BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
Paxing All Over The World
Thank Northern Flights and welcome to the cabin. I had toyed with setting a time on it but human beings usually repeat themselves since there is, as they say, nothing new under the sun. At some stage, the cycle will repeat itself.
Junior trash
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I hope that somebody can prove me wrong, but as I understand it DH has to stand down from his job as a BASSA rep at the next election. However, BASSA have contrived to delay the next election until the current wrangle is resolved. So DH has a massive conflict of interest, in that for every month he can drag the issue out, he gains some £6,000 in income.
Dig in for a long siege.
Dig in for a long siege.
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I hope that somebody can prove me wrong, but as I understand it DH has to stand down from his job as a BASSA rep at the next election. However, BASSA have contrived to delay the next election until the current wrangle is resolved. So DH has a massive conflict of interest, in that for every month he can drag the issue out, he gains some £6,000 in income.
Dig in for a long siege.
Dig in for a long siege.
Or, is this just speculation?
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Hi, I was sent a copy of the audited Union accounts last week. Don't know why because I left unite a long time ago!!
Anyway Lisanne Malone is mentioned as a member of the Executive Comittee and all she claimed was £223 but Duncan Holey is not mentioned at all.
It does not mention anything about branch secretaries getting a percentage of the membership subs anywhere in the document. Of course they don't mention everything but that seems like something that I would have thought might get a mention.
Maybe it is just a rumour!! I have always been sceptical about this as all the union reps draw a salary from BA as did DH so why would the union give him subs from the members as well?
Anyway Lisanne Malone is mentioned as a member of the Executive Comittee and all she claimed was £223 but Duncan Holey is not mentioned at all.
It does not mention anything about branch secretaries getting a percentage of the membership subs anywhere in the document. Of course they don't mention everything but that seems like something that I would have thought might get a mention.
Maybe it is just a rumour!! I have always been sceptical about this as all the union reps draw a salary from BA as did DH so why would the union give him subs from the members as well?
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Thanks, Betty ... that's a completely 'convincing' set of accounts. So Ms Malone's Union activities only cost the membership £223, and she got a FREE Duncan Holley to go with it?
Gosh, I hope nobody at BA or their Legal people read this. Someone might some serious investigation of those Accounts, and those who signed them off.
Gosh, I hope nobody at BA or their Legal people read this. Someone might some serious investigation of those Accounts, and those who signed them off.
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Branch secretaries don't get the percentage the branch does. The secretary can only claim expenses.....I suggest it was a rumour born of either misinterpretation or pure mischief, or, possibly a bit of both.....
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MPN11,
There is a link to the accounts on a post by SNAS no 1592.
I expect that they get expences from the branch funds as well but only expences I think.
BA pay union reps their salary plus a daily allowance ( I believe) much the same as crew who work in Recruitment and Training which is about £50 per day( in leiu of lost allowances). At the moment due to the dispute union reps are not being off-lined so at the moment they are not picking up their off-line allowances.
I don't know if DH gets all thoes extra sub payments but I very much doubt it myself.
There is a link to the accounts on a post by SNAS no 1592.
I expect that they get expences from the branch funds as well but only expences I think.
BA pay union reps their salary plus a daily allowance ( I believe) much the same as crew who work in Recruitment and Training which is about £50 per day( in leiu of lost allowances). At the moment due to the dispute union reps are not being off-lined so at the moment they are not picking up their off-line allowances.
I don't know if DH gets all thoes extra sub payments but I very much doubt it myself.
Having been a branch secretary of the CPSA many moons ago I can say that then there were no payments made.
The only thing you could claim for was expenses where justified.
Your employer pays you normally for the time you spend on union activities during working hours - providing they agree that you can be released
For time spent on union duties outside your normal working hours - that's out of your community spirit and wish to help your colleagues - i.e. .. no money ..
The only folks who got paid a salary by a union were those directly employed by them.
I can't imagine it being any different now.
The only thing you could claim for was expenses where justified.
Your employer pays you normally for the time you spend on union activities during working hours - providing they agree that you can be released
For time spent on union duties outside your normal working hours - that's out of your community spirit and wish to help your colleagues - i.e. .. no money ..
The only folks who got paid a salary by a union were those directly employed by them.
I can't imagine it being any different now.
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If, and I say if, Duncan Holley is now employed by Unite I would assume that Wooley and Simpson will be able to control him. This may change the dynamics going forward. Given his most recent statements I would think any employment by Unite is only since he has gone silent. The other question is other than controlling Duncan why would Unite employ him after this is resolved. Certainly they do not want him involved in any negotiations. Does Unite have a lunch room at their offices?
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Can a person be an employee of Unite and also still be a branch secretary of a sub-union that represents employees of a company he no longer works for?
That's a bizarre scenario.
That's a bizarre scenario.
However, I agree that DH's position is, dare I say, unusual ... and undoubtedly being analysed by BA's legal people.
In fairness, who are Messrs Wooley and Simpson employed by? They represent employees who are members of the diaspora called "Unite the Union".
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BASSA structure
A number of comments have been made about various aspects of Bassa's capability to do things differently from the normal course of events - i.e. passing changes to the Bassa rules that allow the normal change of officers/reps to be delayed until this dispute is over, thereby keeping all the militants in place - previously making changes that only Bassa can call off the IA or any other activity in this dispute - having sole authority to accept or deny any offer made by BA - all of which apparently leaves Unite helpless to intervene and are not normal rules for a trade union. As a result I find it quite easy to believe that the Bassa has been structured over time to be of benefit primarily to those running it.
In the meantime the militants still appear to be very active, creating new trolls or constructed apologists to try and gain sympathy for Bassa and co, twisting any facts in their way. One of the most wicked things I have ever seen is the Bassa release to their members around October last year, stating that they had continually tried to negotiate with BA, who refused to have any meaningful meetings with them, but that Bassa would continue trying with all their might to obtain a just resolution and members should not even read any statements from their employer BA.
This was subsequently blown out of the water at the court hearing regarding inposition, when it became apparent that Bassa had for many months, refused all opportunities to meet or negotiate and were blindly intent on IA and trying to win back control of BA operations. That release to their members was in my view the worst case of lying, twisted propoganda since the war, the problem being that so many believed it, having been primed to only believe Bassa, that the world was flat!
And so it continues on the other thread, Angelica 20102010 pops up, a 37 year old 4 poster in Italy, explaining how it can't all be Bassa's fault. A poster 'Asperge' fights anyone who says anything bad about Bassa. Somewhere else a supposed CC 'Keving Cok' has apparently been fired and is bitterly complaining about injustice and that 62 have been suspended and 12 sacked, if those are true figures, in my view, we have a long way to go yet. I don't know the way in which any posters are accepted/vetted on the other thread, but it would save a lot of wasted effort if these non CC BA staff/Trolls were filtered out earlier - but I do appreciate that its difficult.
In the meantime the militants still appear to be very active, creating new trolls or constructed apologists to try and gain sympathy for Bassa and co, twisting any facts in their way. One of the most wicked things I have ever seen is the Bassa release to their members around October last year, stating that they had continually tried to negotiate with BA, who refused to have any meaningful meetings with them, but that Bassa would continue trying with all their might to obtain a just resolution and members should not even read any statements from their employer BA.
This was subsequently blown out of the water at the court hearing regarding inposition, when it became apparent that Bassa had for many months, refused all opportunities to meet or negotiate and were blindly intent on IA and trying to win back control of BA operations. That release to their members was in my view the worst case of lying, twisted propoganda since the war, the problem being that so many believed it, having been primed to only believe Bassa, that the world was flat!
And so it continues on the other thread, Angelica 20102010 pops up, a 37 year old 4 poster in Italy, explaining how it can't all be Bassa's fault. A poster 'Asperge' fights anyone who says anything bad about Bassa. Somewhere else a supposed CC 'Keving Cok' has apparently been fired and is bitterly complaining about injustice and that 62 have been suspended and 12 sacked, if those are true figures, in my view, we have a long way to go yet. I don't know the way in which any posters are accepted/vetted on the other thread, but it would save a lot of wasted effort if these non CC BA staff/Trolls were filtered out earlier - but I do appreciate that its difficult.
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An interesting post on the crew thread by "tofster" saying he/she will accept less crew on board and reduced pay in line with pilots but will not accept MF recruitment at lower wages and will take further IA if called. He/she doesn't seem to understand that further IA is most likely to be unprotected and will thus trigger dismissal and dicusses it in a way that sounds like it is his/her entitlement such that "if no fresh talks or offers are forthcoming" from BA it is not only inevitable but justified.
Unfortunately the time for accepting less crew on board was last year and BA have never, ever, to my knowledge, asked crew to take less pay rather they have done everything to preserve current pay to legacy crew. MF has been introduced as BA has needed to move forward while BASSA has refused to engage in mature communication. Finally, it is clear BA will be not be making better but only diminishing offers if any at all from now on.
There is something strangely disconnected from the real issues and even somewhat irrational in tofster's post. Almost like a lost sheep who is confused having become disconnected from the flock and those who used to give leadership.
If this post is in anyway true and typical of other union crew members the time is ripe for PCCC to move in.
Unfortunately the time for accepting less crew on board was last year and BA have never, ever, to my knowledge, asked crew to take less pay rather they have done everything to preserve current pay to legacy crew. MF has been introduced as BA has needed to move forward while BASSA has refused to engage in mature communication. Finally, it is clear BA will be not be making better but only diminishing offers if any at all from now on.
There is something strangely disconnected from the real issues and even somewhat irrational in tofster's post. Almost like a lost sheep who is confused having become disconnected from the flock and those who used to give leadership.
If this post is in anyway true and typical of other union crew members the time is ripe for PCCC to move in.
Last edited by Phil Rigg; 23rd Aug 2010 at 22:49.
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Oddities too
On the other thread, that semi poster Tofster, makes very similar sounds to Kevin Cok and also reminds one of that tomato chappie and one or two other past entities - same prayer book?
In the meantime apropo of Bassa rules, there have also been a couple of comments made recently about how very difficult it is for anyone new to get themselves onto the list as a candidate for the Bassa council/committee, due to the onerous and detailed background, age, experience and qualifications required by the rules.
And so to bed .......zzzzzz
In the meantime apropo of Bassa rules, there have also been a couple of comments made recently about how very difficult it is for anyone new to get themselves onto the list as a candidate for the Bassa council/committee, due to the onerous and detailed background, age, experience and qualifications required by the rules.
And so to bed .......zzzzzz
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An interesting post on the crew thread by "tofster" saying he/she will accept less crew on board
Lest we forget, if "tofster" and the rest of the lemmings had told their union that it was OK to work one down, then they wouldn't have their arses hanging out of the window now, would they?
The fact is their union had them indoctrinated into believing they could do what they like, so they fought the removal of a crew member until BA were forced to do it, then called it "imposition".
Well tough. You reap what you sow, and these BASSA diehards that are coming on here now saying "they wouldn't have minded working a man down" are quite obviously lying, and trying once again to swing the blame to the company and the CEO.
Thankfully, when you have a space cadet like Duncan Holley orchestrating the campaign, it isn't very hard to shoot it down.
He should stick to talking to his tomatoes (mind you they probably pay more attention).
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The Ball is in the Apathetic Majority CC's Court!
I guess that having been repeatedly banned under new userIDs DH has possibly resorted to hijacking tofster's userID. This will be a good one for the mods to untangle!
Having won the power struggle, BA/WW cannot settle with UNITE/BASSA as long as DH and his crew are in control otherwise the madness will continue. BASSA's current leadership has imposed every restrictive measure possible to keep themselves in power thus making leadership change by CC membership difficult.
This leaves the majority apathetic CC still paying their monthly BASSA dues in limbo with the onus on them for action if matters are to be resolved. Either they overthrow BASSA's current leadership or they transfer their membership to PCCC which my guess is still way short of the 40% or so numbers required to function officially.
Regarding the dispute, BA can do nothing but sit back and wait for the majority of CC to get whatever message they need to take whatever action they choose. Meanwhile it has a perfect vacuum to move ahead with MF and even at an increased pace if it desires. For minor recalcitrant rumbles then UNITE will slap BASSA down. Should the IA ballot threat rear again then BA is ready to take its Way Forward offer off the table and to warn CC of unprotected action. If IA happens BA can proceed with dismissals, should it choose, but in any case has plenty of VCC to cover the substantially diminished CC that will actually take IA under these circumstances.
BA has completely contained the militants and we now wait, at last, to hear from the CC apathetic majority.
CC you have the limelight - the ball is firmly in your court - rise-up and speak - demand better from your union or switch your allegiance - how say you?
Having won the power struggle, BA/WW cannot settle with UNITE/BASSA as long as DH and his crew are in control otherwise the madness will continue. BASSA's current leadership has imposed every restrictive measure possible to keep themselves in power thus making leadership change by CC membership difficult.
This leaves the majority apathetic CC still paying their monthly BASSA dues in limbo with the onus on them for action if matters are to be resolved. Either they overthrow BASSA's current leadership or they transfer their membership to PCCC which my guess is still way short of the 40% or so numbers required to function officially.
Regarding the dispute, BA can do nothing but sit back and wait for the majority of CC to get whatever message they need to take whatever action they choose. Meanwhile it has a perfect vacuum to move ahead with MF and even at an increased pace if it desires. For minor recalcitrant rumbles then UNITE will slap BASSA down. Should the IA ballot threat rear again then BA is ready to take its Way Forward offer off the table and to warn CC of unprotected action. If IA happens BA can proceed with dismissals, should it choose, but in any case has plenty of VCC to cover the substantially diminished CC that will actually take IA under these circumstances.
BA has completely contained the militants and we now wait, at last, to hear from the CC apathetic majority.
CC you have the limelight - the ball is firmly in your court - rise-up and speak - demand better from your union or switch your allegiance - how say you?
Last edited by Phil Rigg; 25th Aug 2010 at 15:42.
