BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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From 'THE LATEST NEWS UPDATES'
What do we want?
Everything!!
When do we want it?
Now!!
What do we offer them?
Nothing!!
What inspiring words - don't they make your heart beat a little faster?
And they're back to feckin' GUARANTEES again!
Where do I sign up to write the book of this dispute? Do you think I ought to wait until it ends before I get started? Better not - I am sixty-three after all.
Roger
Furthermore we are not prepared to accept any offer to settle this dispute on the basis that British Airways ONLY agree to the "four no cost items". The current agreement in any guise is unacceptable to us and we believe to the community as a whole.
Why, you might ask? Because it is built on quick sand and has no guarantees for our future. The offer does not adequately deal with the reasons why the dispute arose in the first place. To add insult to injury, it also seeks to restrict and deprive you of your statutory rights to litigation against an increasingly unreasonable employer.
We do however believe that the four items form a good basis for discussions to commence with the involvement of the reps and will clear the decks of all the diversionary nonsense that British Airways has chosen to introduce into the dispute.
Why, you might ask? Because it is built on quick sand and has no guarantees for our future. The offer does not adequately deal with the reasons why the dispute arose in the first place. To add insult to injury, it also seeks to restrict and deprive you of your statutory rights to litigation against an increasingly unreasonable employer.
We do however believe that the four items form a good basis for discussions to commence with the involvement of the reps and will clear the decks of all the diversionary nonsense that British Airways has chosen to introduce into the dispute.
Everything!!
When do we want it?
Now!!
What do we offer them?
Nothing!!
What inspiring words - don't they make your heart beat a little faster?
And they're back to feckin' GUARANTEES again!
Where do I sign up to write the book of this dispute? Do you think I ought to wait until it ends before I get started? Better not - I am sixty-three after all.
Roger
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Interesting listening to the TW interview on PM where he talks about his "5,500 to 6,000 members who have lost their staff travel". Given that he is exaggerating on other issues throughout this interview then I guess this confirms BA's figure 4,963 who originally went on strike to be correct.
So much for BASSA and its insistence there were 7,000+ strikers based on strike pay claims!
When will these guys stop lying or at the very least be held to the same standards of truthfulness to their members and the public at large that BA and its management are held?
So much for BASSA and its insistence there were 7,000+ strikers based on strike pay claims!
When will these guys stop lying or at the very least be held to the same standards of truthfulness to their members and the public at large that BA and its management are held?
Last edited by AV Flyer; 29th Nov 2010 at 22:04.
Paxing All Over The World
... and has no guarantees for our future.
ANY employee in the world can find themselves with no job. I do not like that, as I have been made redundant myself - at short notice - and seen it happen to others. But that is 21st century. Do I think that 'capitalism' [generic term] the best solution? Not necessarily but it is how the UK functions. Pretending that you can guarantee jobs 'into the future' is utter nonsense.
After all this, and saying that they WANT to settle the dispute - when BA want to go to ACAS:
We are gravely concerned that as a result of the press conference today, British Airways have conceded to meet with Unite next Monday under the auspices of ACAS.
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If only through negotiation at the start, both sides of the cabin crew community had ensured that any new contract worked together with existing staff. It would have been a pure natural wastage situation then. I imagine the SOSR dismissal defense is being drawn up as we speculate.
I only hope that the union that I pay my subs to has established that the reasons quoted are new and not linked to the previous action. On the face of it, I would say they are, but that will be of no surprise to most of you
I say that because none of the items are about imposition, but are consequences of industrial action. I am glad I am not testing it however.
I only hope that the union that I pay my subs to has established that the reasons quoted are new and not linked to the previous action. On the face of it, I would say they are, but that will be of no surprise to most of you
I say that because none of the items are about imposition, but are consequences of industrial action. I am glad I am not testing it however.
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Can't argue with any of that Baggers. If it was a political battle, then the announcement today coinciding with the merger news scored some share price points and made the statement that the unrest is not a done deal, regardless of the potential success of any ballot.
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Thank you, BASSA
I suppose I really ought to offer my profound and grateful thanks to BASSA, CC89, UNITE, Duncan Holley, Liz Whateverhernameis et al. Over the last year and a half, the portrayal of their antics has been a great source of amusement to me.
Whatever will I do for light pre-bedtime reading if (not "when") this gross absurdity is ever settled I do not know. The complete mismanagement of the benighted cabin crews' grievance, from its beginning, through the sojourns at Bedfont, until the latest foolishness is unparalleled.
The briefings and bulletins emanating from the keyboard of Duncan Holley beggar belief in their lack of credulity and and their sheer stupidity. There has been a piss poor effort at media management: the flight attendant sitting with that oh-so smug look on his face while sitting in his Beamer and drinking Pimms is just one example that comes to mind. The radio interviews with "aggrieved flight attendants" who turned out to be none other than Duncan Holley is an another.
Meanwhile, I continue to back BA - by booking as many journeys on BA as possible. Meanwhile, the people who should be supporting BA to the hilt - the disgruntled and appallingly poorly led cabin crew - are considering yet more industrial action. How much longer can they hold out?
On the other hand, if working for British Airways is as terrible as we have been told by more than one diehard flight attendant (who vigorously demands that she or he remains anonymous) why didn't they take voluntary redundancy when it was still available, put the windfall away in their bank accounts, and seek more amenable employment? Why are they so doggedly hanging on?
Lots of questions there; let's see a few answers.
Whatever will I do for light pre-bedtime reading if (not "when") this gross absurdity is ever settled I do not know. The complete mismanagement of the benighted cabin crews' grievance, from its beginning, through the sojourns at Bedfont, until the latest foolishness is unparalleled.
The briefings and bulletins emanating from the keyboard of Duncan Holley beggar belief in their lack of credulity and and their sheer stupidity. There has been a piss poor effort at media management: the flight attendant sitting with that oh-so smug look on his face while sitting in his Beamer and drinking Pimms is just one example that comes to mind. The radio interviews with "aggrieved flight attendants" who turned out to be none other than Duncan Holley is an another.
Meanwhile, I continue to back BA - by booking as many journeys on BA as possible. Meanwhile, the people who should be supporting BA to the hilt - the disgruntled and appallingly poorly led cabin crew - are considering yet more industrial action. How much longer can they hold out?
On the other hand, if working for British Airways is as terrible as we have been told by more than one diehard flight attendant (who vigorously demands that she or he remains anonymous) why didn't they take voluntary redundancy when it was still available, put the windfall away in their bank accounts, and seek more amenable employment? Why are they so doggedly hanging on?
Lots of questions there; let's see a few answers.
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Mariner9
I think the wording maybe different -did BA offer that the arbitrators decision was final and binding?
Unite and British Airways agree that if any employee who has been subject to disciplinary action (in connection with the current dispute) by British Airways and whose name appears in the confidential annex to this agreement (a 'Relevant Employee') decides to bring an Employment Tribunal claim for unfair dismissal, then as an alternative to Employment Tribunal litigation, that claim will ordinarily be dealt with under the Acas arbitration scheme for the resolution of unfair dismissal disputes.
British Airways and Unite agree that the Arbitrator's decision will be binding and before entering the Acas arbitration scheme they will enter into an agreement to this effect, to which the Relevant Employee will also be a party.
Any arbitration hearing will take place only after British Airways' internal appeals procedure has been exhausted. In any such case British Airways will have the right to approve or reject the arbitrator proposed.
British Airways and Unite agree that the Arbitrator's decision will be binding and before entering the Acas arbitration scheme they will enter into an agreement to this effect, to which the Relevant Employee will also be a party.
Any arbitration hearing will take place only after British Airways' internal appeals procedure has been exhausted. In any such case British Airways will have the right to approve or reject the arbitrator proposed.
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baggersup
I wonder if they are doing themselves in by doing another strike, now that Mixed Fleet is here. How many are up and trained now? More in the pipeline for coming on line by January/February?
That could cover a fair number of Airbus's over any strike period, in addition to VCC's and increasing number of strike breakers (who wants to lose ST again?!)
I agree all BA need to do is engage with their lawyers, and sit back and wait.... the end of this is getting nearer....
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I've just listened to TW on the radio link, right at the end, he says BA's last offer which was 'reluctantly' acceptable to himself and his shop stewards, was not acceptable to the CC in general!! Yet CC in general have not been allowed to vote on it - so how does he know?
I've generally had some time for TW, I think left to himself he would have agreed a sensible deal with BA, but he can't control BASSA/CC89. But that statement was so blatently wrong, was it just foot in mouth in a live situation, or does he really think he can get away with that lie ?
Also, BA is back in profit due to the sacrifices made by the rest of BA staff, who in large part are also Unite members, including my husband. Why should some Unite members at BA be expected to pay for better conditions for other Unite members who happen to be CC?
I've generally had some time for TW, I think left to himself he would have agreed a sensible deal with BA, but he can't control BASSA/CC89. But that statement was so blatently wrong, was it just foot in mouth in a live situation, or does he really think he can get away with that lie ?
Also, BA is back in profit due to the sacrifices made by the rest of BA staff, who in large part are also Unite members, including my husband. Why should some Unite members at BA be expected to pay for better conditions for other Unite members who happen to be CC?
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I've booked BA Longhaul flights next Easter because the price that BA offered me couldn't be beaten and also because I know that BA can guarantee their longhaul operation even if there is IA. (roughly 300 pounds cheaper than the deal offered with their closest UK competitor - probably around 800 pounds cheaper if you add internal uk flights onto the competitors deal...)
So it was a no brainer. Not a case of patriotism or being anti BASSA but making a sound financial decision for my family.
So it was a no brainer. Not a case of patriotism or being anti BASSA but making a sound financial decision for my family.
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TW Contradictions!
It is interesting that TW is trying to suggest that the "original dispute where BA imposed changes on the union has well since been over" 12:03 here : BBC iPlayer - PM: 29/11/2010
Has it?!!
we see here the Union starting to make their case that this ballot will be a "new" one, with subsequent protected IA.
Such a shame then, when we think back to during the last strike, when TW was on television saying to the press that the strike would be over today if Staff travel was returned!
This new ballot is going to have more holes in it than a tea bag!....
Has it?!!
we see here the Union starting to make their case that this ballot will be a "new" one, with subsequent protected IA.
Such a shame then, when we think back to during the last strike, when TW was on television saying to the press that the strike would be over today if Staff travel was returned!
This new ballot is going to have more holes in it than a tea bag!....
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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So if the original dispute is over, should BASSA be holding elections as they were delayed until the end of that dispute by a vote at Kempton Park?
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Just an Observer
Damn! I forgot to mention that JaO, you're right. 
He did say exactly that, but I was still pondering his admission that the IA had achieved nothing. Quite extraordinary.
Furthermore, I was just thinking about how all the other Unions and departments at BA must feel about this situation? It is a massive arrogance on BASSAs behalf. They seem to think the Baggage Handlers, the Tug Drivers, the Engineers and all the other tens of thousands of staff - who did all their negotiating before last June and have been doing their part ever since - are simply going to sit back and watch while BA rolls over, winds back the clock fifteen months and says; 'Okay, what do you want?'
Not only an arrogance, but an unthinking, uncaring and unforgivable insult.
Roger.
He did say exactly that, but I was still pondering his admission that the IA had achieved nothing. Quite extraordinary. Furthermore, I was just thinking about how all the other Unions and departments at BA must feel about this situation? It is a massive arrogance on BASSAs behalf. They seem to think the Baggage Handlers, the Tug Drivers, the Engineers and all the other tens of thousands of staff - who did all their negotiating before last June and have been doing their part ever since - are simply going to sit back and watch while BA rolls over, winds back the clock fifteen months and says; 'Okay, what do you want?'
Not only an arrogance, but an unthinking, uncaring and unforgivable insult.
Roger.
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West Lakes
So if the original dispute is over, should BASSA be holding elections as they were delayed until the end of that dispute by a vote at Kempton Park?
Roger.
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and here's some video evidence!
So Tony Woodley is trying to pretend that we have a new dispute....
well, not according to this video from 23rd May 2010 we dont!
YouTube - Unite: Strike Will End If Travel Perks Return (British Airways cabin crew strike)
Here we have TW talking about negotations to end the dispute... including discipliniaries involving ACAS, and reinstatement of travel perks!
Sound familiar?
One word is looming folks...... "Unprotected"!
well, not according to this video from 23rd May 2010 we dont!
YouTube - Unite: Strike Will End If Travel Perks Return (British Airways cabin crew strike)
Here we have TW talking about negotations to end the dispute... including discipliniaries involving ACAS, and reinstatement of travel perks!
Sound familiar?
One word is looming folks...... "Unprotected"!
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One word is looming folks...... "Unprotected"!
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Though if you sack those who go out illegally on the first day (experience speaking), then that's usually the last day of a strike.
My personal belief is that BA won’t dismiss staff for striking, partly because BA has got itself into such a position where it doesn’t matter too much, operationally, if they do strike and partly because my own observations of the company is that they are actually quite a decent employer.
Sure they are a huge employer which results in a less flexibility than you might get in a much smaller firm where the boss really does know you, but compared to others of their size they are very good indeed.
This strike ballot is solely about revenge. Thats all the BASSA/CC89 sacked/suspended reps want - the ability to hurt BA.
The only specific complaint regarding the current BA offer on the latest CC89 missive bemoans the loss of the chance of retribution through the courts. Never mind that they had flimsy cases, at least it was a chance to give BA a bloody nose. The fact that the deal was superb offer in the circumstances, providing income protection and job security for their members appears to be irrelevant. The ballot on this offer was clearly pulled in case the CC finally recognised a good deal when they saw it.
This dispute therefore is not about disgruntled cabin crew. It is mainly about disgruntled ex-cabin crew. Not a lot BA can do about that really if DH & Co refuse to leave BASSA and the CC are too ignorant of the situation and/or apathetic to remove them.
Sack the strikers maybe - but its hardly going to improve the situation. In fact I suspect that is exactly what DH and Co want to happen in attempt to garner public support against the "evil" BA management.
Bad news for those CC's foolish enough to swallow the union rhetoric. And sadly I suspect they will be in the majority of those CC's with sufficient backbone to actually make a decision and cast a vote.
The only specific complaint regarding the current BA offer on the latest CC89 missive bemoans the loss of the chance of retribution through the courts. Never mind that they had flimsy cases, at least it was a chance to give BA a bloody nose. The fact that the deal was superb offer in the circumstances, providing income protection and job security for their members appears to be irrelevant. The ballot on this offer was clearly pulled in case the CC finally recognised a good deal when they saw it.
This dispute therefore is not about disgruntled cabin crew. It is mainly about disgruntled ex-cabin crew. Not a lot BA can do about that really if DH & Co refuse to leave BASSA and the CC are too ignorant of the situation and/or apathetic to remove them.
Sack the strikers maybe - but its hardly going to improve the situation. In fact I suspect that is exactly what DH and Co want to happen in attempt to garner public support against the "evil"
BA management. Bad news for those CC's foolish enough to swallow the union rhetoric. And sadly I suspect they will be in the majority of those CC's with sufficient backbone to actually make a decision and cast a vote.
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So Tony Woodley is trying to pretend that we have a new dispute....
1. Is TW playing both ends of BASSA against the middle?
2. Is BA keeping quiet to watch how deep both unions dig their own holes?
3. Is Unite expecting BA to push BASSA in, or will they wait for the ballot and then push both in?
Either way TW has made an almighty blunder! So have DH and the reps.
I would like to see a court, for that is where this is heading, ridicule and tell BASSA how it is, and to tell Unite to behave in a professional manner and deal with BASSA with a threat to cut them adrift. BASSA is being led that way - as we speak!
Wishful thinking but it does tickle the fancy!