BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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Regarding the Unite memo, the press can deploy some very underhand methods of obtaining information from people and organisations (and for them it just their day to day way of conducting themselves, rather than by exception), so just because confidential information was obtained by the press, it doesn't necessarily mean that it was deliberately leaked as part of a smear campaign.
I struggle to believe journalists would tell Unite where they got their informaton problem. An absolutely fundamental and guarded principle of journalism is that sources are not revealed.
Also, there is an element of hyprocrisy about the reps' grievance. Given the way they have conducted their campaign and smeared its senior management (references to "Oily Bill" etc, WW portrayed as Adolf Hitler), they have got a taste of their own medicine. I note that the basis of their complaint is not that any of the information supplied regarding their attendance at work was inaccurate.
I struggle to believe journalists would tell Unite where they got their informaton problem. An absolutely fundamental and guarded principle of journalism is that sources are not revealed.
Also, there is an element of hyprocrisy about the reps' grievance. Given the way they have conducted their campaign and smeared its senior management (references to "Oily Bill" etc, WW portrayed as Adolf Hitler), they have got a taste of their own medicine. I note that the basis of their complaint is not that any of the information supplied regarding their attendance at work was inaccurate.
Last edited by LD12986; 4th Sep 2010 at 23:26.
Junior trash
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To the tune of "oh your wife is looking grumpy down the back" (coming round the mountain if you prefer)
Our commute takes hours longer on the coach
Our commute takes hours longer on the coach
We leave before it's light when we used to get a flight
Our commute takes hours longer on the coach.
Our commute takes hours longer on the coach
Our commute takes hours longer on the coach
We leave before it's light when we used to get a flight
Our commute takes hours longer on the coach.
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Before I join in the sing-song, I apologise. I've had a few...
I'm meeting Duncan in the morning
Ding dong, Lizanne is gonna cry
Show me the tackle
Whilst the rest of them cackle
just get me voting one more time
Sorry I can't make it pretty and red as on iPhone.
I'm meeting Duncan in the morning
Ding dong, Lizanne is gonna cry
Show me the tackle
Whilst the rest of them cackle
just get me voting one more time
Sorry I can't make it pretty and red as on iPhone.
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O'Leary obviously hasn't taken BASSA into account.
"But she's sleeping"......
"But she's sleeping"......
Airline pilots have accused Ryanair's Michael O'Leary of endangering passengers' safety after he called for co-pilots to be replaced with air stewardesses.
Michael O'Leary has been criticised for his suggestion to abolish co-pilots.
Dismissing the vital role of second pilots, Mr O'Leary suggested money could be saved by getting rid of them all together.
If the pilot were to run into problems he suggested an air stewardess, trained to land the plane, could step in.
However, his flippant comments have led to outcry among pilots, who claim the decision would put passengers' lives at risk.
The British Airline Pilots' Association said the move would be "unwise and unsafe" with one senior pilot going as far as to say it would be a "recipe for business disaster."
The Ryanair boss, who has headed the airline for 17 years, made the comments in an interview with Bloomberg Businessweek magazine.
"Really, you only need one pilot. Let's take out the second pilot. Let the bloody computer fly it," he said.
"If the pilot has an emergency, he rings the bell, he calls her in, she could take over."
A BALPA spokesman condemned the comments, saying: "Are there no lengths to which he will not go to get publicity?
"His suggestion is unwise, unsafe and the public will be horrified."
A senior pilot, who wished to remain anonymous, also criticised the move, saying: "The public have no wish to be flown at cheap rate into their graves."
He said that although Mr O'Leary may think "he will be laughing all the way to the bank", he would in fact see a worried public "desert him".
"In reality, it would be a recipe for business disaster, with the public deserting the airline in droves."
This is not the first time the Ryanair boss has landed himself in hot water with controversial comments, deigned to create maximum publicity for the airline.
Mr O'Leary has already suggested the airline reduce the number of toilets on board and make them coin operated to bring in more money.
He also put forward plans for stand-up space on flights, an idea that was rubbished by the European Aviation Safety Agency.
Michael O'Leary has been criticised for his suggestion to abolish co-pilots.
Dismissing the vital role of second pilots, Mr O'Leary suggested money could be saved by getting rid of them all together.
If the pilot were to run into problems he suggested an air stewardess, trained to land the plane, could step in.
However, his flippant comments have led to outcry among pilots, who claim the decision would put passengers' lives at risk.
The British Airline Pilots' Association said the move would be "unwise and unsafe" with one senior pilot going as far as to say it would be a "recipe for business disaster."
The Ryanair boss, who has headed the airline for 17 years, made the comments in an interview with Bloomberg Businessweek magazine.
"Really, you only need one pilot. Let's take out the second pilot. Let the bloody computer fly it," he said.
"If the pilot has an emergency, he rings the bell, he calls her in, she could take over."
A BALPA spokesman condemned the comments, saying: "Are there no lengths to which he will not go to get publicity?
"His suggestion is unwise, unsafe and the public will be horrified."
A senior pilot, who wished to remain anonymous, also criticised the move, saying: "The public have no wish to be flown at cheap rate into their graves."
He said that although Mr O'Leary may think "he will be laughing all the way to the bank", he would in fact see a worried public "desert him".
"In reality, it would be a recipe for business disaster, with the public deserting the airline in droves."
This is not the first time the Ryanair boss has landed himself in hot water with controversial comments, deigned to create maximum publicity for the airline.
Mr O'Leary has already suggested the airline reduce the number of toilets on board and make them coin operated to bring in more money.
He also put forward plans for stand-up space on flights, an idea that was rubbished by the European Aviation Safety Agency.
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Unite Anger At Ba Surveillance Of Crew
Latest From rge Bassa Mod -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010 ... ce-dispute
Unite anger at alleged BA surveillance of cabin crew
Union considers fresh strike ballot over "human rights violation * Dan Milmo * The Observer, Sunday 5 September 2010
Unite anger at alleged BA surveillance of cabin crew.
The Unite trade union is considering a new strike ballot of British Airways cabin crew over the airline's alleged anti-union activities.
The move comes amid allegations from Unite that BA has subjected at least two crew members to surveillance at their own homes and has prevented shop stewards from representing staff.
Officials are expected to raise the issue at a meeting of Unite-affiliated cabin crew at London's Kempton Park racecourse tomorrow, where cabin crew will wear yellow ribbons in solidarity with colleagues who have been sacked or suspended since the dispute began. However, Unite's joint general secretaries, Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson, are holding out for a peace deal.
A dispute over reductions in costs is mired in wrangles over sanctions against staff who joined 22 days of strikes earlier this year, and disciplinary proceedings against flight attendants over alleged misdemeanours during the dispute.
The latest allegation from Unite's main cabin crew branch, Bassa, focuses on BA's security department, called Asset Protection.
According to last month's Bassa newsletter, two members facing disciplinary action were followed to their homes. "Two more crew members reported to the police that they had been the subject of an ongoing surveillance at their own homes by BA's shadowy 'Asset Protection' department," the newsletter says, adding that members have seen photographic evidence of this.
Last week, Bassa appealed for cabin crew to volunteer as shop stewards because it has lost key members to sackings or suspensions, including the official in charge of representing staff in disciplinary hearings.
BA declined to comment on the surveillance allegations. A spokesperson said: "Investigations into any allegations are conducted under the company's disciplinary procedures, which are agreed with all our unions, including Unite."
A spokesperson for Unite said: "BA is crossing a line. It is moving on from violating people's rights at work to violating their human rights."
Unite anger at alleged BA surveillance of cabin crew
Union considers fresh strike ballot over "human rights violation * Dan Milmo * The Observer, Sunday 5 September 2010
Unite anger at alleged BA surveillance of cabin crew.
The Unite trade union is considering a new strike ballot of British Airways cabin crew over the airline's alleged anti-union activities.
The move comes amid allegations from Unite that BA has subjected at least two crew members to surveillance at their own homes and has prevented shop stewards from representing staff.
Officials are expected to raise the issue at a meeting of Unite-affiliated cabin crew at London's Kempton Park racecourse tomorrow, where cabin crew will wear yellow ribbons in solidarity with colleagues who have been sacked or suspended since the dispute began. However, Unite's joint general secretaries, Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson, are holding out for a peace deal.
A dispute over reductions in costs is mired in wrangles over sanctions against staff who joined 22 days of strikes earlier this year, and disciplinary proceedings against flight attendants over alleged misdemeanours during the dispute.
The latest allegation from Unite's main cabin crew branch, Bassa, focuses on BA's security department, called Asset Protection.
According to last month's Bassa newsletter, two members facing disciplinary action were followed to their homes. "Two more crew members reported to the police that they had been the subject of an ongoing surveillance at their own homes by BA's shadowy 'Asset Protection' department," the newsletter says, adding that members have seen photographic evidence of this.
Last week, Bassa appealed for cabin crew to volunteer as shop stewards because it has lost key members to sackings or suspensions, including the official in charge of representing staff in disciplinary hearings.
BA declined to comment on the surveillance allegations. A spokesperson said: "Investigations into any allegations are conducted under the company's disciplinary procedures, which are agreed with all our unions, including Unite."
A spokesperson for Unite said: "BA is crossing a line. It is moving on from violating people's rights at work to violating their human rights."
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Historian Andrew Murray - Director of Communications Unite
Wapedia - Wiki: Andrew Murray (campaigner and journalist)
Also
Charlie Whelan's back pulling the strings again - Telegraph
"At a meeting in 2008, Mr Simpson likened some of Mr Woodley’s staff to the SS. “While I understand that it is Derek’s way to 'joke’ about things,” gritted Mr Woodley, “I have told him that such comments are inappropriate.” One union historian, Andrew Murray, joked that he was working on the history of Unite, “to be published by Mills & Boon”."
Wapedia - Wiki: Andrew Murray (campaigner and journalist)
Also
Charlie Whelan's back pulling the strings again - Telegraph
"At a meeting in 2008, Mr Simpson likened some of Mr Woodley’s staff to the SS. “While I understand that it is Derek’s way to 'joke’ about things,” gritted Mr Woodley, “I have told him that such comments are inappropriate.” One union historian, Andrew Murray, joked that he was working on the history of Unite, “to be published by Mills & Boon”."
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If Unite/BASSA truly felt that there members civil rights were being violated wouldn't they have initiated a proceeding by now?
All seems smoke and mirrors in their communication. No hard facts, no specifics...even this allegation:
could be something as simple as an investigation into abuse of medical leave, etc...
The problem with Unite/BASSA and their allegations is that for the most part they provide no evidence..just rumour.
"She knows Jane Doe, who used to date Frank, who is a fan of the same football team as Willie Walsh's second cousin" just doesn't cut it.
All seems smoke and mirrors in their communication. No hard facts, no specifics...even this allegation:
"Two more crew members reported to the police that they had been the subject of an ongoing surveillance at their own homes by BA's shadowy 'Asset Protection' department," the newsletter says, adding that members have seen photographic evidence
The problem with Unite/BASSA and their allegations is that for the most part they provide no evidence..just rumour.
"She knows Jane Doe, who used to date Frank, who is a fan of the same football team as Willie Walsh's second cousin" just doesn't cut it.
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And indeed, Diplome, there lies the problem [ooops, sits the problem].
Over the last year or so there has been so many lies [yes, lies such as Cardiff and Shannon] and bullshot emerging from BASSA that they have created a scenario where the first reaction from anyone not at the 'core' is to dismiss ANY statement as a lie.
Ignoring who had lunch with whom, I could believe that BA would indeed employ 'Asset Protection' to ensure the sick, lame or whatever were actually in that condition. Remember the recent case about some guy on Disability Benefits, running the touchline at a Rugby match?
However, I doubt we shall ever hear the full story/stories. Personal confidentiality will be maintained up to the point where 'affirmative action' is taken, and even then we will probably never know.
Over the last year or so there has been so many lies [yes, lies such as Cardiff and Shannon] and bullshot emerging from BASSA that they have created a scenario where the first reaction from anyone not at the 'core' is to dismiss ANY statement as a lie.
Ignoring who had lunch with whom, I could believe that BA would indeed employ 'Asset Protection' to ensure the sick, lame or whatever were actually in that condition. Remember the recent case about some guy on Disability Benefits, running the touchline at a Rugby match?
However, I doubt we shall ever hear the full story/stories. Personal confidentiality will be maintained up to the point where 'affirmative action' is taken, and even then we will probably never know.
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Interesting
Just read the piece on the other thread, which I assume is BASSA Comms (although this isn't explicitly said).
It's very interesting isn't it...... the tone I mean, reading between the lines.
I'm sure everybody would want a crew member (VCC or otherwise) to be proficient in the safety aspects of the flight and aeroplane they are travelling on.
But the way the message is phrased is almost like saying to the senior crew member, with a nudge and a wink, "pick on these VCC's and be sure to ask them safety questions" - In the veiled hope I presume of tripping some of them up and getting them kicked off the aeroplane.
I wonder how normal, asking questions of crew like this actually is on a day to day basis. If it's normally done at every briefing then fine, it should continue.
I just felt it was a way of sticking the boot into VCC's 'legitimately'
It's very interesting isn't it...... the tone I mean, reading between the lines.
I'm sure everybody would want a crew member (VCC or otherwise) to be proficient in the safety aspects of the flight and aeroplane they are travelling on.
But the way the message is phrased is almost like saying to the senior crew member, with a nudge and a wink, "pick on these VCC's and be sure to ask them safety questions" - In the veiled hope I presume of tripping some of them up and getting them kicked off the aeroplane.
I wonder how normal, asking questions of crew like this actually is on a day to day basis. If it's normally done at every briefing then fine, it should continue.
I just felt it was a way of sticking the boot into VCC's 'legitimately'
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Any individual foolish enough to harrass VCC with questions and grilling not required or routinely asked of other Cabin Crew may find themselves in a rather difficult position.
BASSA has seen the result of many of their members less than professional conduct, suspensions and terminations...but do they ever learn?
I'm hoping that BA is as ahead of the game as they have been in the past regarding BASSA's exploits and has necessary protection measures in place.
With every communication such as this that I read I am more wishful that I never had to fly with such coarse, manipulative and thuggish individuals. I just have to keep repeating to myself "Its not all cabin crew, its not all cabin crew, its not all cabin crew".
BASSA has seen the result of many of their members less than professional conduct, suspensions and terminations...but do they ever learn?
I'm hoping that BA is as ahead of the game as they have been in the past regarding BASSA's exploits and has necessary protection measures in place.
With every communication such as this that I read I am more wishful that I never had to fly with such coarse, manipulative and thuggish individuals. I just have to keep repeating to myself "Its not all cabin crew, its not all cabin crew, its not all cabin crew".
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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I wonder how normal, asking questions of crew like this actually is on a day to day basis. If it's normally done at every briefing then fine, it should continue.
I just felt it was a way of sticking the boot into VCC's 'legitimately'
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That may be true, but BASSA militants are not allowed to create a separate class of cabin crew.
This is going to be interesting. If BASSA can't restrain themselves, and I'm not optomistic about their capability in that regard, the recordings should be interesting.
Are VCC receiving any special instructions regarding how to deal with this rather special work environment?
This is going to be interesting. If BASSA can't restrain themselves, and I'm not optomistic about their capability in that regard, the recordings should be interesting.
Are VCC receiving any special instructions regarding how to deal with this rather special work environment?
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As SLF, I would [ignorantly] guess that the VCC, being in an unfamiliar environment, spend a lot more time poring over the manuals than some of the supremely self-confident narcissist militants.
And BASSA would certainly seem to have issued a hint about where the next rabid dog-bite might be coming from ... so the VCC have been pre-warned.
Is this the next 'excuse' for IA, one wonders?
And BASSA would certainly seem to have issued a hint about where the next rabid dog-bite might be coming from ... so the VCC have been pre-warned.
Is this the next 'excuse' for IA, one wonders?
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MPN11:
It's an interesting situation and I expect BA to be ready.
It brings to mind a situation that occurred this year in a facility with a rather sensitive mission. There was an objection by a group of individuals regarding the transfer of a certain group. During daily safety briefings recordings were made of supervisor instructions after complaints from some employees. Next thing..the hammer drops..two supervisors dismissed, another disciplined.
I'm sure BA understands the regulations, but I'm not so sure of BASSA. They seem to operate much more on an emotional level rather than thinking through the consequences of their actions.
Unfortunate that VCC have to deal with this.
It's an interesting situation and I expect BA to be ready.
It brings to mind a situation that occurred this year in a facility with a rather sensitive mission. There was an objection by a group of individuals regarding the transfer of a certain group. During daily safety briefings recordings were made of supervisor instructions after complaints from some employees. Next thing..the hammer drops..two supervisors dismissed, another disciplined.
I'm sure BA understands the regulations, but I'm not so sure of BASSA. They seem to operate much more on an emotional level rather than thinking through the consequences of their actions.
Unfortunate that VCC have to deal with this.
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It is going to be hard to look at some of my friends again, as until that comment, I never saw them in that light. Still, you live and learn.
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But why do you feel the need to make posts like that? No doubt with your background, you could tie most of us up with reasoned debate, so why stoop?
Judging by the generally moderate and reasonable tone of your posts, I would be surprised if "your friends" and this group in any way overlap.
