Air France - Edinburgh to New York JFK via Paris
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I agree on Schiphol. I'm not the greatest fan of the KLM biz class seating, but still choose KLM over other airlines for the convenience factor. From the UK to International is the smoothest way to go, and I've made 20 min connections comfortably with all baggage. The other system I like there is that if you're inbound flight is delayed, you just rock upto the transfer machines in the lounge and print out a boarding pass for the next flight, everything sorted.
The other nice thing, when travelling hand baggage only on the cityhopper flights from the UK is the ability to drop your bag at the bottom of the steps and collect it on arrival. More airlines should offer this.
CDG is a nightmare....
HKG and SIN are very good.
The other nice thing, when travelling hand baggage only on the cityhopper flights from the UK is the ability to drop your bag at the bottom of the steps and collect it on arrival. More airlines should offer this.
CDG is a nightmare....
HKG and SIN are very good.
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SoulManBand
I have taken over 20 LH flights with AF, mostly to China and found them to be more than satisfactory. Maybe your standards are much higher than mine, or you've never been to Sheffield
Join Date: Feb 2001
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You can fly 'AF' without going via PAR if you travel on a codeshare.
We booked an elderly relative from the UK to CPT, on KLM flights via AMS. It happened to be cheaper by about £100 to book the flights on the AF website, so they were KL flights but with AF flight numbers.
On the way home in the car, one of his comments was : "I hadn't realised what a nice airport they had in Paris now....". He hadn't even realised he'd transited Schiphol!
We booked an elderly relative from the UK to CPT, on KLM flights via AMS. It happened to be cheaper by about £100 to book the flights on the AF website, so they were KL flights but with AF flight numbers.
On the way home in the car, one of his comments was : "I hadn't realised what a nice airport they had in Paris now....". He hadn't even realised he'd transited Schiphol!
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It really depends which terminal you go through at CDG. The terminal that Air France use is the best one, so hopefully you will be ok. If you arrive and depart from the same terminal it should be easy for you.
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AF use Terminal 2E, 2F and 2G that I know of and possibly others. Although both are Terminal 2, halls E and F run into each other but cover a very large area. Terminal 2G is a bus ride as it's t'other side of the airfield.
Arriving and departing from 2E sounds fine but from UK you have to clear passport control and pass security. There is a fast lane for short connections but EDI, ABZ arrive at remote stands and transport is not always immediately available on arrival. It's a lottery, you may make it with time to spare and wonder what all the fuss was about or.......................
Arriving and departing from 2E sounds fine but from UK you have to clear passport control and pass security. There is a fast lane for short connections but EDI, ABZ arrive at remote stands and transport is not always immediately available on arrival. It's a lottery, you may make it with time to spare and wonder what all the fuss was about or.......................
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The terminal that Air France use is the best one,
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CdG for a first time user is I agree a nightmare but having used it several times in recent years for both SH and LH flights I find it very easy to navigate.
As an example, going from Bilbao to Aberdeen via CdG:
Arrive 2G, board shuttle bus for 2E, no waiting as bus always there or arrives within one minute. Maximum 10 minutes to 2E where each gate or group of gates has it's own security.
2G catering with only one bar is limited to sandwiches and crisps etc. 2E being bigger has more choice and with a reasonable connection you can eat there before changing terminals.
As an example, going from Bilbao to Aberdeen via CdG:
Arrive 2G, board shuttle bus for 2E, no waiting as bus always there or arrives within one minute. Maximum 10 minutes to 2E where each gate or group of gates has it's own security.
2G catering with only one bar is limited to sandwiches and crisps etc. 2E being bigger has more choice and with a reasonable connection you can eat there before changing terminals.
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CdG for a first time user is I agree a nightmare but having used it several times in recent years for both SH and LH flights I find it very easy to navigate
Join Date: Jan 2005
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No, it's just more of a nightmare if you're a novice user, because you have to cope with the lousy signage and trying to get help from the rude staff.
Hand on heart I can say I haven't had rude staff problems. Security is a doddle compared to LHR, but then where isn't? The AF inflight magazine has maps of various airports including CdG which reduces the signage problem.
One thing that would help is the UK joining Schengen. I once did Bio to Abz via CdG/AMS because the direct Paris/Aberdeen connection was too short. Arriving Cdg I found the AMS flight departed from the adjoining pier of the same terminal which was a 10 minute walk from arrival gate to departure gate with neither passport control or security to go through.
It doesn't get much better than that.
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Plenty of time
I have done the F to E transfer for a US flight twice last year and it took 45 minutes to get from plane to gate, including a bus transfer one of the two times, and all the security checks. However, I was in business which let me use a fast lane for passport and security. French queueing discipline being what it is, you can jump if in a rush and not too many people will mind.
However, I actually missed my flights both times. (GVA-GDG-Houston) and they moved me to a later flight, frustrating since the plane was still at the gate the second time, but they would not let me on as they had assumed that I would not make the transfer. My inbound delays were due to strikes, an Air France strike the first time and an air traffic controller strike the second time. Strikes are the main reason to avoid flights with transfers in France. You just never know whether you will be affected as there are so many moving parts, all with aggressive unions.
However, I actually missed my flights both times. (GVA-GDG-Houston) and they moved me to a later flight, frustrating since the plane was still at the gate the second time, but they would not let me on as they had assumed that I would not make the transfer. My inbound delays were due to strikes, an Air France strike the first time and an air traffic controller strike the second time. Strikes are the main reason to avoid flights with transfers in France. You just never know whether you will be affected as there are so many moving parts, all with aggressive unions.
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Starting Blocks
I note that you're only a novice here with the grand sum of 2 posts. Maybe you'll grow up one day. Have you ever actually transited a major international hub or is your experience limited to Southampton or somewhere like that?
Before you dish out rudeness and sarcasm, you might like to consider the many variables, which however often one transits a hub, can cause confusion. 'Getting used to it' would be possible if always transiting between the same inbound and outbound flights, and if those flights always arrived at and departed from the same gates.
Things change as parts of the airport fall on peoples' heads, are rebuilt, and so on.
I wouldn't expect you to have much grasp of that though, so maybe you should just go back to your MS Flight Simulator and play nicely.
I note that you're only a novice here with the grand sum of 2 posts. Maybe you'll grow up one day. Have you ever actually transited a major international hub or is your experience limited to Southampton or somewhere like that?
Before you dish out rudeness and sarcasm, you might like to consider the many variables, which however often one transits a hub, can cause confusion. 'Getting used to it' would be possible if always transiting between the same inbound and outbound flights, and if those flights always arrived at and departed from the same gates.
Things change as parts of the airport fall on peoples' heads, are rebuilt, and so on.
I wouldn't expect you to have much grasp of that though, so maybe you should just go back to your MS Flight Simulator and play nicely.
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Aaaand back to topic
Thanks to the Moderator btw...
I travelled through CDG only once, the new terminal (forgot the number, 2F maybe?) from PSA via CDG to JFK. The architecture was interesting but I completely agree with the prior posts regarding the foot. I though this was Paris, one of the cities for foodies - but... Worse than any US terminal. No selection. One deserted cantine-like place with old food and one cafe which was terribly over prized. But tens of duty-free shops which had better food to offer than any of the places in the terminal (the 2 that is...). Wouldn't go through CDG again per choice, only if no other way possible (like going to Paris). AF didn't stand out particularly as either bad or good. I remember I sat at the exit row and the seats seem smaller than Lufthansa's, first thought its one of the seats for the CC...
I travelled through CDG only once, the new terminal (forgot the number, 2F maybe?) from PSA via CDG to JFK. The architecture was interesting but I completely agree with the prior posts regarding the foot. I though this was Paris, one of the cities for foodies - but... Worse than any US terminal. No selection. One deserted cantine-like place with old food and one cafe which was terribly over prized. But tens of duty-free shops which had better food to offer than any of the places in the terminal (the 2 that is...). Wouldn't go through CDG again per choice, only if no other way possible (like going to Paris). AF didn't stand out particularly as either bad or good. I remember I sat at the exit row and the seats seem smaller than Lufthansa's, first thought its one of the seats for the CC...
Last edited by grimmrad; 31st Aug 2010 at 19:26. Reason: addition
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Totally agree with the general trend :
- AF are good, ranging from "fair" to "extremely good", depending on the people, the day, and on how staffed they are (I found them very understaffed in certain circumstances that would have deserved some big guys and solid ground personnel assistance). Good airline.
- CDG is an absolute shame for this country. How come the heads of this airport have not been fired and sued for incompetence remains a major question mark. Very few shopping facilities, rude personnel, stinking spots, very complicated. It seems like everything was thought in way that would make passenger travel a painful experience. This airport is just ridiculous. Sad thing AF have to deal with such a poor "provider". LH would not cope.
- AF are good, ranging from "fair" to "extremely good", depending on the people, the day, and on how staffed they are (I found them very understaffed in certain circumstances that would have deserved some big guys and solid ground personnel assistance). Good airline.
- CDG is an absolute shame for this country. How come the heads of this airport have not been fired and sued for incompetence remains a major question mark. Very few shopping facilities, rude personnel, stinking spots, very complicated. It seems like everything was thought in way that would make passenger travel a painful experience. This airport is just ridiculous. Sad thing AF have to deal with such a poor "provider". LH would not cope.
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I have just flown LHR - CDG - LHR on the Air France A380. This was only to fly the A380 (sad I know), but will more than likely be the only time I will fly to CDG. Terminal 2E is one of the most expensive departure halls I have ever been to. Most restaurants were charging around 8-9 euros for a small piece of cake. The restaurant upstairs, around 10 euros for a piece of pizza/lasagne etc. We spent 15 euros for a couple of chocolate bars and packet of crisps (healthy option).
The positives though, Heathrow couldn't have been easier, staff very polite, no queues at check in, or security, and plenty of places to eat/drink at reasonable prices. Air France itself were great, we may have been lucky as the A380 was more of a promotion flight for Air France though.
The positives though, Heathrow couldn't have been easier, staff very polite, no queues at check in, or security, and plenty of places to eat/drink at reasonable prices. Air France itself were great, we may have been lucky as the A380 was more of a promotion flight for Air France though.
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do agree that cdg is not the most convenient place to connect. However, things tend to improve for AF-AF connections with AF gradually grouping operations around 2E / 2F. 2G (regional flights) is "in the pampa". IMHO the rudest people around the place are the "PAF" (police). Do not ever even think of complaining, you could easily get into trouble !
