BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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BetterbyBoat:
I will agree that you do have a point.
At this point in time its hard for any member of BA Cabin Crew to be able to say "I just don't know what to do?" or for others to use the excuse that they are being mislead by BASSA.
Initially I believe that the argument could have been made that many Cabin Crew were simply caught up in the storm but enough time has passed for all Cabin Crew to have had the opportunity to do the research and understand exactly what the repercussions of their actions may be.
I expect a vote in favor of strike action and more cries for BA to come back to the table to "negotiate". Will be watching with interest how BA responds to the militant demands. Its not as if Unite/Amicus/BASSA have given them much to work with. Part of me, the non business side, almost hopes they don't bother with negotiations and simply forge ahead until the Cabin Crew submit more realistic proposals.
I will agree that you do have a point.
At this point in time its hard for any member of BA Cabin Crew to be able to say "I just don't know what to do?" or for others to use the excuse that they are being mislead by BASSA.
Initially I believe that the argument could have been made that many Cabin Crew were simply caught up in the storm but enough time has passed for all Cabin Crew to have had the opportunity to do the research and understand exactly what the repercussions of their actions may be.
I expect a vote in favor of strike action and more cries for BA to come back to the table to "negotiate". Will be watching with interest how BA responds to the militant demands. Its not as if Unite/Amicus/BASSA have given them much to work with. Part of me, the non business side, almost hopes they don't bother with negotiations and simply forge ahead until the Cabin Crew submit more realistic proposals.
Last edited by Diplome; 21st Jan 2011 at 15:07.
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It should be due any minute now. The ballot closed at midday. Unless the expected yes vote announcement has been delayed by "heated" discussions between Mssrs McCluskey and Holley over whether to call a strike.
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from bloomberg:
By Alan Jones
January 21 (Press Association) -- British Airways was
facing the threat of a fresh wave of strikes by its cabin crew
tonight after they voted heavily in favour of more walkouts in
their bitter dispute with the airline.
Unite said its members voted by 5,751 to 1,579 to take
further industrial action following 22 days of strikes last
year which cost the airline more than £150 million.
The union pulled back from naming strike dates and will
have to give seven days' notice of any action.
Unite's new leader, Len McCluskey, said: "For the fourth
time in 13 months, British Airways cabin crew have voted
overwhelmingly in support of their union and expressed their
dissatisfaction with management behaviour. Indeed, the turnout
and the majority on this occasion are much greater than in the
last ballot.
"Surely BA management must now wake up and listen to the
voice of their skilled and dedicated employees.
"This dispute will be resolved by negotiation, not
litigation or confrontation, and it is to negotiation that BA management should now apply itself. We are ready."
News of the voting figures was revealed as the company
completed its merger with Spanish carrier Iberia to create a
new holding company, International Consolidated Airlines Group
(IAG).
The bitter dispute started more than a year ago over cost-
cutting but now centres on the removal of travel concessions
from workers who went on strike, and disciplinary action taken
against Unite members.
-0- Jan/21/2011 16:17 GMT
By Alan Jones
January 21 (Press Association) -- British Airways was
facing the threat of a fresh wave of strikes by its cabin crew
tonight after they voted heavily in favour of more walkouts in
their bitter dispute with the airline.
Unite said its members voted by 5,751 to 1,579 to take
further industrial action following 22 days of strikes last
year which cost the airline more than £150 million.
The union pulled back from naming strike dates and will
have to give seven days' notice of any action.
Unite's new leader, Len McCluskey, said: "For the fourth
time in 13 months, British Airways cabin crew have voted
overwhelmingly in support of their union and expressed their
dissatisfaction with management behaviour. Indeed, the turnout
and the majority on this occasion are much greater than in the
last ballot.
"Surely BA management must now wake up and listen to the
voice of their skilled and dedicated employees.
"This dispute will be resolved by negotiation, not
litigation or confrontation, and it is to negotiation that BA management should now apply itself. We are ready."
News of the voting figures was revealed as the company
completed its merger with Spanish carrier Iberia to create a
new holding company, International Consolidated Airlines Group
(IAG).
The bitter dispute started more than a year ago over cost-
cutting but now centres on the removal of travel concessions
from workers who went on strike, and disciplinary action taken
against Unite members.
-0- Jan/21/2011 16:17 GMT
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Another story on Bloomberg says they had a 75% turnout.
But their numbers are 7,330 out of 10,220 voted = 71.7% Great Maths!
But 56% of those who got papers voted for action.
But their numbers are 7,330 out of 10,220 voted = 71.7% Great Maths!
But 56% of those who got papers voted for action.
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0.0 _ Invalid vote (conducted by UNITE?) 16 November - 14 December 2009
_____________________Total__Yes____No___Spoiled__Not returned
Number of ballot papers 12780__ 9514 ___770____2______2494
Percentages__________100%_-_74.0%__6.0%__0.01%___19.5%
1.0 _ Valid vote (conducted by the Electoral Reform Service) 25 January - 22 February 2010
_____________________Total__Yes____No___Spoiled__Not returned
Number of ballot papers_11691_ 7482 __1789___11______2409
Percentages__________100%_-_64.0%_15.3%__0.1%___20.6%
2.0 _ New Contract offered by BA. reported by the Electoral Reform Service on 20 July 2010
_____________________Total___Yes___No___Spoiled_Not returned
Number of ballot papers_11311__1686__3419___3______6203
Percentages__________ 100%_-15.0%_30.2%_-0.03%__54.8%
3.0 _ Strike Ballot 21 December 2010 - 21 January 2011
_____________________Total___Yes___No___Spoiled_Not returned
Number of ballot papers_10220__5751__1579___5______2885
Percentages__________ 100%_-56.3%_15.5%_-0.05%__28.2%
References
0.1 _ paragraph 4 of:-___link
0.2 _Total number of ballot paper is stated in:-___ link
1.1 _ paragraph 8 of:-___link
2.1 _ link
3.1 _-link
_____________________Total__Yes____No___Spoiled__Not returned
Number of ballot papers 12780__ 9514 ___770____2______2494
Percentages__________100%_-_74.0%__6.0%__0.01%___19.5%
1.0 _ Valid vote (conducted by the Electoral Reform Service) 25 January - 22 February 2010
_____________________Total__Yes____No___Spoiled__Not returned
Number of ballot papers_11691_ 7482 __1789___11______2409
Percentages__________100%_-_64.0%_15.3%__0.1%___20.6%
2.0 _ New Contract offered by BA. reported by the Electoral Reform Service on 20 July 2010
_____________________Total___Yes___No___Spoiled_Not returned
Number of ballot papers_11311__1686__3419___3______6203
Percentages__________ 100%_-15.0%_30.2%_-0.03%__54.8%
3.0 _ Strike Ballot 21 December 2010 - 21 January 2011
_____________________Total___Yes___No___Spoiled_Not returned
Number of ballot papers_10220__5751__1579___5______2885
Percentages__________ 100%_-56.3%_15.5%_-0.05%__28.2%
References
0.1 _ paragraph 4 of:-___link
0.2 _Total number of ballot paper is stated in:-___ link
1.1 _ paragraph 8 of:-___link
2.1 _ link
3.1 _-link
Last edited by notlangley; 21st Jan 2011 at 15:49.
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So, the dispute continues, therefore no elections for new BASSA reps, therefore friends Malone and Holley etc continue as union officials.
As per a phrase often used here "You couldn't make it up".
As per a phrase often used here "You couldn't make it up".
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There are cabin crew who are not members of Unite._ How many are they?
It seems to me that those who voted to strike (i.e. 5751) are now for the first time less than half of the working group.
It seems to me that those who voted to strike (i.e. 5751) are now for the first time less than half of the working group.
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No two ways about it though, that is a pretty large number of yes votes. Sure, it might well be only half of all cabin crew, but the fact remains that after everything that's happened over the last year, nearly 6,000 cabin crew voted for further industrial action.
Astonishing really.
Astonishing really.
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Sad sad day
Hi everyone
First time poster although long time lurker. Really surprised but more sadened at this result. Like most others, I expected a vote for IA but at the end of the day, more than 7500 cabin crew feel strongly enough about what is happening to vote to strike against their company. There have to be a LOT of intelligent, committed crew amongst this number.
While I also feel like most posters on this thread about the current situation, I expected that so much good information and advice about what is really happening has been available to cc from so many sources, I cannot believe so many of them still feel so strongly that only their union is telling them the whole truth. Used to work for BA (not cc) and found them a fantastic employer so perhaps why feel so sad today.
Oops sorry 7500 should be 5700 - dyslexia rules ko - sorry.
First time poster although long time lurker. Really surprised but more sadened at this result. Like most others, I expected a vote for IA but at the end of the day, more than 7500 cabin crew feel strongly enough about what is happening to vote to strike against their company. There have to be a LOT of intelligent, committed crew amongst this number.
While I also feel like most posters on this thread about the current situation, I expected that so much good information and advice about what is really happening has been available to cc from so many sources, I cannot believe so many of them still feel so strongly that only their union is telling them the whole truth. Used to work for BA (not cc) and found them a fantastic employer so perhaps why feel so sad today.
Oops sorry 7500 should be 5700 - dyslexia rules ko - sorry.
Last edited by maeboyce; 21st Jan 2011 at 16:27. Reason: wrong figure inserted in error
I remain amazed that such a high proportion (over 25%!) of what I had previously considered to be a reasonably intelligent workforce apparently lack the werewithal to have a say in their own futures.
One point worthy of note - if the assumption is made that the ballot papers were sent to bona-fide union members only, then between the January '10 vote and this one the union has 1,471 fewer members.
Even if these members had all remained in the union and voted no, Yes would still have been the majority. Don't underestimate the strength of feeling that Malone, Holley & Co have managed to instill in more than half their members. Impressive feat whatever you may think of them.
One point worthy of note - if the assumption is made that the ballot papers were sent to bona-fide union members only, then between the January '10 vote and this one the union has 1,471 fewer members.
Even if these members had all remained in the union and voted no, Yes would still have been the majority. Don't underestimate the strength of feeling that Malone, Holley & Co have managed to instill in more than half their members. Impressive feat whatever you may think of them.
Hi maeboyce, welcome to the forum.
One point about your post you might like to revisit:
.
Not quite correct, 5,751 CC voted for strike action. Still a significant number though that does not change the point you made in your post.
One point about your post you might like to revisit:
more than 7500 cabin crew feel strongly enough about what is happening to vote to strike against their company
Not quite correct, 5,751 CC voted for strike action. Still a significant number though that does not change the point you made in your post.
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Mariner9:
Agreed, though if there is one thing we have learned through this dispute its that Cabin Crew will vote "yes" and then come to work.
Voting "yes" is obviously viewed to some as a no cost way of protest.
Let's see how BA respond. My hope is that they simply leave Mr. Holley and others to complain amongst themselves for a while.
BA needs to readdress their approach on Mixed Fleet in some ways and start weeding out in whatever reasonable way possible those that will never be satisified.
Agreed, though if there is one thing we have learned through this dispute its that Cabin Crew will vote "yes" and then come to work.
Voting "yes" is obviously viewed to some as a no cost way of protest.
Let's see how BA respond. My hope is that they simply leave Mr. Holley and others to complain amongst themselves for a while.
BA needs to readdress their approach on Mixed Fleet in some ways and start weeding out in whatever reasonable way possible those that will never be satisified.
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Not having seen the ballot paper, can anyone comment on the actual wording? In other words, will a strke, if called, be legal. Secondly, if a legal strike is called, will the long game, which BA has obviously been playing, pay off, and allow them to get rid of the hardliners?
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maeboyce - "more than 7500 cabin crew feel strongly enough about what is happening to vote to strike against their company"
.... where did you get these numbers from. It was 5751 who voted for strike action out of over 10000 balloted ... approx 1700 less votes for strike action now than in Feb 2010 and precisely what was achieved last time? Especially as BA now have Mixed Fleet \ New Fleet as well as a lot more, much better trained VCC. BA will be aware of just how many are likely to support the strike when dates are announced and crew make themselves available or not. And I suspect they will play a waiting game until then.
Mariner 9 - "I remain amazed that such a high proportion (over 25%!) of what I had previously considered to be a reasonably intelligent workforce apparently lack the werewithal to have a say in their own futures."
Betty Girl makes the point on the CC thread that she thinks that a lot of these had left the Union and hence didn't vote. But I think it would be a fair guess that very few of the non-voting cabin crew will actually go on strike.
.... where did you get these numbers from. It was 5751 who voted for strike action out of over 10000 balloted ... approx 1700 less votes for strike action now than in Feb 2010 and precisely what was achieved last time? Especially as BA now have Mixed Fleet \ New Fleet as well as a lot more, much better trained VCC. BA will be aware of just how many are likely to support the strike when dates are announced and crew make themselves available or not. And I suspect they will play a waiting game until then.
Mariner 9 - "I remain amazed that such a high proportion (over 25%!) of what I had previously considered to be a reasonably intelligent workforce apparently lack the werewithal to have a say in their own futures."
Betty Girl makes the point on the CC thread that she thinks that a lot of these had left the Union and hence didn't vote. But I think it would be a fair guess that very few of the non-voting cabin crew will actually go on strike.
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maeboyce
I expected a vote for IA but at the end of the day, more than 7500 cabin crew feel strongly enough about what is happening to vote to strike against their company.
By all means go on strike. BA & it's pax will hardly notice the difference.
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On the basis that we flew during the May strikes, and apart from a bit of rescheduling, we went to the USA and back again ... I really don't see a future problem for the SLF.
How the 'activist' CC regard this is, of course entirely up to them. Frankly, I actually don't care. Teddy has long since departed the cot.
How the 'activist' CC regard this is, of course entirely up to them. Frankly, I actually don't care. Teddy has long since departed the cot.