BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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This is second hand - or maybe third hand information - or even worse
reference:-___link
I think I remember somewhere that the strike or strikes must be within 12 weeks of the start of the first strike.
No doubt someone can provide more reliable information than I have put in this post.
Although the union has ruled out striking over Easter, members of its cabin crew branch, Bassa, remain determined to strike for at least 10 days. A poll on the Bassa website saw 70% of members back a strike lasting longer than 10 days.
I think I remember somewhere that the strike or strikes must be within 12 weeks of the start of the first strike.
No doubt someone can provide more reliable information than I have put in this post.
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Call 100 ....
So what description would you put to the current statements and calls for strike action being made by the unions in the UK? - are you claiming that the unions do not have a declared intent to bring total disruption to the UK economy/industry in order to bring about a change of government?
JDS ....
Being an ex flight engineer does not limit DH in his choice of non de plumes, he was very upset when he was thrown off the BA thread by the MOD's, to properly understand the situation, try reading some of his posts from November, and previously, when he became quite open about BASSA/his objectives.
Both of the above comments are useless and only made to stifle any ongoing open discussion, why do you make them if you have nothing to add.
So what description would you put to the current statements and calls for strike action being made by the unions in the UK? - are you claiming that the unions do not have a declared intent to bring total disruption to the UK economy/industry in order to bring about a change of government?
JDS ....
Being an ex flight engineer does not limit DH in his choice of non de plumes, he was very upset when he was thrown off the BA thread by the MOD's, to properly understand the situation, try reading some of his posts from November, and previously, when he became quite open about BASSA/his objectives.
Both of the above comments are useless and only made to stifle any ongoing open discussion, why do you make them if you have nothing to add.
Generalisations add nothing to the discussion.
I fail to see how pointing out your errors stifles discussion.....
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Reading the end of the quote in the post suggests that no decision has been made.
http://www.pprune.org/6202337-post2631.html
Interesting they are appealing to BALPA and publicising it, but no mention is made of all the Unite members who are VCC
http://www.pprune.org/6202337-post2631.html
Interesting they are appealing to BALPA and publicising it, but no mention is made of all the Unite members who are VCC
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Do you think Duncan Holley is capable of absorbing the lesson that you don't smear and attack those who you may wish to cooperate with your plans?
The comments below are interesting in that its obvious that BALPA is not going to get involved in a fiasco of BASSA's making and also the tone of communication from the BALPA leadership is so much more professional than that of BASSA.
British Airways Plc’s cabin-crew union has asked pilots to stop undermining a two-year campaign over pay and staffing levels by volunteering as emergency flight attendants during strike action, according to the cockpit union.
Excerpts from a Bloomberg release:
Quite a difference from Mr. Holley's missives about over-drinking and telling members who disagree with his stance to leave the Union.
Perhaps BASSA will eventually see a change in leadership that reflects more positively on its members.
The comments below are interesting in that its obvious that BALPA is not going to get involved in a fiasco of BASSA's making and also the tone of communication from the BALPA leadership is so much more professional than that of BASSA.
British Airways Plc’s cabin-crew union has asked pilots to stop undermining a two-year campaign over pay and staffing levels by volunteering as emergency flight attendants during strike action, according to the cockpit union.
Excerpts from a Bloomberg release:
Unite General Secretary Len McCluskey has written to Jim McAuslan, his counterpart at the British Airline Pilots’ Association, to appeal for support, McAuslan said today in an interview in London. Some union officials have “lost the plot” over the dispute and Balpa plans to stay neutral, he said.
“We will not be encouraging our members to support the strike action, neither will we be chastising them for doing so or encouraging anyone to do the work of other staff,” he said, adding that were pilots to be consulted there would be “an overwhelming vote against supporting the cabin crew.....
McAuslan said he’s concerned that a rift is developing between flight attendant and pilots as Unite’s BASSA division, which represents cabin crew, holds out for a better deal from the airline after blocking a settlement in November.
“Unite is the prisoner of a branch that’s lost the plot a bit and cabin crew who have been badly led are frustrated,” he said. “But at the end of all of this flight and cabin crew need to work together. This is a safety critical industry...."
“We will not be encouraging our members to support the strike action, neither will we be chastising them for doing so or encouraging anyone to do the work of other staff,” he said, adding that were pilots to be consulted there would be “an overwhelming vote against supporting the cabin crew.....
McAuslan said he’s concerned that a rift is developing between flight attendant and pilots as Unite’s BASSA division, which represents cabin crew, holds out for a better deal from the airline after blocking a settlement in November.
“Unite is the prisoner of a branch that’s lost the plot a bit and cabin crew who have been badly led are frustrated,” he said. “But at the end of all of this flight and cabin crew need to work together. This is a safety critical industry...."
Perhaps BASSA will eventually see a change in leadership that reflects more positively on its members.
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Interesting they are appealing to BALPA and publicising it, but no mention is made of all the Unite members who are VCC
Acknowledging that fellow members of UNITE feel that the actions of BASSA are beyond the pale is something you will not see, as it makes them look foolish and weak. Instead they choose to demonise their closest work colleagues in some bizarre attempt to claim some form of legitimacy.
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Originally Posted by Ancient Observer
How much profit does BA need to make before it starts to replace some of its antique, (but well maintained) fleet?
I suspect that BA CC ought to be more worried about getting some new planes than being worried about travel concessions.
I suspect that BA CC ought to be more worried about getting some new planes than being worried about travel concessions.
They are coming [eventually]
IAG - Fleet / Product
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I imagine this is red rag to a bull for some in BASSA who, for reasons known only to them, have a pathological obsession with the pilots.
Pilots' union leader defies 'Scargill of the Skies' over BA cabin crew strike threat | Mail Online
BA strike: pilots' union warns on safety and morale | Business | guardian.co.uk
Pilots' union leader defies 'Scargill of the Skies' over BA cabin crew strike threat | Mail Online
BA strike: pilots' union warns on safety and morale | Business | guardian.co.uk
From Airline Economics Daily News:
Willie Walsh named as the Airline Economics Aviation 100 Aerospace CEO of the year 2010.
Some 10,100 senior aerospace executives along with industry investors and financiers on a global basis were asked to vote for who they thought was the top performing CEO of 2010. Of this number a huge 38% voted for Willie Walsh, chief executive of British Airways. The vast majority of the votes included messages confirming that in a very difficult year Walsh managed to handle issues under the spotlight of the global media with great skill, moreover and most importantly, during the course of 2010 Walsh put British Airways plc into a far stronger position than existed at the start of the year.
Some 10,100 senior aerospace executives along with industry investors and financiers on a global basis were asked to vote for who they thought was the top performing CEO of 2010. Of this number a huge 38% voted for Willie Walsh, chief executive of British Airways. The vast majority of the votes included messages confirming that in a very difficult year Walsh managed to handle issues under the spotlight of the global media with great skill, moreover and most importantly, during the course of 2010 Walsh put British Airways plc into a far stronger position than existed at the start of the year.
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Quite a difference from Mr. Holley's missives about over-drinking and telling members who disagree with his stance to leave the Union.
McAuslan is the general secretary of BALPA, not merely a branch secretary of Unite.
There is far too much attention paid to Holley here.
The reality is that if British Airways cannot communicate effectively with its own employees and an ex employee has some svengali type of hold over them, then the company needs to take some swift action to correct this.
Whilst others on this thread seem to place all the blame in this dispute on one branch of Unite (and CC89 has not exactly covered itself in glory recently), I believe that British Airways cannot escape some serious questions.
After one year of industrial dispute, 16% of the total workforce are prepared to vote for strike action, which may well be 'unprotected.'
As Litebulbs said, the inconvenient truth for some posters on this thread is that it appears a substantial segment of the workforce do not trust the company.
Before I get the normal outrage for the usual suspects, let me just say again that I believe BASSA has acted unreasonably and unprofessionally, but BA has failed to connect with its workforce.
It is not insignificant, IMHO, that the HR director departed a few months ago.
The last strike action was inconclusive, in that it failed to deliver concessions to the striking employees; equally, it did not end the disupte. It was, IMHO a bad result for all, not least those who worked through the strike and now feel that they gained little for their support.
The cost of the action, IIRC, was circa £150m, plus any brand damage due to a certain amount of disrupted travel, despite what appeared to be effective contingency planning.
Is BA prepared to keep paying out large sums of money, in the form of wet leasing, compensation etc, if Unite calls strikes once or twice per year, on an ongoing basis?
What message does it give to other employees, to see a certain group keep breaching contract?
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I'm confused, West Lakes. When the last strike kicked off, wasn't BASSA the only decision maker on beginning it, when it came to going out? Unite had completed final negotiationan and had an offer on the table to present to the membership, which BA said would stay on the table as long as the the strike did not commence. Giving members long enough to be consulted.
But (seemingly) behind Unite's back, McL and Holley called the strike and it began. BA then withdrew the offer as they'd threatened and the strikes went forward.
But did this happen only because Unite had voted and sanctioned the strike to begin, as some said the procedure is?
It is true, as I understand it, that a strike can only be called off and ended by BASSA. But given what happened before, it seems they can also kick it off without Unite's say so?
The reason I ask is that McL threatened Easter and Royal Wedding strike dates back in the fall. But now is saying that won't happen (reading between the lines in the news reports he was spanked by Milliband for that and changed his tune).
But if only BASSA have the say? Oy vey, mon dieu. Unite seemed not to be in the driving seat last time, so no matter what McL says....
Anybody?
But (seemingly) behind Unite's back, McL and Holley called the strike and it began. BA then withdrew the offer as they'd threatened and the strikes went forward.
But did this happen only because Unite had voted and sanctioned the strike to begin, as some said the procedure is?
It is true, as I understand it, that a strike can only be called off and ended by BASSA. But given what happened before, it seems they can also kick it off without Unite's say so?
The reason I ask is that McL threatened Easter and Royal Wedding strike dates back in the fall. But now is saying that won't happen (reading between the lines in the news reports he was spanked by Milliband for that and changed his tune).
But if only BASSA have the say? Oy vey, mon dieu. Unite seemed not to be in the driving seat last time, so no matter what McL says....
Anybody?
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What is a Union?
Baggers,
Everyone who works has some understanding of what business is. But who knows what a union is today? I have suggested it is no more than a service provider and I have been slapped down for that, because that opinion does not fit the political agenda of the more left leaning membership. They believe that it is still a movement to protect the working man against the filthy rich.
It is legislation from the 80's, caused by the 70's that has brought about this situation as you explained. Who is calling the shots? Without members there would be no union, but without a union, you have no collective bargaining rights and would be in a weaker position.
No amount of full time officer experience will be able to substitute that of a workplace rep, for knowledge of their own business. But it is also invaluable to have a full time officer to tell you when you have lost, because they see it day after day.
I don't know how many times I have reacted to news and disagreed with it, because I didn't want to hear it. The moment BA were willing to take a huge financial hit in excess of £150m, to take on a huge majority vote, then that was it. TW and DS no doubt saw this and got round the table to try and buffer the pain. These two old communist militant trouble makers and whatever else pprune would like to call them, saw this. But the news was just not acceptable, no matter how true.
And just think, is was all over some employees volunteering to leave.
You live and learn.
Everyone who works has some understanding of what business is. But who knows what a union is today? I have suggested it is no more than a service provider and I have been slapped down for that, because that opinion does not fit the political agenda of the more left leaning membership. They believe that it is still a movement to protect the working man against the filthy rich.
It is legislation from the 80's, caused by the 70's that has brought about this situation as you explained. Who is calling the shots? Without members there would be no union, but without a union, you have no collective bargaining rights and would be in a weaker position.
No amount of full time officer experience will be able to substitute that of a workplace rep, for knowledge of their own business. But it is also invaluable to have a full time officer to tell you when you have lost, because they see it day after day.
I don't know how many times I have reacted to news and disagreed with it, because I didn't want to hear it. The moment BA were willing to take a huge financial hit in excess of £150m, to take on a huge majority vote, then that was it. TW and DS no doubt saw this and got round the table to try and buffer the pain. These two old communist militant trouble makers and whatever else pprune would like to call them, saw this. But the news was just not acceptable, no matter how true.
And just think, is was all over some employees volunteering to leave.
You live and learn.
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I'm enjoying watching the cricket from Adelaide & England are scoring some runs at last. As I wait for the Aussies to start their innings I thought I'd contribute for what it's worth (not a lot!).
If Bassa/ Unite were confident of gaining anything substantial from IA then by now they would have announced their intentions. Instead they're obviously scratching their heads wondering what on earth to do.
I'm backing BA.
If Bassa/ Unite were confident of gaining anything substantial from IA then by now they would have announced their intentions. Instead they're obviously scratching their heads wondering what on earth to do.
I'm backing BA.
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The reality is that if British Airways cannot communicate effectively with its own employees and an ex employee has some svengali type of hold over them, then the company needs to take some swift action to correct this.
Whilst others on this thread seem to place all the blame in this dispute on one branch of Unite (and CC89 has not exactly covered itself in glory recently), I believe that British Airways cannot escape some serious questions.
Whilst others on this thread seem to place all the blame in this dispute on one branch of Unite (and CC89 has not exactly covered itself in glory recently), I believe that British Airways cannot escape some serious questions.
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LD 12986 said
I totally agree with everything that comes after the words "or whether"
or whether it is a symptom of something that has been festering for decades over the way a very large, remote and mobile workforce has been managed with the company allowing BASSA to step into a void left by the company.
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HR vacuum
must agree that BA has questions to answer. there has, apparently been a vacuum of HR management that has allowed this'growth' to flourish.
that's not to say that managing a workforce like this is easy. there is no settled work group or groups that build up a group identity, nor do they work regular hours in one place.
nevertheless, there is nothing new in that and a good HR dept would have recognised it and sought to put effective management measures in place.
coupled with an over-deferent attitude to CC, you have today's situation.
that's not to say that managing a workforce like this is easy. there is no settled work group or groups that build up a group identity, nor do they work regular hours in one place.
nevertheless, there is nothing new in that and a good HR dept would have recognised it and sought to put effective management measures in place.
coupled with an over-deferent attitude to CC, you have today's situation.
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Joao da Silva,
It doesn't take much to anonymously tick a box on the form. That's a relatively unimportant statistic as far as this dispute is concerned.
But let's see how many are prepared to (possibly) risk losing their jobs by participating in (possibly) unprotected industrial action.
Then I think your 16% might have to shift a decimal place. Or two.
After one year of industrial dispute, 16% of the total workforce are prepared to vote for strike action, which may well be 'unprotected.'
But let's see how many are prepared to (possibly) risk losing their jobs by participating in (possibly) unprotected industrial action.
Then I think your 16% might have to shift a decimal place. Or two.
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I don't believe any reasonable individual would state that BA had no part in creating the climate that created the unreasonable sense of entitlement that BASSA have regarding their influence in BA operations.
Duncan Holley is the logical result of BA's past approach. If everytime a Union pitches a fit they get results you choose a leader who can pitch a fit. However, times have changed and a more nuanced approach is required. Mr. Holley compares rather poorly in this regard. BA seems determined to solve the BASSA problem and BASSA has refused to accept and adjust to that change. I don't believe this is about Union busting. It is advantagous to BA to have a reasonable and progressive Union to work in partnership with..but it is definitely a change in course that BASSA simply seems unable to absorb at this point.
Litebulb states so well:
There are hints on the main CC thread that PCCC is ready to come out of the shadows. More problems for BASSA if true.
Duncan Holley is the logical result of BA's past approach. If everytime a Union pitches a fit they get results you choose a leader who can pitch a fit. However, times have changed and a more nuanced approach is required. Mr. Holley compares rather poorly in this regard. BA seems determined to solve the BASSA problem and BASSA has refused to accept and adjust to that change. I don't believe this is about Union busting. It is advantagous to BA to have a reasonable and progressive Union to work in partnership with..but it is definitely a change in course that BASSA simply seems unable to absorb at this point.
Litebulb states so well:
I don't know how many times I have reacted to news and disagreed with it, because I didn't want to hear it. The moment BA were willing to take a huge financial hit in excess of £150m, to take on a huge majority vote, then that was it. TW and DS no doubt saw this and got round the table to try and buffer the pain. These two old communist militant trouble makers and whatever else pprune would like to call them, saw this. But the news was just not acceptable, no matter how true.
There are hints on the main CC thread that PCCC is ready to come out of the shadows. More problems for BASSA if true.
There are hints on the main CC thread that PCCC is ready to come out of the shadows. More problems for BASSA if true
However I rather expect we will will see yet another post from DH claiming that PCCC are management stooges etc copied onto the other thread from the BASSA forum in due course.
