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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions III

Old 24th Oct 2010, 14:02
  #261 (permalink)  
 
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The veracity of such mutterings are always open to question on PPRuNe i.e. read the Red wording at the bottom of each page.

A closed court, in secret session - on matters such as staff travel. HOW pray tell can anyone believe it? It can happen but only in the mind. In this case it is about as real as a rainbow round the sun.

As for giving in! I doubt that WW has done that but I do think he has given great thought to it and decided that it is a concession he can live with because if it comes up again he will drop it in the laps of BASSA. Then see how long "5 minutes" lasts then!
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 17:40
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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From the Union:
Contained in the offer from Mr. Walsh, you will notice his insistence that your union recommends the offer or it will not be made available for you to vote on, denying you your democratic vote. For this reason alone, your union will fulfill (sic) that request, because to do otherwise would be to deny you an opportunity to vote."
Translation: "Our arms are being twisted, we have to be seen to recommend the offer, but you can imagine what we really think. We are giving you the opportunity to vote." ie (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) against the offer.

All BA Lawyers to Immediate Readiness!
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 17:53
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing new there, then. Just the usual denial of reality.

I'm always moved to [nervous mode] when I hear the word 'democratic'. It gets used so often in North Korea, Burma, Yemen and other well-known 'democratic' places.

I suspect BA's competent legal people will analyse every utterance, as they have over the last [how long?]
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 17:56
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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Granary

HOW pray tell can anyone believe it?
I can't quite believe the veracity of such an utterly preposterous notion is still being discussed to be honest.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 18:01
  #265 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Neptunus Rex View Post
From the Union:
Translation: "Our arms are being twisted, we have to be seen to recommend the offer, but you can imagine what we really think. We are giving you the opportunity to vote." ie (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) against the offer.

All BA Lawyers to Immediate Readiness!
Why would you say that? BASSA have recommended the proposal. I am surprised that it isn't being spun as capitulation.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 18:13
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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How can you call this a recommendation? ( my bold )

Contained in the offer from Mr. Walsh, you will notice his insistence that your union recommends the offer or it will not be made available for you to vote on, denying you your democratic vote. For this reason alone, your union will fulfill that request, because to do otherwise would be to deny you an opportunity to vote.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 18:19
  #267 (permalink)  
 
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Because is says your union recommends the offer.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 18:19
  #268 (permalink)  
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From the CC forum

So really BASSA are saying:

"We have been told we have to reccommend this offer to you, so we are, even though we don't want to, dont like it, and would really like you to vote against it, but can't say so"

Not really a ringing endorsement, is it?

I wonder if any reps are criticising the offer on the other forums?
I can't say that I disagree with that
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 18:30
  #269 (permalink)  
 
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Your union RECOMMENDS the offer. Now for any moderates who have any doubt over the choice that they need to make, just refer any questioning by fellow employees back to that statement.

It doesn't say recommends a bit, or we don't really recommend it. It is clear.

Just one more time, Your union RECOMMENDS the offer.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:21
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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Litebulbs:

The language used in Unite/BASSA's missive is unfortunate at best.

If the militants have their way and this goes to another strike you can see Mr. Holley's inability to negotiate and conduct himself as a professional come back to haunt them.

A shame to imagine what could have been accomplished had BASSA more capable leadership.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:29
  #271 (permalink)  
 
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The agreement that was forced on Willie Walsh.
This isnít just any crummy source of information._ This is from that most reliable source - Car Rentals.
:
The fact that the carrier has finally buckled goes against the word of its boss Willie Walsh, who had previously insisted that the perks would not be reinstated while ever he was at the helm.
I would invite BASSA to accept their victory and recommend a yes vote to their members (to accept the 15 October agreement) and ask them to celebrate BASSAís historic victory.
It is clear that the author of the quote above has not read the offer. i.e. the without seniority condition has obviously escaped his notice.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:29
  #272 (permalink)  
 
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Diplome

I think it is defining language. Whatever the implied taint, it still says recommend. I can just imagine the strong language from Unite to the BASSA representatives, especially as they could be employees soon!
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:30
  #273 (permalink)  
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you will notice his insistence that your union recommends the offer
I'm sorry but I struggle to see how shortening the above statement to

Your union RECOMMENDS the offer.
and making it into a complete sentence of it's own and at the same time changing it's meaning is correct.

The only positive statement from the union is contained in a part sentence
your union will fulfil that request
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:33
  #274 (permalink)  
 
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Have they recommended it, or not?
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:38
  #275 (permalink)  
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As they stated they have fulfilled Mr Walsh's request to recommend it - but without actually saying the words "We recommend this offer"

Pedantic I know.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:43
  #276 (permalink)  
 
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It can't be any clearer......The choice is now down to the members........The Union has officially recommended acceptance. People can still argue for or against a yes vote. There is nothing that BA lawyers or anyone else can do to stop that.
Personally I doubt Walsh said anything threatening about the deal. A deal is put there and the Union choose to recommend it or not.....Quite often the company will say the offer is subject to recommendation but never in a threatening way...That would be a sure way not to get a recommendation.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:44
  #277 (permalink)  
 
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We could be going for hours on this, not that I am stubborn!
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 19:46
  #278 (permalink)  
 
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Call100

It has always been the case in any offer that I have been involved with. It is due process.
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 20:59
  #279 (permalink)  
 
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Lightbulbs,

I have to disagree with you, BASSA wrote:

Contained in the offer from Mr. Walsh, you will notice his insistence that your union recommends the offer or it will not be made available for you to vote on, denying you your democratic vote. For this reason alone, your union will fulfill that request, because to do otherwise would be to deny you an opportunity to vote.


They are not recommending the offer they are just reporting on the conditions attached to the offer that must be fulfilled before the offer can be put to the membership. They use the phrase
"your union will fulfill that request" That is written in the future tense i.e. something that will occur at a later date and that has not yet happened.

Your highlighting part of a sentence is like reading only the bold text from the sentence below.

Mr Walsh categorically denied that he said that he really admired DH and that he looked forward to long and fruitful future discussions with him before going down the pub with him to discuss tomatoes.

Regards
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Old 24th Oct 2010, 21:03
  #280 (permalink)  
 
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binsleepin.

What did the offer say? It is only an offer if it has a recommendation. So if the offer goes out to ballot, then it will be recommended, else it will not be an offer.
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