BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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Yes Lotpax I agree with your last posting._ But everyone has a different vista of the World._ I am limited by my view that within every individual is the wish for good for neighbours and strangers - but this wish coexists with an opportunist potential that results in the exploitation of others._ Most people will completely disagree and will helpfully explain that they themselves happen to be altruistic in nature (what a pity that do-gooder has become word of insult).
The quote from Mrs Justice Cox was to highlight that the fault was Unite and not BASSA._ This time last year Unite and BASSA were singing from the same page in the hymn book._ Since then, there was a sermon._ BASSA did not listen to the sermon._ But if the window-blind episode is anything to go by, Unite have understood the words and taken them back to their Chapel._ IMO 2011 will be a watershed for BASSA cabin crew - and non-BASSA cabin crew members need to be understanding and helpful.
The quote from Mrs Justice Cox was to highlight that the fault was Unite and not BASSA._ This time last year Unite and BASSA were singing from the same page in the hymn book._ Since then, there was a sermon._ BASSA did not listen to the sermon._ But if the window-blind episode is anything to go by, Unite have understood the words and taken them back to their Chapel._ IMO 2011 will be a watershed for BASSA cabin crew - and non-BASSA cabin crew members need to be understanding and helpful.
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As 'self loading freight', customer, passanger - in fact whatever you like to call me I have been reading this thread for what seems like forever.
I appreciate that the current 'dispute' affects many people differently - so let me tell you as one who is COMPLETELY outside of these events apart from being a potential customer how it affects me and my thoughts and opinions.
I travel a lot by air within Europe and I will NEVER use BA unless forced ever again. Over a longish period of time I have found the cabin crew to be arrogant and dismissive, to do the least required and to treat the customers as a 'have to be endured nuisance'.
I don't care whether they are members of BASSA, UNITE or the local church wives/husbands group, on our last 4 flights my wife and me have been made to feel as if we (and the other passangers) are merely an inconvenient annoyance.
I would not like to have to think of any crew member having to work in an unpleasant atmosphere - whatever their views, but perhaps some of them deserve it.
I look forward to the day when I can use BA again without wondering how unpleasant the experience will be.
Brocstar
I appreciate that the current 'dispute' affects many people differently - so let me tell you as one who is COMPLETELY outside of these events apart from being a potential customer how it affects me and my thoughts and opinions.
I travel a lot by air within Europe and I will NEVER use BA unless forced ever again. Over a longish period of time I have found the cabin crew to be arrogant and dismissive, to do the least required and to treat the customers as a 'have to be endured nuisance'.
I don't care whether they are members of BASSA, UNITE or the local church wives/husbands group, on our last 4 flights my wife and me have been made to feel as if we (and the other passangers) are merely an inconvenient annoyance.
I would not like to have to think of any crew member having to work in an unpleasant atmosphere - whatever their views, but perhaps some of them deserve it.
I look forward to the day when I can use BA again without wondering how unpleasant the experience will be.
Brocstar
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MissM
I think you are getting more than a little paranoid and self-important.
Was your name mentioned in either of my messages? No. On the other hand, if the cap fits you are more than welcome to wear it.
If you can't take the heat, MissM, get out of the kitchen and quit moaning.
Perhaps you should quit your job with British Airways, too: an employer you so clearly hate and despise.
I think you are getting more than a little paranoid and self-important.
Was your name mentioned in either of my messages? No. On the other hand, if the cap fits you are more than welcome to wear it.
If you can't take the heat, MissM, get out of the kitchen and quit moaning.
Perhaps you should quit your job with British Airways, too: an employer you so clearly hate and despise.
Why should I leave BA? Because I happen to be unsatisfied with our present management who are wanting to get rid of us because we are too expensive? Perhaps if you were in my situation you would might feel the same way.
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MissM has advise me that:
No, MissM, quite the opposite.
If I was in your situation I would consider my personal situation, the general state of my health, the deleterious effects of the strain caused by the events at my place of work during the last couple of years, and the consequent effects of all this on the people closest to me.
If I was in your situation I would also consider the fact that the leadership of the trade union that I had so passionately supported, and to which I had faithfully contributed to every month, had clearly not acted in my best interests.
If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance.
If I was in your situation I would further ask the leadership of my union just why it made braggart declarations that misled its members. The return of staff travel privileges "within five minutes" is but one of those foolish assertions. You, of all people, will no doubt remember (and cringe at the memory of) many, many more of those bombastic statements.
If I was in your situation I would ask myself just what future I have with an employer who has cleverly side-stepped my trade union and its inept leadership, which has made a considered decision to push on with its business plan without further reference to diehard strikers and bovine dissenters.
If I was in your situation, having taken all of the above into consideration, I would ask myself if it would be worth my while to risk being shunted into a dead-end position with my employer (do you really want to stay as a purser until SOSR, compulsory redundancy or retirement catch up with you?). After all, it is you who has admitted that your costs of employment by British Airways are expensive, not me.
If I was in your situation, and having been let down by my bumbling and incompetent union branch secretary and my self-serving union representatives, I would consider my job-related assets and skills and seek more congenial employment.
There is a whole world and possibly a better life outside British Airways' world-wide fleet, you know. No getting out of the country every week or so to far-flung and (possibly) exotic places, and no strutting and preening on airport concourses so that all and sundry can see you in your BA uniform, that much is true, but meaningful and satisfying work nevertheless that would benefit both you and the community at large.
As for your assertion that your
so what? Those who live by the pen must be prepared to . . .
Perhaps if you were in my situation you would might feel the same way.
If I was in your situation I would consider my personal situation, the general state of my health, the deleterious effects of the strain caused by the events at my place of work during the last couple of years, and the consequent effects of all this on the people closest to me.
If I was in your situation I would also consider the fact that the leadership of the trade union that I had so passionately supported, and to which I had faithfully contributed to every month, had clearly not acted in my best interests.
If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance.
If I was in your situation I would further ask the leadership of my union just why it made braggart declarations that misled its members. The return of staff travel privileges "within five minutes" is but one of those foolish assertions. You, of all people, will no doubt remember (and cringe at the memory of) many, many more of those bombastic statements.
If I was in your situation I would ask myself just what future I have with an employer who has cleverly side-stepped my trade union and its inept leadership, which has made a considered decision to push on with its business plan without further reference to diehard strikers and bovine dissenters.
If I was in your situation, having taken all of the above into consideration, I would ask myself if it would be worth my while to risk being shunted into a dead-end position with my employer (do you really want to stay as a purser until SOSR, compulsory redundancy or retirement catch up with you?). After all, it is you who has admitted that your costs of employment by British Airways are expensive, not me.
If I was in your situation, and having been let down by my bumbling and incompetent union branch secretary and my self-serving union representatives, I would consider my job-related assets and skills and seek more congenial employment.
There is a whole world and possibly a better life outside British Airways' world-wide fleet, you know. No getting out of the country every week or so to far-flung and (possibly) exotic places, and no strutting and preening on airport concourses so that all and sundry can see you in your BA uniform, that much is true, but meaningful and satisfying work nevertheless that would benefit both you and the community at large.
As for your assertion that your
name was mentioned, from what I can remember, twice in one of your previous messages
Last edited by Chuchinchow; 9th Oct 2010 at 14:56.
Puzzled
Wasn't the original dispute about 'imposition', regarding removal of one position per crew (or getting the nco's to chip in with the general effort) ? Where did the 'want to get rid of us' bit come from, a compulsory redundancy exercise I haven't heard about ? Mind you, wouldn't doubt that things have changed and that perhaps now it is possible that many do in fact want a clean start without you.
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If I was in your situation I would consider my personal situation, the general state of my health, the deleterious effects of the strain caused by the events at my place of work during the last couple of years, and the consequent effects of all this on the people closest to me.
If I was in your situation I would also consider the fact that the leadership of the trade union that I had so passionately supported, and to which I had faithfully contributed to every month, had clearly not acted in my best interests.
If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance.
If I was in your situation I would further ask the leadership of my union just why it made braggart declarations that misled its members. The return of staff travel privileges "within five minutes" is but one of those foolish assertions.
If I was in your situation I would ask myself just what future I have with an employer who has cleverly side-stepped my trade union, and its inept leadership, at every turn and has made a considered decision to push on with its business plan without further reference to diehard strikers and dissenters.
If I was in your situation, having taken all of the above into consideration, I would ask myself if it would be worth my while to risk being shunted into a dead-end position with my employer (do you really want to stay as a purser until SOSR, compulsory redundancy or retirement catch up with you?)
If I was in your situation, and having been let down by my bumbling and incompetent union branch secretary and my self-serving union representatives, I would consider my job-related assets and skills and seek more congenial employment.
There is a whole world and possibly a better life outside British Airways' world-wide fleet, you know. No getting out of the country every week or so to far-flung and (possibly) exotic places, and no strutting and preening on airport concourses so that all and sundry can see you in your BA uniform, that much is true, but meaningful and satisfying work nevertheless that would benefit both you and the community at large.
There is a whole world and possibly a better life outside British Airways' world-wide fleet, you know. No getting out of the country every week or so to far-flung and (possibly) exotic places, and no strutting and preening on airport concourses so that all and sundry can see you in your BA uniform, that much is true, but meaningful and satisfying work nevertheless that would benefit both you and the community at large.
so what? Those who live by the pen must be prepared to . . .
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Quote:
"If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance."
Blame it on the union.
"If I was in your situation I would ask the leadership of that union why, after more than a year and a half of dealing with my employer, it had not managed to reach any sort of equable solution to its original grievance."
Blame it on the union.
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Thirty pieces of silver?
MissM has reproved me, saying;
No, it may not. But how about the voluntary redundancy package that you seem to be so greedy and willing to accept - if its terms satisfy your requirements. See your post #62, 6 October 2010, at 17:45:
Funny how even the most rabid union supporter has her (or his) price. Or is it possibly rodents desperately seeking to disembark from a vessel in distress?
Strangely SOSR is something which has been rumoured for a very long time and has yet not been issued. Last time this rumour circulated was back in May during the strike. Personally I don't think they will ever issue it because otherwise it would have been]
As much as some of you obviously would prefer me to do, I won't be going anywhere for a while. Maybe if BA offered me a good VR package I would consider it!
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Glad you agree with +/- 90% of the readers of this thread MissM
No, it may not. But how about the voluntary redundancy package that you seem to be so greedy and willing to accept - if its terms satisfy your requirements. See your post #62, 6 October 2010, at 17:45:
Funny how even the most rabid union supporter has her (or his) price. Or is it possibly rodents desperately seeking to disembark from a vessel in distress?
And, please leave out '(or his)' in the future.
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MissM
I would just like to say that you are holding yourself in a very professional manner. There are probably many things that we don't agree on, with the dispute in question, but I have complete respect in the way that you put your point.
However, my opinion doesn't really count for too much on pprune!
However, my opinion doesn't really count for too much on pprune!
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I fail to see how Miss M can be accused of being greedy for mentioning VR on the one hand, then be told she should leave BA on the other.
Doesn't make any sense to me and any reasonable person would consider a VR offer, before deciding whether it suited their needs or not.
I do not support BASSA's cause, but Miss M should not be pilloried for doing so.
Doesn't make any sense to me and any reasonable person would consider a VR offer, before deciding whether it suited their needs or not.
I do not support BASSA's cause, but Miss M should not be pilloried for doing so.
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Litebulbs
Thank you! The same could be said for you. And, your opinion does count.
Lotpax
The only person accusing me of being greedy is Chuchinchow who appears to have taken a hostile stance on me. I do agree with you that any reasonable person would consider leaving if VR is being offered. There's nothing wrong with it and certainly not a greedy behaviour. It would have been a greedy behaviour if I had expected or even demanded BA to offer it. That's not the case.
Thanks to you too
Thank you! The same could be said for you. And, your opinion does count.
Lotpax
The only person accusing me of being greedy is Chuchinchow who appears to have taken a hostile stance on me. I do agree with you that any reasonable person would consider leaving if VR is being offered. There's nothing wrong with it and certainly not a greedy behaviour. It would have been a greedy behaviour if I had expected or even demanded BA to offer it. That's not the case.
Thanks to you too
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a hostile stance on me
And do not try to wriggle out of or to disavow statements you so clearly made here, in writing. Everybody has her (or his) price; in this case it is merely a question of when and how much MissM would accept.
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Blame it on the union. Surely our management could never be responsible for not reaching an agreement with us.
Wasn't it proven in court that it was the unions fault an agreement wasn't reached due to the different parts of the union not even willing to be in the same room as each other?
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Malone & Ors v British Airways Plc [2010] EWHC 302 (QB) (19 February 2010)
The way I see the thrust of this, is that the contract was not linked clearly to industrial agreements. I am presuming that the appeal will be trying to prove the link.