BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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And back on to the thread. As an occasional BA flyer (fly to YYC and they have the best times) but one who has made it to the dizzy heights of Sliver Club I so hope that the end is soon for this farce that is laughably called Industrial Action. I would say in-action but....
The question is would other departments going on strike not be considered secondary action, giving BA even wide legal basis to sue Unite???
I would be very interested in what the other Reps tell TW, will he go public if they all tell him to sod off and tell BAASA to stop being so stupid. That would make me smile. In fact the very fact he has come out in public about this does he stand the Union in to danger.
The question is would other departments going on strike not be considered secondary action, giving BA even wide legal basis to sue Unite???
I would be very interested in what the other Reps tell TW, will he go public if they all tell him to sod off and tell BAASA to stop being so stupid. That would make me smile. In fact the very fact he has come out in public about this does he stand the Union in to danger.
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Which means I am nearly rich......
If only BA would ring up Unite and say "Right prove you have the numbers and are able to represent the workforce... Sorry you don't know the numbers. Well thank you but goodbye."
I still think the smart move for BA would be to start a worker council at Gatwick. Get a proper run inclusive working committee with reps across the cabin crew ie not just CSDs. With modern digital systems any collective agreements could be sent to the cabin crew via internal email for them to all vote for what they want. My god real democracy in BA Cabin Crew.
If only BA would ring up Unite and say "Right prove you have the numbers and are able to represent the workforce... Sorry you don't know the numbers. Well thank you but goodbye."
I still think the smart move for BA would be to start a worker council at Gatwick. Get a proper run inclusive working committee with reps across the cabin crew ie not just CSDs. With modern digital systems any collective agreements could be sent to the cabin crew via internal email for them to all vote for what they want. My god real democracy in BA Cabin Crew.
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Roccoreid
I take it you joined up when Icarus was just finishing basic, you where in Bagdad when he was in his Dads bag, when God said let there be light you were the Duty Sparky etc etc...................
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I can only offer humble apologies if I have offended a Crab. No malice was meant it is just the Armed Forces humour that we Matelots and or the Pongos are famous for.
Mind you MPN11 chinagraphs still very much the weapon of choice. It does tend to upset the maintainers when you use in on a plastic LCD screen but hay life in a blue suit. I also have that warm feeling when ever I need to unravel a bit more of the paper from the end of the pencil. Don't know why.
Mind you MPN11 chinagraphs still very much the weapon of choice. It does tend to upset the maintainers when you use in on a plastic LCD screen but hay life in a blue suit. I also have that warm feeling when ever I need to unravel a bit more of the paper from the end of the pencil. Don't know why.
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Never let the WAFU's forget they are Warfare Officers with an Adqual.
Back on thread. To fellow SLF, though I thought it was Self Loading Cargo, who use BA for business are you seeing or even doing yourselves a decline in booking BA for fear of a strike? Or does the business world have confidence that BA will ride out the strike??
Back on thread. To fellow SLF, though I thought it was Self Loading Cargo, who use BA for business are you seeing or even doing yourselves a decline in booking BA for fear of a strike? Or does the business world have confidence that BA will ride out the strike??
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BASSA'S inflated membership numbers are not as bad as Unite's inflated claims on their homepage
"Unite is the largest trade union in Britain and Ireland with almost 2 million members" - the TUC records show Unite as having 1,557,892 members.
"Unite is the largest trade union in Britain and Ireland with almost 2 million members" - the TUC records show Unite as having 1,557,892 members.
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Interesting viewpoint Baggersup. I'm just wondering if this is actually an attempt by Tony Woodley to show BASSA how out of step they are.
I don't know the history behind the other branches of Unite who operate at BA. If they are all ex-TGWU folk, then they will have a degree of alliegance towards Woodley as he was their GS. If they are ex Amicus, it may prove more difficult.
If the reps all turn round and point out that they have had no problems with BA and maybe it's the BASSA leadership who are the cause of friction, then Woodley can use that to push BASSA to accept a deal. Moreover, it allows the other reps to give the BASSA exec a hard time. The non-cabin crew areas must be pretty hacked off if they are losing members because of staff's disgust with BASSA. So it could be an opportunity for administering a quiet kicking to BASSA.
The only other thought I had was that for cabin crew to win this dispute, Unite need to be able to bring the airline to a standstill. They clearly can't do that by calling out just cabin crew as has been evidenced by recent attempts. They need to find a cause that is a) new and b) sufficiently emotive to get the support of all union members. The suggestion that BA is actively trying to remove union recognition from a chunk of the workforce is about the only game Woodley has to play with. It's a charge which is pretty flimsy, as is the suggestion that if BA could achieve this with cabin crew, other areas would not be safe. Because it is so weak I come back to my initial hypothesis, that Woodley wants the reps to see the whole thing as a bit of a farce and turn their guns on BASSA. That means he can tell them to stop messing around and settle. Bear in mind that Wille Walsh has said all along that if it were purely up to himself and Tony Woodley, this whole deal would have been settled ages ago, it's the fact that BASSA have the power of veto over any deal drawn up by them that has protracted things
I don't know the history behind the other branches of Unite who operate at BA. If they are all ex-TGWU folk, then they will have a degree of alliegance towards Woodley as he was their GS. If they are ex Amicus, it may prove more difficult.
If the reps all turn round and point out that they have had no problems with BA and maybe it's the BASSA leadership who are the cause of friction, then Woodley can use that to push BASSA to accept a deal. Moreover, it allows the other reps to give the BASSA exec a hard time. The non-cabin crew areas must be pretty hacked off if they are losing members because of staff's disgust with BASSA. So it could be an opportunity for administering a quiet kicking to BASSA.
The only other thought I had was that for cabin crew to win this dispute, Unite need to be able to bring the airline to a standstill. They clearly can't do that by calling out just cabin crew as has been evidenced by recent attempts. They need to find a cause that is a) new and b) sufficiently emotive to get the support of all union members. The suggestion that BA is actively trying to remove union recognition from a chunk of the workforce is about the only game Woodley has to play with. It's a charge which is pretty flimsy, as is the suggestion that if BA could achieve this with cabin crew, other areas would not be safe. Because it is so weak I come back to my initial hypothesis, that Woodley wants the reps to see the whole thing as a bit of a farce and turn their guns on BASSA. That means he can tell them to stop messing around and settle. Bear in mind that Wille Walsh has said all along that if it were purely up to himself and Tony Woodley, this whole deal would have been settled ages ago, it's the fact that BASSA have the power of veto over any deal drawn up by them that has protracted things
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I've been out of the loop for a while and have some catching up to do.
Is this still the same strike action that started last year? It's all rather confusing as months seem to go by without any media coverage, actual strike action taking place or BA flights being affected.
Is this still the same strike action that started last year? It's all rather confusing as months seem to go by without any media coverage, actual strike action taking place or BA flights being affected.
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@ Roccoreid ...
I am seeing positive effects and growing confidence. I put a hold on my company's forward booking with BA for a while, but lifted that a couple of months ago. I'm also booking ahead for personal trips [later this month and next April].
I have the feeling that most people are now doing the same thing, as BA has shown that it can operate credible schedules during periods of BASAA disruption. I flew TATL with BA during the last strike period ... we had a bit of multiple re-booking as the schedules were fine-tuned, but eventually flew virtually as scheduled [just had to come back one day early].
The BASSA game is virtually over. It will be interesting to see what support Woodley gets for a Unite-wide attack on BA; I'm guessing most employees are likely to vote for having a job!
Back on thread. To fellow SLF, though I thought it was Self Loading Cargo, who use BA for business are you seeing or even doing yourselves a decline in booking BA for fear of a strike? Or does the business world have confidence that BA will ride out the strike??
I have the feeling that most people are now doing the same thing, as BA has shown that it can operate credible schedules during periods of BASAA disruption. I flew TATL with BA during the last strike period ... we had a bit of multiple re-booking as the schedules were fine-tuned, but eventually flew virtually as scheduled [just had to come back one day early].
The BASSA game is virtually over. It will be interesting to see what support Woodley gets for a Unite-wide attack on BA; I'm guessing most employees are likely to vote for having a job!
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Woodley states the following....................................
This must surely come under the heading of 2ndry action. BA's lawyers will be looking forward to this, always assuming that the other leaders don't tell him to go take a jump.
"I am therefore calling an early meeting of representatives of all Unite BA members to set out the facts of what is happening in the company, in particular what I believe, in the absence of any serious proposals from the company to settle the dispute, is a plan to eliminate Unite from a sizeable part of the company and weakening the position of the union in the remainder, and to discuss the need for a coordinated and concerted union response.
"While it remains my hope that an agreement can be reached with the company, BA’s conduct makes it inevitable that we prepare for other outcomes.”
"While it remains my hope that an agreement can be reached with the company, BA’s conduct makes it inevitable that we prepare for other outcomes.”
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my thoughts exactly, F84, and methinks there will be a fair chance the other BA branches will tell him to "Foxtrot Oscar" after the way BASSA have happily insulted, etc, those members who have signed deals, worked as volunteers during the strike, etc.
Methinks membership numbers might be about to take a tumble
Methinks membership numbers might be about to take a tumble
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If the reps all turn round and point out that they have had no problems with BA and maybe it's the BASSA leadership who are the cause of friction, then Woodley can use that to push BASSA to accept a deal. Moreover, it allows the other reps to give the BASSA exec a hard time.
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Do the deals Unite have agreed for other staff include any pay rise? I ask as the offer to CC does (not that they have accepted it - other than the non union CC) My husband said there was some dissatisfaction that CC were at least offered 3% rises, presumably because they still have some 'clout', and others have been offered less. But if it's simply 'held up' he may just be insufficiently informed. Feeling that CC have already got more offered than them may make the rest unlikely to back CC, but...
Staff travel could be an issue, it's clear that any other branches that may at some time in the future have a genuine greivance and need to strike, will also lose staff travel, once BA have done that successfully once, it will become the norm. Hubby feels most people he talks to do not actually agree with permanent loss of staff travel seniority as a punishment for IA. However much 'they were warned' and know it's not contractual, it is still a punishment.
Woodley has been quite reasonable during negotiations and all but did a deal with Walsh just before the first strike, which was scuppered by BASSA and McCluskey, but I feel he is genuinely angered by the staff travel position. Possibly he would have accepted the ACAS observers re the disciplinaries, as BA offered, rather than ACAS actually mediating them as BASSA want, if the staff travel were returned (although whether he could sell it to BASSA remains doubtful)
However, if the rest of BA backed CC on loss of staff travel to the point of striking, their own staff travel would go immediately, rather than a 'maybe' in the future, unless they won. BA can't afford to back down, they'd lose all credibility in the city, with passengers, share price etc. Personally I hope the others don't back CC, and doubt they would if push came to shove, but there are issues.
Staff travel could be an issue, it's clear that any other branches that may at some time in the future have a genuine greivance and need to strike, will also lose staff travel, once BA have done that successfully once, it will become the norm. Hubby feels most people he talks to do not actually agree with permanent loss of staff travel seniority as a punishment for IA. However much 'they were warned' and know it's not contractual, it is still a punishment.
Woodley has been quite reasonable during negotiations and all but did a deal with Walsh just before the first strike, which was scuppered by BASSA and McCluskey, but I feel he is genuinely angered by the staff travel position. Possibly he would have accepted the ACAS observers re the disciplinaries, as BA offered, rather than ACAS actually mediating them as BASSA want, if the staff travel were returned (although whether he could sell it to BASSA remains doubtful)
However, if the rest of BA backed CC on loss of staff travel to the point of striking, their own staff travel would go immediately, rather than a 'maybe' in the future, unless they won. BA can't afford to back down, they'd lose all credibility in the city, with passengers, share price etc. Personally I hope the others don't back CC, and doubt they would if push came to shove, but there are issues.
Last edited by just an observer; 11th Sep 2010 at 16:01.
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BBC Ceefax
" The Policy Exchange suggests 40% of the trade union members in a workforce should be required to vote for a strike for it to be valid."
The TUC claimed it was " a crude attack on workplace rights."
What is not explained is what represents a workforce, but I would think it relates solely to the section in dispute; eg BA cabin crew and BASSA.
A simple majority when electing MPs is deemed acceptable ( for the time being ), but in industrial disputes it's wide open to abuse particularly when ex-union members are still receiving documents from Unite/Bassa.
" The Policy Exchange suggests 40% of the trade union members in a workforce should be required to vote for a strike for it to be valid."
The TUC claimed it was " a crude attack on workplace rights."
What is not explained is what represents a workforce, but I would think it relates solely to the section in dispute; eg BA cabin crew and BASSA.
A simple majority when electing MPs is deemed acceptable ( for the time being ), but in industrial disputes it's wide open to abuse particularly when ex-union members are still receiving documents from Unite/Bassa.
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This is why trade unions have learnt nothing from the past. I am sure most would agree that Labour were going to loose the last election and would then hand legislative power back to the right. What do you need to pass even more laws to restrict collective strength, than a couple of high profile strikes (BASSA and RMT). When I say collective strength, I am talking about individual rights being put forward collectively. This is where the unions and New Labour had there disconnect and if the left can't agree with each other, there is no way that the current Government are going to further increase individual rights, over that of business.
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The sadness in all of this is that it's not actually about Left or Right, Bosses and Workers, Cloth Caps and Bowlers. More and more it seems to be about an individual expressing, and manifesting, "power".
If there wasn't a Unite leadership election?
If there wasn't a new Tory Government?
I honestly believe that the actual concerns of the working people out there are frequently completely ignored, and that internal power-struggles are what really matter to Union leaders. And, given the benefits they enjoy [salaries, housing, pensions] that's hardly surprising.
If I was a high-level Union Rep, I would certainly be looking to become the Gen Sec of Unite ... with all the benefits that brings. I wouldn't give a tinkers' cuss for the people on the shop floor, in case some pirrock like DH damaged my climb up the greasy pole to the top.
And, of course, the same principle applies to every and any aspiring pole-climber, regardless of the environment.
God knows I've worked under a few of those in my lifetime
If there wasn't a Unite leadership election?
If there wasn't a new Tory Government?
I honestly believe that the actual concerns of the working people out there are frequently completely ignored, and that internal power-struggles are what really matter to Union leaders. And, given the benefits they enjoy [salaries, housing, pensions] that's hardly surprising.
If I was a high-level Union Rep, I would certainly be looking to become the Gen Sec of Unite ... with all the benefits that brings. I wouldn't give a tinkers' cuss for the people on the shop floor, in case some pirrock like DH damaged my climb up the greasy pole to the top.
And, of course, the same principle applies to every and any aspiring pole-climber, regardless of the environment.
God knows I've worked under a few of those in my lifetime