA [with personal details] if you don't. Regardless of whether you're a potential striker or not ....
... And YOU have made me feel like that ... pirrocks.
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The reason why BA (I think) will go to court is to sue Unite for losses incurred on the basis that this strike is related to the last. And I think they will do this first before they take any action against striking cabin crew.
It doesn't close any doors to them with regard to dealing with strikers but it does mean that if they win against Unite then they know that they have all options open to them in dealing with the strikers with little chance of any future action against BA being successful.
And I think it will be less damaging to the company to take the Union to court rather than to immediately sack strikers. But if the strike is deemed "illegal" (ie the strikes are linked), I suspect any public fallout from sacking strikers after that would be less. Just personal opinion.
BA could potentially have their cake and eat it - having Unite fund the removal of the strikers from BA.
It doesn't close any doors to them with regard to dealing with strikers but it does mean that if they win against Unite then they know that they have all options open to them in dealing with the strikers with little chance of any future action against BA being successful.
And I think it will be less damaging to the company to take the Union to court rather than to immediately sack strikers. But if the strike is deemed "illegal" (ie the strikes are linked), I suspect any public fallout from sacking strikers after that would be less. Just personal opinion.
BA could potentially have their cake and eat it - having Unite fund the removal of the strikers from BA.
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Indeed ... unhappy days ahead.
I still retain a small degree of sympathy for the lemmings, though. Are these the people who are 'primarily or our safety' ? Scary.
I still retain a small degree of sympathy for the lemmings, though. Are these the people who are 'primarily or our safety' ? Scary.
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I dunno, BBB. Mr. Walsh has often said he has no problems working with Unite--only with BASSA.
As an industrial relations consultant, I would never advise a client like BA to destroy its working relationship with Unite just to end a problem with their sub-group BASSA.
If Mr. Walsh damaged Unite badly with a law suit for damages, he in effect would be damaging his own employees and taking their money they paid in dues, thousands of whom belong to Unite as part of their other negotiating groups (who have all reached agreement with BA on their own staff and pay reductions.)
That wouldn't do BA any good, nor solve the BASSA problem....
BA has a problem with a number of its cabin crew employees and BASSA. So they will probably focus on that problem. Not punishing the parent organization who did its best to come to an agreement--which BASSA reps refused to present to their membership for a vote (as did CC89.)
Mr. Walsh knows that BASSA also called the strike last time when Unite had not done so, seemingly behind their backs. If I recall BASSA called the strike, which I believe they have a legal right to do on their own, even though Unite was trying to do further negotiating at the time and did not sanction it at that moment.
So in a way Unite has done what it seems is in their purview so far. But BASSA/CC89 are the recalcitrants.
As an industrial relations consultant, I would never advise a client like BA to destroy its working relationship with Unite just to end a problem with their sub-group BASSA.
If Mr. Walsh damaged Unite badly with a law suit for damages, he in effect would be damaging his own employees and taking their money they paid in dues, thousands of whom belong to Unite as part of their other negotiating groups (who have all reached agreement with BA on their own staff and pay reductions.)
That wouldn't do BA any good, nor solve the BASSA problem....
BA has a problem with a number of its cabin crew employees and BASSA. So they will probably focus on that problem. Not punishing the parent organization who did its best to come to an agreement--which BASSA reps refused to present to their membership for a vote (as did CC89.)
Mr. Walsh knows that BASSA also called the strike last time when Unite had not done so, seemingly behind their backs. If I recall BASSA called the strike, which I believe they have a legal right to do on their own, even though Unite was trying to do further negotiating at the time and did not sanction it at that moment.
So in a way Unite has done what it seems is in their purview so far. But BASSA/CC89 are the recalcitrants.
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Not so sure with Unite - the relationship was with TW, not LM. And TW has ultimately failed to deliver anyway. I think TW shaking hands and then washing them has already done the damage.
Hitting Unite would help solve the BASSA problem as the follow up of sacking strikers would mean BASSA getting close to derecognition. And it might make Unite take a greater interest in BASSAs activities.
All conjecture. Sad day for all at BA. Good luck to Betty Girl et al who want to work for the company.
Hitting Unite would help solve the BASSA problem as the follow up of sacking strikers would mean BASSA getting close to derecognition. And it might make Unite take a greater interest in BASSAs activities.
All conjecture. Sad day for all at BA. Good luck to Betty Girl et al who want to work for the company.
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I concur ...
Is there any relationship at all, now?
It seems to me, from reading assorted Boards, that WW has been royally shafted by the TUs at ever step. Agreements suddenly rejected, that sort of thing? Is it any wonder that he really doesn't care what the TU "Barons" say any more?
I sincerely hope there are some low-level discussions going on to try and save this ridiculous situation.
Not so sure with Unite - the relationship was with TW, not LM. And TW has ultimately failed to deliver anyway. I think TW shaking hands and then washing them has already done the damage.
It seems to me, from reading assorted Boards, that WW has been royally shafted by the TUs at ever step. Agreements suddenly rejected, that sort of thing? Is it any wonder that he really doesn't care what the TU "Barons" say any more?
I sincerely hope there are some low-level discussions going on to try and save this ridiculous situation.
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All true, BBB.
But the gist of my concern was that by hitting Unite financially for damages, no matter how valid, BA hits the pockets and the union of thousands of its employees who have supported BA as volunteers during IA and also by coming to new agreements that saved BA money.
BA might be seen punishing its other Unite employees and for that matter all Unite employees from all companies as well as BA, for the actions of a few at BA--the subgroup BASSA. And they need to keep their other employees onside at present as they may go into another disruption.
That's all.
Though a nicely worded letter from BA's lawyers saying they will take "reasonable" actions in court if necessary to recover damages might be enough to do it, without actually going to court and costing innocent Unite members their hard earned dues contributions.
By the way, I loved the way Mr. Walsh straight talked calling BASSA "dysfunctional." Like they are the awful relative at the holiday dinner table.
But the gist of my concern was that by hitting Unite financially for damages, no matter how valid, BA hits the pockets and the union of thousands of its employees who have supported BA as volunteers during IA and also by coming to new agreements that saved BA money.
BA might be seen punishing its other Unite employees and for that matter all Unite employees from all companies as well as BA, for the actions of a few at BA--the subgroup BASSA. And they need to keep their other employees onside at present as they may go into another disruption.
That's all.
Though a nicely worded letter from BA's lawyers saying they will take "reasonable" actions in court if necessary to recover damages might be enough to do it, without actually going to court and costing innocent Unite members their hard earned dues contributions.
By the way, I loved the way Mr. Walsh straight talked calling BASSA "dysfunctional." Like they are the awful relative at the holiday dinner table.
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MPN11:
An interesting post. I presume part of it was just SLF venting, but it speaks volumes regarding our role in this adventure.
As customers we see, every time this drama spins up, Cabin Crew defined in the press as the coarse image of a woman walking around with men's undergarments and Mr. Walsh's image on the seat, raging, screaming faces....threats of 12 days of Christmas, strikes over the Wedding, Easter...
And we are told constantly "Don't judge us all on that basis". "We are not all like that". You wouldn't know it from the message that is being sent. The Cabin Crew members that will stand up and be counted for SLF are few and far between in the media.
From a customer approach it is rather blatant regarding which section has the greater voice. It may be through intimidation, bullying, or whatever, but they are still the "face" of BA.
An interesting post. I presume part of it was just SLF venting, but it speaks volumes regarding our role in this adventure.
As customers we see, every time this drama spins up, Cabin Crew defined in the press as the coarse image of a woman walking around with men's undergarments and Mr. Walsh's image on the seat, raging, screaming faces....threats of 12 days of Christmas, strikes over the Wedding, Easter...
And we are told constantly "Don't judge us all on that basis". "We are not all like that". You wouldn't know it from the message that is being sent. The Cabin Crew members that will stand up and be counted for SLF are few and far between in the media.
From a customer approach it is rather blatant regarding which section has the greater voice. It may be through intimidation, bullying, or whatever, but they are still the "face" of BA.