BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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I note from that other site that there are strong allegations that the BASSA reps did not go on strike and kept their Staff Travel intact.
Surely now the reps must come clean, or the foecal matter will collide with the revolving cooler.
Surely now the reps must come clean, or the foecal matter will collide with the revolving cooler.
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My comment was in response to a previous post that suggested that a different negotiator solved the problems with the BAA. Lets not forget that the potential dispute at the BAA was for a pay rise, not a restructuring.
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You could flip that the other way round to show that BA are proposing the most significant change to the employees that BASSA represent and hence the problem.
Modest changes to crewing levels and a revised disruption agreement are nowhere near as radical as other changes the workforce has gone through. BASSA's refusal to negotiate is the reason why it has dug itself into an ever deeper hole.
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Original Columbus Thread
LD,
It does make interesting reading, from the leaked document, to where the two sides are now. BA are on track, but £150m down. If no existing crew are to be worse off, then BA must hold some responsibility for the cost of the IA. Or do you see the IA asa necessary part of the process, to reduce the strength of BASSA?
It does make interesting reading, from the leaked document, to where the two sides are now. BA are on track, but £150m down. If no existing crew are to be worse off, then BA must hold some responsibility for the cost of the IA. Or do you see the IA asa necessary part of the process, to reduce the strength of BASSA?
................... If no existing crew are to be worse off, then BA must hold some responsibility for the cost of the IA. Or do you see the IA asa necessary part of the process, to reduce the strength of BASSA?
It appears that BA as a company have been able to agree re-organisation/re-structure and associated cost savings with various other workforce groups (a few of whom could have caused much greater disruption etc than CC).
In my airline days (some time ago now!!) I went through at least two painful restructures ... all achieved without strikes etc.
In my more recent aviation life I have been through further restructures (on both sides of the fence) .. again painful and again without industrial action even being considered.
From the posts I've read on both threads the big differences seem to me to be that in all the cases I've experienced the staff involved recognised the validity of the business needs ... (I'm not syaing they like the idea)
This meant that while they wanted to avoid as much pain as possible they accepted that some was inevitable and had a will to ensure any pain was fairly distributed and really required.
Refusing to meet, examine and discuss business cases/accounts as reported here suggests no willingness to negotiate but rather tactics to simply draw out the process without agreement in the hope/belief that it will eventually go away.
I cannot see how an agreement can ever be reached with that approach....
A company has all sorts of obligations to it's owners etc that mean it simply cannot sit back and say "oh well, we've given it a try" .. they must find a solution or eventually shut down (either quickly or via a long lingering route) ..
A useful negotator has the ability to be able to get across to those they represent what the real risks/benefits are and when it's time to call it a day.
In this dispute we now have a lot of staff who now have a significant degredation to their benefit package in comparison to what they would have had if the first tabled offer had been accepted.
In addition it's also cost them money to get to that point (or has it??)
Every union shop steward or full time union official I've known would always at every point when industrial action was suggested make sure that they spelt out the risks and dangers in great detail .. and that it should only be the last ditch option as once it's used you can never wind the clock back and if it doesn't work you've nothing left to use.
Whatever your viewpoint on the right or wrong .. in this case it really looks poorly handled and advised from the start
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Bulb’s old bean, nope, I don’t agree.
By their actions BASSA have been the architects of their own demise. It never needed to be like that. By refusing to negotiate or view presentations on the company’s finances or cooperate with CC89 reps etc they rendered themselves irrelevant or certainly not a part of any constructive attempt to resolve issues.
They then lost the public with the 12 days strike.
They then further compounded this by making false promises (“staff travel will be back in 5 minutes”) and providing half truths (“you can’t be sacked for striking”) to staff and then finally topped the lot off by alienating other workgroups, pilots union being told to “Foxtrot Oscar” and slighting the work of engineers.
If, and I don’t agree it’s the case, but if BA’s original intent was to weaken, destroy, BASSA then BA couldn’t have had a better partner in that plan than BASSA themselves.
I struggle to find one single smart move from BASSA during the whole history of this IA. Can you think of one?
By their actions BASSA have been the architects of their own demise. It never needed to be like that. By refusing to negotiate or view presentations on the company’s finances or cooperate with CC89 reps etc they rendered themselves irrelevant or certainly not a part of any constructive attempt to resolve issues.
They then lost the public with the 12 days strike.
They then further compounded this by making false promises (“staff travel will be back in 5 minutes”) and providing half truths (“you can’t be sacked for striking”) to staff and then finally topped the lot off by alienating other workgroups, pilots union being told to “Foxtrot Oscar” and slighting the work of engineers.
If, and I don’t agree it’s the case, but if BA’s original intent was to weaken, destroy, BASSA then BA couldn’t have had a better partner in that plan than BASSA themselves.
I struggle to find one single smart move from BASSA during the whole history of this IA. Can you think of one?
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I struggle to find one single smart move from BASSA during the whole history of this IA. Can you think of one?
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I struggle to find one single smart move from BASSA
Well, I think you have to look through the other end of the telescope...
What BASSA have done, for the last n years, is to successfully protect the way of life and working conditions of their members... actually, it would seem, an élite corps of their members, who apparently are LHR based CSDs, and, possibly the more senior Pursers.
That they have been successful in doing that for so long to the longer term detriment of both of BA as a Company, and their other members (e.g., the LGW staff), matters not to the élite corps.
And, arguably, they have provided leadership to the BA cabin crew, filling a vacuum left by the inept management who allowed them to do that... pace Red Robbo and his like in the Midlands car industry, who successfully shut down volume car manufacturing in the U.K., whereas it still seems to be a possible and sufficiently profitable business in, e.g., France and Germany.
So, the lack of smart moves in the current dispute is that BASSA failed to realise that the winds of change finally were going to blow their tent away. If they'd looked around them, they might have seen that the other parts of BA had already seen the way that the wind was blowing, and adjusted their expectations to suit. But, as so many have commented, the BASSA response was to stick their heads into the sand, and their fingers into the air.
BASSA up to now have been very successful. They were allowed to be successful by a weak management that failed to provide leadership. But now that management has finally taken control, BASSA hasn't got a game plan.
I only hope for all the good and dedicated cabin crew that I have seen over my years as a BA customer that IFCE will ensure that only truly competent Leaders, from both sides of the table, will be allowed to run the show henceforth.
What BASSA have done, for the last n years, is to successfully protect the way of life and working conditions of their members... actually, it would seem, an élite corps of their members, who apparently are LHR based CSDs, and, possibly the more senior Pursers.
That they have been successful in doing that for so long to the longer term detriment of both of BA as a Company, and their other members (e.g., the LGW staff), matters not to the élite corps.
And, arguably, they have provided leadership to the BA cabin crew, filling a vacuum left by the inept management who allowed them to do that... pace Red Robbo and his like in the Midlands car industry, who successfully shut down volume car manufacturing in the U.K., whereas it still seems to be a possible and sufficiently profitable business in, e.g., France and Germany.
So, the lack of smart moves in the current dispute is that BASSA failed to realise that the winds of change finally were going to blow their tent away. If they'd looked around them, they might have seen that the other parts of BA had already seen the way that the wind was blowing, and adjusted their expectations to suit. But, as so many have commented, the BASSA response was to stick their heads into the sand, and their fingers into the air.
BASSA up to now have been very successful. They were allowed to be successful by a weak management that failed to provide leadership. But now that management has finally taken control, BASSA hasn't got a game plan.
I only hope for all the good and dedicated cabin crew that I have seen over my years as a BA customer that IFCE will ensure that only truly competent Leaders, from both sides of the table, will be allowed to run the show henceforth.
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Snas
You are probably right of course. I just got thinking after reading the first couple of pages of the original thread in 2008 and the leaked Columbus document.
You are right about negotiations however, you have to be in it to win it.
You are right about negotiations however, you have to be in it to win it.
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fincastle84
You make an interesting comment.
In that context alone you can add ALL the trade union leaders for the past 30-40 years! It is generally accepted in the trade union movement that successes by the leaders against management will satisfy the workers enough to ignore the massive salaries the leaders receive.
All at around the £150k mark now plus around £30k's worth of perks is sustainable for years to come - with increases - so long as they can "keep the lads onside" during IA. In BASSA'a case the reps have blown it.
You make an interesting comment.
They've made a few reps & old CSDs quite wealthy!
All at around the £150k mark now plus around £30k's worth of perks is sustainable for years to come - with increases - so long as they can "keep the lads onside" during IA. In BASSA'a case the reps have blown it.
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That other thread now has a new BASSA troll, in the shape of 'Lady BA BA,' who claims to be an ex model and BA Stewardess. Stewardess? How quaint - ex BOAC perhaps.
She has certainly increased the posting rate, let's see how long this latest incarnation lasts.
She has certainly increased the posting rate, let's see how long this latest incarnation lasts.
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Lady BA BA is so clearly DH in another disguise as who else would open up immediately with personal attacks on, you guessed it, Willie Walsh?
I sense some serious personal issues here if the GS of BASSA feels he needs to keep trolling on PPRUNE rather than dealing with the responsibilities he has towards protecting the livelihoods of his '000s of members.
I sense some serious personal issues here if the GS of BASSA feels he needs to keep trolling on PPRUNE rather than dealing with the responsibilities he has towards protecting the livelihoods of his '000s of members.
Last edited by Phil Rigg; 17th Aug 2010 at 19:38.
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If flyblue, TightSlot or flapsforty assure me that Lady BA BA is a 'Stewardess with BA' I will send a cheque for £50 to 'Help for Heroes'. I've known flapsforty since the Ashbash in May 2000 and she, hopefully, knows that I will be good to my word.
Dave
Dave
