BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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How many members to BASSA actually have?
On reading the other thread you wonder if BASSA have any idea how many members they have.
Surely for any ballot they should have an audited membership list.
Surely for any ballot they should have an audited membership list.
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You only have to read Juan Tripp's message #844 on the other thread to realise what disarray the membership details are in! It is fine getting an independent organisation to carry out the ballot, but if they are given duff information what credence does it give the result?
Another injunction coming do you think? Or will the company responsible for running the ballot express doubts of the accuracy?
Another injunction coming do you think? Or will the company responsible for running the ballot express doubts of the accuracy?
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@ leiard ... a nice thought, but from past evidence the list will have fully certified "Emmental" status, as noted on the CC thread 
As a completely unconcerned BA pax these days, I'm content to let BASSA rumble contentedly over the cliff. They have done "Stupid for Britain" often enough, and I suspect there will be more of the same. I just share some many other poster's views ... deep sympathy for the BA staff who have noticed the reality of life in UK these days, and still have to live and work in this awful Union-created mess.
As a completely unconcerned BA pax these days, I'm content to let BASSA rumble contentedly over the cliff. They have done "Stupid for Britain" often enough, and I suspect there will be more of the same. I just share some many other poster's views ... deep sympathy for the BA staff who have noticed the reality of life in UK these days, and still have to live and work in this awful Union-created mess.
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Call100
Apples and Oranges....Your missing the point...Today a secret, independent ballot now has to take place legally....Not all in the car park, hands in the air or else....
If you wish to have a different point of view, then fine. At least make it different to the point that was being made
If you wish to have a different point of view, then fine. At least make it different to the point that was being made
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Papillon
It is an interesting debate. In my opinion, the current system does not work effectively. One of the unfortunate results of collective bargaining, is that those that do not pay, benefit from the generally improved conditions that unionised groups achieve.
It works well when you have a large workforce, but only a handful of roles. It does need both parties to talk though. Most people accept when they sign up to work for a unionised employee, that their T&C's will be union negotiated and that fact will appear in the contract of employment. If that arrangement is not acceptable, then they should not accept the employment offer. It is only one more step to make the requirement to pay for that contractually agreed position and therefore be able to vote on any variation.
It works well when you have a large workforce, but only a handful of roles. It does need both parties to talk though. Most people accept when they sign up to work for a unionised employee, that their T&C's will be union negotiated and that fact will appear in the contract of employment. If that arrangement is not acceptable, then they should not accept the employment offer. It is only one more step to make the requirement to pay for that contractually agreed position and therefore be able to vote on any variation.
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Litebulbs, the reverse of that is that the non-unionised staff suffer when a union over-reaches itself, or acts unreasonably. I'm quite sure you'd be less than happy if a company that made much of its staff redundant following a strike solely chose union members. You really can't point out the benefits of freeloading a good union without equally pointing out the misery of suffering the consequences of a bad one - both without union membership.
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Papillon, luckily then the legislation that allows for protection of choice not to belong to a union, also protects those that are.
I am also sure that Unites biggest branch believes that it is a good union and that is because they at LHR, are often reminded that they have the best T&C's in the UK industry.
I am also sure that Unites biggest branch believes that it is a good union and that is because they at LHR, are often reminded that they have the best T&C's in the UK industry.
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Quite so. But to advocate a closed shop on that basis is to wilfully ignore the other side of that debate. You can't have that protection for union members without recognising that aspect.
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No, I'm not. I'm saying that to complain that people can freeload is to ignore the reality that non-union members suffer alongside union members too, even if they disagree with them. Unions still get it wrong even now. Factories still close because the unions push the management too hard. Why should the non-union members suffer for that? Yet they do. You can't have it both ways.
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I goes back to my point that until this dispute, if you joined the company in the name of this thread, you were signing up to collective bargaining as a contractual position.
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Correct. The point being that you signed up to the good stuff AND the bad stuff. That's a double edged sword, so you can't complain about non-union members getting the good stuff.
Put it this way, had BA responded to the dispute with 90 day notice, as they could have done, that would have affected non-union members too. And very angry they'd have been as well. Why should they then have to pay union dues to be badly represented?
Put it this way, had BA responded to the dispute with 90 day notice, as they could have done, that would have affected non-union members too. And very angry they'd have been as well. Why should they then have to pay union dues to be badly represented?
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Hard to argue that one, apart from SOSR (in my opinion) weighs very heavily on the side of the employer and as I said previously, how do you know that the majority of LHR BASSA members think that they have been poorly represented?
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Ah, now you're in the realms of philosophy - if they think they've been represented wonderfully but neutral observers see a dog's breakfast, who is right?
But the point about such an action on the part of the employer is that if falls on all staff members, even the "innocent" (you know what I mean) ones.
But the point about such an action on the part of the employer is that if falls on all staff members, even the "innocent" (you know what I mean) ones.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Of course the present situation could suggest that unions need to work harder to recruit and keep members.
Given the suggestions that Unite has lost members in more than one branch over this dispute suggests they got it wrong. (voting with feet)
Given the suggestions that Unite has lost members in more than one branch over this dispute suggests they got it wrong. (voting with feet)
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West Lakes
I was going to start with...
"you will always loose members when"
but I am not a politician. You are right of course and I am sure many lessons will be taken from this dispute, if and when it ends.
"you will always loose members when"
but I am not a politician. You are right of course and I am sure many lessons will be taken from this dispute, if and when it ends.
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Litebulbs
But the closed shop 2010+ would prevent that in as much as everyone is in it together?
