BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
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maeboyce
you also realise that I am a complete dumpling as well - but hopefully nice with it!!! 
Welcome to PPrune, your sense of humour & self deprecation is most refreshing.
Good to see that MPN11 has awoken from his winter hibernation.
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That's interesting, Diplome.
It got me thinking about who we might be meeting when we are on WW (my major routes, not so much Europe or Gatwick.)
How many CC are WorldWide? We know that Gatwick has been supportive of BA, so it is likely that they were not a large part of this yes vote of 5700+.
If there are, say, 9000 that make up WW fleet (just a number for discussion here), then a cabin crew member we meet on board might have more than a 50 percent chance of being one who voted for this mess.
The point being we pax might be more likely to meet a "militant" on a WW route than anywhere else. The chance perhaps being higher?
My recent flights seemed to bear out the notion of how inconsistent WW can be due to perhaps the CSD or the crew they are trying to lead.
The flight ex-IAD was just vague and disconnected crew, obviously going through the motions, disappeared for the entire flight after the meal service until the last 1.5 hours for the next light meal. Never heard from the CSD except at the first when he announced rather haughtily, "my cabin crew and I will be taking you to London today." Really? Nobody in the cockpit then? Gee, that's a worry. Then after that two other female cabin crew made the required announcements, until he made a very short one minutes before landing. I never saw him during the flight (I was in CW).
Then on the way back, a superb, friendly attitude, crew regularly coming through the CW cabin to just check discreetly if we needed anything. Several drinks top ups during lunch, etc.
The CSD worked the cabin and was a very charming woman who projected a great deal of aplomb and gracious authority. Her crew were upbeat and friendly and ready to make a charming comment. They couldn't take our coats fast enough upon boarding. A male crew member even rushed over to help a rather short passenger across the aisle from me I was trying to assist in getting her modest carryon into the overhead.
I thanked the CSD when I passed by her in the luggage retrieval area for a wonderful flight. It just seemed that the crew probably responded to her very gracious and authoritative demeanor and performed accordingly. But who knows.
Fortunately, it was one of the many flights during which I was asked to fill out one of those onboard surveys, so was able to give credit where credit was due on all accounts. And included her name in the written comments section as hers being one of the best flights with BA in a long while.
I have no idea why the outbound flight was the way it was, nor the inbound flight. But it just points out BA's issues with inconsistency on board. If that was the CSD's role in making it superb, then they clearly need some new CSDs among the ranks who may not be performing either for militant reasons as they try passisve resistence on board in order to harm their employer, or just that they are no longer interested in good performance for themselves.
But one always wonders now if a poor on board experience just MIGHT be part of the militant issues...
The strike saga just gets some of us pax pondering these things, as the on board inconsistencies seem to have accelerated in the past two years or so.
It got me thinking about who we might be meeting when we are on WW (my major routes, not so much Europe or Gatwick.)
How many CC are WorldWide? We know that Gatwick has been supportive of BA, so it is likely that they were not a large part of this yes vote of 5700+.
If there are, say, 9000 that make up WW fleet (just a number for discussion here), then a cabin crew member we meet on board might have more than a 50 percent chance of being one who voted for this mess.
The point being we pax might be more likely to meet a "militant" on a WW route than anywhere else. The chance perhaps being higher?
My recent flights seemed to bear out the notion of how inconsistent WW can be due to perhaps the CSD or the crew they are trying to lead.
The flight ex-IAD was just vague and disconnected crew, obviously going through the motions, disappeared for the entire flight after the meal service until the last 1.5 hours for the next light meal. Never heard from the CSD except at the first when he announced rather haughtily, "my cabin crew and I will be taking you to London today." Really? Nobody in the cockpit then? Gee, that's a worry. Then after that two other female cabin crew made the required announcements, until he made a very short one minutes before landing. I never saw him during the flight (I was in CW).
Then on the way back, a superb, friendly attitude, crew regularly coming through the CW cabin to just check discreetly if we needed anything. Several drinks top ups during lunch, etc.
The CSD worked the cabin and was a very charming woman who projected a great deal of aplomb and gracious authority. Her crew were upbeat and friendly and ready to make a charming comment. They couldn't take our coats fast enough upon boarding. A male crew member even rushed over to help a rather short passenger across the aisle from me I was trying to assist in getting her modest carryon into the overhead.
I thanked the CSD when I passed by her in the luggage retrieval area for a wonderful flight. It just seemed that the crew probably responded to her very gracious and authoritative demeanor and performed accordingly. But who knows.
Fortunately, it was one of the many flights during which I was asked to fill out one of those onboard surveys, so was able to give credit where credit was due on all accounts. And included her name in the written comments section as hers being one of the best flights with BA in a long while.
I have no idea why the outbound flight was the way it was, nor the inbound flight. But it just points out BA's issues with inconsistency on board. If that was the CSD's role in making it superb, then they clearly need some new CSDs among the ranks who may not be performing either for militant reasons as they try passisve resistence on board in order to harm their employer, or just that they are no longer interested in good performance for themselves.
But one always wonders now if a poor on board experience just MIGHT be part of the militant issues...
The strike saga just gets some of us pax pondering these things, as the on board inconsistencies seem to have accelerated in the past two years or so.
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Baggersup
I agree that hitting Unite would be a bad move on BA's part. It seems that there is a lot of good will between the other Unite members and the company they are trying to save. I don't think BA leadership will risk angering the rest of the Unite members with legal action against the parent union.
I believe the public, especially the SLF like myself, will accept punitive action directed toward the two branches much better. I think anyone that has followed this at all knows where the real problem lies.
I believe the public, especially the SLF like myself, will accept punitive action directed toward the two branches much better. I think anyone that has followed this at all knows where the real problem lies.
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baggersup,
The CSD or SCCM does set the tone of a crew very much so.
On you flight out of IAD it could have been the last sector of a back to back trip. These are trips where the crew do 4 sectors back and forth to the States in 5 or 6 days, not going home when they get to LHR in the middle of the trip. It is no excuse but likely why they may have lacked luster.
Hopefully you will get a good CSD next time and more likely, if you fly on a strike day because a lot of the best keen ones came in to work.
The CSD or SCCM does set the tone of a crew very much so.
On you flight out of IAD it could have been the last sector of a back to back trip. These are trips where the crew do 4 sectors back and forth to the States in 5 or 6 days, not going home when they get to LHR in the middle of the trip. It is no excuse but likely why they may have lacked luster.
Hopefully you will get a good CSD next time and more likely, if you fly on a strike day because a lot of the best keen ones came in to work.
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baggersup:
.
What a wonderful phrase.."gracious authority".
And how unfortunate is it that for many of us here in the "I just have a ticket" land that we assume that anyone that has that approach is a non-striker. But that is the public face that the strikers have given their customers.
At a recent social evening I was sitting with my husband and three or four senior individuals with different entities with ties to my husband's business. One from the States was discussing his difficulties on his latest travel to London. I mentioned the great word of mouth I had heard, though I have not experienced it personally, regarding BA's service from New York to London City. When the gentleman said "But what about BA's strike issue?" it was met with laughter by three of the individuals present. Unfortunately one stated "You won't meet the socialists on that route..its really wonderful.".
I'm not sure if the BA Cabin Crew as a whole have realized how they have let their image be diminished by the BASSA militants...and when do they say "Enough is enough".
The CSD worked the cabin and was a very charming woman who projected a great deal of aplomb and gracious authority. Her crew were upbeat and friendly and ready to make a charming comment
What a wonderful phrase.."gracious authority".
And how unfortunate is it that for many of us here in the "I just have a ticket" land that we assume that anyone that has that approach is a non-striker. But that is the public face that the strikers have given their customers.
At a recent social evening I was sitting with my husband and three or four senior individuals with different entities with ties to my husband's business. One from the States was discussing his difficulties on his latest travel to London. I mentioned the great word of mouth I had heard, though I have not experienced it personally, regarding BA's service from New York to London City. When the gentleman said "But what about BA's strike issue?" it was met with laughter by three of the individuals present. Unfortunately one stated "You won't meet the socialists on that route..its really wonderful.".
I'm not sure if the BA Cabin Crew as a whole have realized how they have let their image be diminished by the BASSA militants...and when do they say "Enough is enough".
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Betty Girl
I had a very similar experience as Baggersup on a recent ATL-LHR return. After the dinner service the flight crew just disappeared until breakfast. I had to go track down someone to get a cup of coffee.
On the return leg the crew was very attentive and took very good care of us. I was in CW both ways. If I had similar experiences both ways I would start looking for a seat on Virgin for my next ride.
Edited to make font readable = Verdana / 2
On the return leg the crew was very attentive and took very good care of us. I was in CW both ways. If I had similar experiences both ways I would start looking for a seat on Virgin for my next ride.
Edited to make font readable = Verdana / 2
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I too have had a flight where the cabin crew just couldn't have cared less and if it wasn't for the fact that in the past we have had such good service we would be using Virgin by now.
It was LHR-BOS and after the meal service the cabin crew vanished into the crew rest area (747 at the back) to return 4 hours later.
It was LHR-BOS and after the meal service the cabin crew vanished into the crew rest area (747 at the back) to return 4 hours later.
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What next ?
This is what I wrote on this thread on 22nd Dec. 2010 , Post 1298. The post was copied , also on 22nd Dec. , to the CC industrial relations thread , with a few improvements , as Post 1928 :
I think we can all see that a NO vote to the strike call means that BA, the Company, wins and so do the staff. However the malcontents remain.
So what about a YES vote to the strike call. It only needs a majority of voters not a majority of CC. There may not be many voters so perhaps only 3000-3500 possible strikers.
I suggest that BA might ignore the strike call. The Company might say that it has taken legal advice and believes that this proposed strike is a continuation of the previous strike and the strikers are not protected in the same way from dismissal.
BA does not instigate any Court action.
BA advises the strikers that it contemplates dismissing them.
BA now has sufficient trained staff to crew the cabins on a very large number, perhaps as much as 90%, of its flights and 100% of the higher revenue earning flights.
The strike goes ahead, probably poorly supported. BA dismisses the strikers. The strikers have to take action against the Company.
The company refuses to re-employ the strikers. BA offers a modest sum to each striker. This will hardly matter to the Company as expensive Legacy CC have been replaced by cheaper MF CC. Will Unite fund the striker's legal action? I doubt it.
The malcontents are gone . The cabin is a nicer place.
If someone who is allowed to post on the 'BA CC Industrial relations forum' would like to copy this post or part of it across to that Forum please so do.
A month and a ballot later I see no reason to change my forecast.
I think we can all see that a NO vote to the strike call means that BA, the Company, wins and so do the staff. However the malcontents remain.
So what about a YES vote to the strike call. It only needs a majority of voters not a majority of CC. There may not be many voters so perhaps only 3000-3500 possible strikers.
I suggest that BA might ignore the strike call. The Company might say that it has taken legal advice and believes that this proposed strike is a continuation of the previous strike and the strikers are not protected in the same way from dismissal.
BA does not instigate any Court action.
BA advises the strikers that it contemplates dismissing them.
BA now has sufficient trained staff to crew the cabins on a very large number, perhaps as much as 90%, of its flights and 100% of the higher revenue earning flights.
The strike goes ahead, probably poorly supported. BA dismisses the strikers. The strikers have to take action against the Company.
The company refuses to re-employ the strikers. BA offers a modest sum to each striker. This will hardly matter to the Company as expensive Legacy CC have been replaced by cheaper MF CC. Will Unite fund the striker's legal action? I doubt it.
The malcontents are gone . The cabin is a nicer place.
If someone who is allowed to post on the 'BA CC Industrial relations forum' would like to copy this post or part of it across to that Forum please so do.
A month and a ballot later I see no reason to change my forecast.
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MCO
That's sad. I hope your future experiences are better.
By the way I had to put on glasses to read your posts!!!!
You all live in the USA I see. That's a shame because I wish you could try EuroFleet and be on one of my flights.
That's sad. I hope your future experiences are better.
By the way I had to put on glasses to read your posts!!!!
You all live in the USA I see. That's a shame because I wish you could try EuroFleet and be on one of my flights.
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Thanks BG. The more information pax have about that's going on behind the scenes, the better we can interpret our onboard experiences.
If I ran into an exhausted crew on their last leg (no pun intended), then hopefully BA will address this as the scheduling management issue it is and not an onboard performance issue from crew.
If they consistently get onboard surveys back on these particular flights with the kinds of comments I made on here about the outbound flight, but with the same CSD as they had on a day flight who obtained outstanding reviews, then they will see it's their scheduling that needs to be changed. Not a CSD who needs to be addressed.
Many of us on here have dealt with large groups we've had to manage in various types of situations and companies. So, we are not quick to tar everyone with the same brush, nor make silly blanket assumptions. We'd not have lasted long as managers if were were inclined that way.
I keep an open mind on every flight. But just observe because I'm interested to see how things transpire. From a mangement point of view as well as a pax.
If I ran into an exhausted crew on their last leg (no pun intended), then hopefully BA will address this as the scheduling management issue it is and not an onboard performance issue from crew.
If they consistently get onboard surveys back on these particular flights with the kinds of comments I made on here about the outbound flight, but with the same CSD as they had on a day flight who obtained outstanding reviews, then they will see it's their scheduling that needs to be changed. Not a CSD who needs to be addressed.
Many of us on here have dealt with large groups we've had to manage in various types of situations and companies. So, we are not quick to tar everyone with the same brush, nor make silly blanket assumptions. We'd not have lasted long as managers if were were inclined that way.
I keep an open mind on every flight. But just observe because I'm interested to see how things transpire. From a mangement point of view as well as a pax.
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I do use Eurofleet sometimes. That is if Eurofleet is the one that services LHR to CDG. It's hard to judge though, because more often than one would like, you arrive at LHR to find on your LHR-CDG sector you have been downgraded to economy because they've changed the flight to eliminate Club Europe.
Also, the only thing you can reasonably enjoy on a 45 minute flight....is your better seat! Not time for much service. Though I always appreciate the cabin crew at the front who immediately confront with a smile the back of the plane denizens who try to stash their capacious reticules in the first CE overhead bin they encounter upon embarking and heading to the back!
That's service!
Also, the only thing you can reasonably enjoy on a 45 minute flight....is your better seat! Not time for much service. Though I always appreciate the cabin crew at the front who immediately confront with a smile the back of the plane denizens who try to stash their capacious reticules in the first CE overhead bin they encounter upon embarking and heading to the back!
That's service!
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At the moment we are in the US but for many years Mrs J used Eurofleet weekly (in fact she became gold just on Eurofleet alone). As I said earlier we have stayed with BA because of the service we normally receive.
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Betty girl
I do connect at LHR to both EDI and GLA so I would assume that would be Eurofleet. Although those flights are only around 1 hour I find the crews to be delightful and attentive. A much better atmosphere altogether than on the trans Atlantic routes.
I hope this font is better for your eyes.
I hope this font is better for your eyes.
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Thanks, that's much better.
Don't know why that happened on that Paris flight, that is not normal. You usually get a meal at the front. Just did a flight to Brussels, same as a Paris in length and had an Air Canada crew position with us and they could not believe how we did a meal in club and drinks at the back for 90 pax on a 45 min flight with just three cabin crew.
Anyway off to bed soon. Well I am going to try and sleep. A bit hard at the moment with all this worrying to do.
Don't know why that happened on that Paris flight, that is not normal. You usually get a meal at the front. Just did a flight to Brussels, same as a Paris in length and had an Air Canada crew position with us and they could not believe how we did a meal in club and drinks at the back for 90 pax on a 45 min flight with just three cabin crew.
Anyway off to bed soon. Well I am going to try and sleep. A bit hard at the moment with all this worrying to do.
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Phoney Strikes
I see on the other thread that the prospect of phoney strikes has been raised. This where a strike is called but not carried out, causing some disruption to the company in making alternative arrangements which of course is the intention in the first place.
One possible weapon that perhaps could be considered to mitigate the effects of this is for non union members and non strikers to register their intention to carry on working with the company. Then if a strike is announced and the "strikers" suddenly turn up for work, the company would be able to say that as they had indicated they were going on strike, alternative cover has been arranged, so they are no longer required for that flight. Send 'em home!
Simplistic I know, but would/could it work?
One possible weapon that perhaps could be considered to mitigate the effects of this is for non union members and non strikers to register their intention to carry on working with the company. Then if a strike is announced and the "strikers" suddenly turn up for work, the company would be able to say that as they had indicated they were going on strike, alternative cover has been arranged, so they are no longer required for that flight. Send 'em home!
Simplistic I know, but would/could it work?
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I see on the other thread that the prospect of phoney strikes has been raised. This where a strike is called but not carried out, causing some disruption to the company in making alternative arrangements which of course is the intention in the first place.
As BA monitors all electronic communications like a hawk, it would have be kept very secret to stop it leaking online. A true last minute call off of a strike would cause as much confusion amongst crew (including the many to commute from far afield) as it would anyone else.
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As BA monitors all electronic communications like a hawk, it would have be kept very secret to stop it leaking online. A true last minute call off of a strike would cause as much confusion amongst crew (including the many to commute from far afield) as it would anyone else.
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"All live in the U.S.???"
Not quite.
Very Cumbrian, and quite proud of that fact. I may spend time in London and other parts, but my heart, offcomer though I be, lies in Cumbria.
Not quite.
Very Cumbrian, and quite proud of that fact. I may spend time in London and other parts, but my heart, offcomer though I be, lies in Cumbria.
