BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LHR
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree with the above, apart from BA dismissing strikers.
If a strike action is called which BA believes is illegal, then the union is exposed for a claim for damages and the reps are exposed to a charge of gross misconduct.
If BA notifies Unite that it will make a claim for any damages incurred from the date a strike is called would Unite call a strike (also note how Len McCluskey seems happy to let TW carry on with this even though he has relinquished his role as JGS)? If a strike is called and the reps are immediately suspended for gross misconduct, would any member of cabin crew in their right mind go on strike?
If a strike action is called which BA believes is illegal, then the union is exposed for a claim for damages and the reps are exposed to a charge of gross misconduct.
If BA notifies Unite that it will make a claim for any damages incurred from the date a strike is called would Unite call a strike (also note how Len McCluskey seems happy to let TW carry on with this even though he has relinquished his role as JGS)? If a strike is called and the reps are immediately suspended for gross misconduct, would any member of cabin crew in their right mind go on strike?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Litebulbs:
Its an interesting situation. Unite can "call" the strike, but are reps who encourage and advocate what is determined by BA to be an illegal action also liable for their conduct?
I don't think that BA wishes to simply do blanket dismissals as was mentioned in a previous post. If that was to occur I believe that it would be an option of last choice and BA still has other options.
Would love to know what BA's legal department is planning to do with that ballot and vote.
Its an interesting situation. Unite can "call" the strike, but are reps who encourage and advocate what is determined by BA to be an illegal action also liable for their conduct?
I don't think that BA wishes to simply do blanket dismissals as was mentioned in a previous post. If that was to occur I believe that it would be an option of last choice and BA still has other options.
Would love to know what BA's legal department is planning to do with that ballot and vote.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hampshire
Age: 74
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LD12986
If BA notifies Unite that it will make a claim for any damages incurred from the date a strike is called would Unite call a strike...
I wonder if BA might keep their powder dry for a little longer, and leave UNITE and BASSA worrying what the next BA move might be. If some CC do strike, and BA are confident in their belief that the strike is unprotected, then BA presumably could dismiss the individuals one-by-one as they failed to muster for a rostered duty. And, as others have pointed out yonks ago, even if it were subsequently shown in court that BA was offside, they don't have to re-employ the dismissed staff, merely pay them a modicum of compensation.
Whether BA then would sue UNITE for damages is a moot point. IMO, BA could just leave UNITE sweating the big drop that they might be subject to a law suit, but not actually go that far, lest they risk alienating other UNITE members who work in other parts of the Company.
There’s no need to tell the Generals mustering their army on the other side of the hill exactly what your strategy and tactics are going to be...
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Diplome
I will try this from another angle. BA are encouraging employees who are members of Unite to vote in the current ballot. OK, they are suggesting that the only way that a current Unite member can enjoy the benefits of the new deal, is to be part of a rejection of the call for industrial action.
The excellent work by BA in making the ballot a vote on the current offer, rather than for industrial action and not just rejecting the ballot as potentially unprotected, implies that it will be seen as a sound and lawful process.
As to gross misconduct, I would say any reference to encouragement from the reps from what I have read, is to vote and it would be reasonable to expect one of the activities protected in law would be to support the call for action by the union that you are a representative of.
It still doesn't stop BA sacking who they want however, if it serves a purpose. The gross misconduct charge is just to stop any compensation award. However, is discrimination against an employee for union activities an uncapped award? Future loss could take the award into the millions.
The excellent work by BA in making the ballot a vote on the current offer, rather than for industrial action and not just rejecting the ballot as potentially unprotected, implies that it will be seen as a sound and lawful process.
As to gross misconduct, I would say any reference to encouragement from the reps from what I have read, is to vote and it would be reasonable to expect one of the activities protected in law would be to support the call for action by the union that you are a representative of.
It still doesn't stop BA sacking who they want however, if it serves a purpose. The gross misconduct charge is just to stop any compensation award. However, is discrimination against an employee for union activities an uncapped award? Future loss could take the award into the millions.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don’t personally subscribe to most of the dramatic predictions such as costs being claims from Unite or CC being sacked etc.
I can’t imagine any circumstance that would result in this forthcoming strike being better supported than the last but I can see that BA are significantly better prepared for it so perhaps they will just let it run and have those on strike experience the futility of it for themselves.
Those members of BASSA that chose to believe claims of aircraft parked in Wales or 747’s flying circuits around LHR whilst only 26 staff report for duty are frankly a lost cause and perhaps BA accept that as being the case. Let them deny themselves wages and ST again whilst stamping their feet trying to keep warm at Bedfont. (Can’t see any photos of people sitting in convertible BMW’s drinking in the winter now can you?)
BA’s best approach may be just to ignore the whole thing frankly.
Like the last postal strike, I didn’t notice it save for the brief respite from the unwanted crap they deliver through my door.
Strikes simply aint what they used to be…
I can’t imagine any circumstance that would result in this forthcoming strike being better supported than the last but I can see that BA are significantly better prepared for it so perhaps they will just let it run and have those on strike experience the futility of it for themselves.
Those members of BASSA that chose to believe claims of aircraft parked in Wales or 747’s flying circuits around LHR whilst only 26 staff report for duty are frankly a lost cause and perhaps BA accept that as being the case. Let them deny themselves wages and ST again whilst stamping their feet trying to keep warm at Bedfont. (Can’t see any photos of people sitting in convertible BMW’s drinking in the winter now can you?)
BA’s best approach may be just to ignore the whole thing frankly.
Like the last postal strike, I didn’t notice it save for the brief respite from the unwanted crap they deliver through my door.
Strikes simply aint what they used to be…
snas.
You said "Strikes simply aint what they used to be".
Yup, too right. When real workers went on strike, they did not pussy foot around with these puny little 24 and 48 hour holidays that the hobby-jobbers in bassa take, they went on strike indefinitely.
I note from the other place that my post from some days ago - that the SWP are back involved in this dispute, has been proved true. As I said at the time, my source was good, but not always 100% accurate.
I wish that BA CC in bassa would do some half-intelligent investigations of SWP. Owned and run by millionaires, they have a completely destructive perspective, and don't let boring things like real workers and real people stand in their way. They will not be BA CC.
Why Unite have allowed them in is an interesting question.
You said "Strikes simply aint what they used to be".
Yup, too right. When real workers went on strike, they did not pussy foot around with these puny little 24 and 48 hour holidays that the hobby-jobbers in bassa take, they went on strike indefinitely.
I note from the other place that my post from some days ago - that the SWP are back involved in this dispute, has been proved true. As I said at the time, my source was good, but not always 100% accurate.
I wish that BA CC in bassa would do some half-intelligent investigations of SWP. Owned and run by millionaires, they have a completely destructive perspective, and don't let boring things like real workers and real people stand in their way. They will not be BA CC.
Why Unite have allowed them in is an interesting question.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The 3 Valleys
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"...The excellent work by BA in making the ballot a vote on the current offer, rather than for industrial action and not just rejecting the ballot as potentially unprotected, implies that it will be seen as a sound and lawful process. "
But if there are ex-members ( as stated on here ) who have sent letters and then recorded delivery letters about their resignation and then still get a voting paper, surely this should be enough to highlight the word FOOL in letters one metre tall when anyone debates the question of "legal ballot "/
But if there are ex-members ( as stated on here ) who have sent letters and then recorded delivery letters about their resignation and then still get a voting paper, surely this should be enough to highlight the word FOOL in letters one metre tall when anyone debates the question of "legal ballot "/
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lb
Not at all, but it is a question of time scales. It is perfectly reasonable IMO to say 'now' do not vote if you are not a member. But, is it reasonable to be sending ballots to people who have made every reasonable effort, and more, to resign and to stop the union mailshots.
The question is whether in a court the resonableness of the former outweighs the unreasonableness of the latter, especially when the accuracy of membership details has played such a large part in the procedings over the last year and a half. I know where I stand but I'm not a judge. Does 1 statement now excuse 18 months of administrative chaos?
Regards
Not at all, but it is a question of time scales. It is perfectly reasonable IMO to say 'now' do not vote if you are not a member. But, is it reasonable to be sending ballots to people who have made every reasonable effort, and more, to resign and to stop the union mailshots.
The question is whether in a court the resonableness of the former outweighs the unreasonableness of the latter, especially when the accuracy of membership details has played such a large part in the procedings over the last year and a half. I know where I stand but I'm not a judge. Does 1 statement now excuse 18 months of administrative chaos?
Regards
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
binsleepin
This is what three Judges thought in May -
British Airways Plc v Unite the Union [2010] EWCA Civ 669 (20 May 2010)
British Airways Plc v Unite the Union [2010] EWCA Civ 669 (20 May 2010)
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If 'Citizen Smith' (remember 'Wolfie?') takes out a bank loan, and agrees to pay 'n' quid a month, all is well. As soon as he fails to make just one payment, said Bank will send him a Snottogram within days, if not hours. Why cannot a modern-day Union, with loadsa dosh in its coffers, not be able to use similar cheap software to manage its affairs?
Are Luddites alive and well at Untie?
I think we should be told.
Are Luddites alive and well at Untie?
I think we should be told.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Refusing to answer is a cop-out.
Strike action is such a serious move, that I think the law needs to be strengthened so that any strike must be supported by the votes of the majority of the members, not just the majority of the voters. That would stop intimidation and spin in their tracks.
Strike action is such a serious move, that I think the law needs to be strengthened so that any strike must be supported by the votes of the majority of the members, not just the majority of the voters. That would stop intimidation and spin in their tracks.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You may think it is a cop out if you want, that is your choice. I could easily say that I disagree with you, but I did not. Take that as you will.
As to ballots, I agree that it should not be a majority of an minority. Not voting is the real cop out, in my opinion.
As to ballots, I agree that it should not be a majority of an minority. Not voting is the real cop out, in my opinion.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: -)
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don’t know whether to tell you this._ Certainly this is probably the last opportunity with Christmas coming tomorrow._ You may wish to give money to a good cause._ There is a good cause that is called Santascrew._ One of the management of this good cause has some views of British Airways, which he says has
It is not too late to donate to:-___link
a gutless and ruthless management that is so full of hatred it has not an ounce of humanity left within its very core. The hatred spreads nothing but negativity, it turns friends against friends and brothers against brothers. It eats away at you day by day until you are left with nothing but resentment and anger.
British Airways was once a caring company. Sadly now the hatred has set in.
So, if anyone wishes to donate then we thank you. If you don't then that's also fine with us but we wish you a Happy Christmas too.
Jon
British Airways was once a caring company. Sadly now the hatred has set in.
So, if anyone wishes to donate then we thank you. If you don't then that's also fine with us but we wish you a Happy Christmas too.
Jon
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: leafy suburbs
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Legal Ballot
A lot has been written about this latest ballot being potentially illegal due to voting papers going to former union members.
So would BA take the union to court again if the result was in favour of the union?
More to the point, would the union admit that the ballot was illegal if the result was in favour of the company so as to wriggle out of any possible sueing/writ by the company?
Stranger things do happen!
So would BA take the union to court again if the result was in favour of the union?
More to the point, would the union admit that the ballot was illegal if the result was in favour of the company so as to wriggle out of any possible sueing/writ by the company?
Stranger things do happen!