BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's in a name?
From a Dictionary:
Hector came to an inglorious end. Slain by Achilles, his body was then dragged around the city of Troy behind Achilles' chariot.
hector
verb
intimidate, browbeat, harass, torment, plague; coerce, strong-arm; threaten, menace; informal bulldoze.
verb
intimidate, browbeat, harass, torment, plague; coerce, strong-arm; threaten, menace; informal bulldoze.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin
Age: 65
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oggers/Hipennine
The whole outing thing is laughable, other than the distress caused to the individual concerened which I would not wish to belittle.
BA's decision to remove staff travel perks gave rise to page upon page of posts about the alleged human rights breach of such action, not to mention threats of legal action under human rights legislation to reassert the fundamental human right of airline staff to a cheap holiday in the Caribbean. Holley's outing has resulted in a quite deafening silence in respect of the similar protections he has breached that were owed to the person outed. I would suggest Unite's approach to such matters is inversely proportional to the hurt suffered, ie something superficial such as cheap holidays attracts howls of outrage, something that matters such as controls over the maintenance of confidential personal data is simply ignored.
Holley has almost certainly broken data protection laws, and the person concerned will probably have grounds for complaint to the Information Commissioner. I think that would be worth going for. There is so much anecdotal evidence of Unite's poor control of data that there would have to be a good chance that the IC would find fault with more than just Holley's inappropriate use of personal data in this particular case.
However, the most amusing aspect of this issue is that it may well breach the, admittedly very limited, rights to privacy contained in the Human Rights Act and ECoHR. I seem to have missed the howls of outrage at these breaches from the BASSA faithful. Perhaps they're too busy lobbying Parliament over them, or demonstrating outside Unite's HQ shouting "Holley, Holley, Holley, Out, Out, Out!!!" to have posted any. Or maybe not. Seriously, a consistent approach to such matters would suggest that Unite should now take legal advice on suing itself!!!
BA's decision to remove staff travel perks gave rise to page upon page of posts about the alleged human rights breach of such action, not to mention threats of legal action under human rights legislation to reassert the fundamental human right of airline staff to a cheap holiday in the Caribbean. Holley's outing has resulted in a quite deafening silence in respect of the similar protections he has breached that were owed to the person outed. I would suggest Unite's approach to such matters is inversely proportional to the hurt suffered, ie something superficial such as cheap holidays attracts howls of outrage, something that matters such as controls over the maintenance of confidential personal data is simply ignored.
Holley has almost certainly broken data protection laws, and the person concerned will probably have grounds for complaint to the Information Commissioner. I think that would be worth going for. There is so much anecdotal evidence of Unite's poor control of data that there would have to be a good chance that the IC would find fault with more than just Holley's inappropriate use of personal data in this particular case.
However, the most amusing aspect of this issue is that it may well breach the, admittedly very limited, rights to privacy contained in the Human Rights Act and ECoHR. I seem to have missed the howls of outrage at these breaches from the BASSA faithful. Perhaps they're too busy lobbying Parliament over them, or demonstrating outside Unite's HQ shouting "Holley, Holley, Holley, Out, Out, Out!!!" to have posted any. Or maybe not. Seriously, a consistent approach to such matters would suggest that Unite should now take legal advice on suing itself!!!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: middle earth
Age: 60
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From Hector Vector
"There is not much point taking the subs off of members if they are out to do as much damage as possible to the organisation. Once they have been identified, then chuck them out. In the past there has not been enough discipline, with some crew ignoring agreements selfishly to do their own thing, to the detriment of the majority.
Fortunately there is now a receptacle for such characters....it is called the PCCC"
My Version
"There is not much point paying someone if they are out to do as much damage as possible to the organisation. Once they have been identified, then chuck them out. In the past there has not been enough discipline, with some crew ignoring reasonable requests to selfishly to do their own thing, to the detriment of the majority.
Fortunately there is now a receptacle for such characters....it is called the job centre"
I am surprsied that the "outing!" has only just caught peoples attention. What i am more surprised at is the lack of action from Unite or the lack of a Unite member being disgusted enough to formally complain to unite.
What DH has done is nothing more than discrimination, harrasment and bullying. Unite imho should immediately call for DH to resign and new elections held or face immediate disenfranchisement (is that a word?)
I had to rush off and see if Unison (My union) were partnered with Unite because for a Union who is ostensibly their to protect it's members to do this to one of them isn't something i want to be part of or associated with.
"There is not much point taking the subs off of members if they are out to do as much damage as possible to the organisation. Once they have been identified, then chuck them out. In the past there has not been enough discipline, with some crew ignoring agreements selfishly to do their own thing, to the detriment of the majority.
Fortunately there is now a receptacle for such characters....it is called the PCCC"
My Version
"There is not much point paying someone if they are out to do as much damage as possible to the organisation. Once they have been identified, then chuck them out. In the past there has not been enough discipline, with some crew ignoring reasonable requests to selfishly to do their own thing, to the detriment of the majority.
Fortunately there is now a receptacle for such characters....it is called the job centre"
I am surprsied that the "outing!" has only just caught peoples attention. What i am more surprised at is the lack of action from Unite or the lack of a Unite member being disgusted enough to formally complain to unite.
What DH has done is nothing more than discrimination, harrasment and bullying. Unite imho should immediately call for DH to resign and new elections held or face immediate disenfranchisement (is that a word?)
I had to rush off and see if Unison (My union) were partnered with Unite because for a Union who is ostensibly their to protect it's members to do this to one of them isn't something i want to be part of or associated with.
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 67
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From
http://www.unitetheunion.org/pdf/054...u%E2%80%A6.pdf
I think 27.1.5 (my bold) possibly just about covers it
(Perhaps someone who can post in the CC thread might like to coppy this to there)
http://www.unitetheunion.org/pdf/054...u%E2%80%A6.pdf
I think 27.1.5 (my bold) possibly just about covers it
27.1 A member may be charged with:
27.1.1 Acting in any way contrary to the rules or any duty or obligation imposed on
that member by or pursuant to these rules whether in his/her capacity as a
member, a holder of a lay office or a representative of the Union.
27.1.2 Being a party to any fraud on the Union or any misappropriation or misuse of
its funds or property.
27.1.3 Knowingly, recklessly or in bad faith providing the Union with false or
misleading information relating to a member or any other aspect of the Union’s
activities.
27.1.4 Inciting, espousing or practising discrimination or intolerance amongst
members on grounds of race, ethnic origin, religion, age, gender, disability or
sexual orientation.
27.1.5 Bringing about injury to or discredit upon the Union or any member of the Union.
27.1.6 Obtaining membership of the Union by false statement material to their
admission into the Union or any evasion in that regard.
27.1.1 Acting in any way contrary to the rules or any duty or obligation imposed on
that member by or pursuant to these rules whether in his/her capacity as a
member, a holder of a lay office or a representative of the Union.
27.1.2 Being a party to any fraud on the Union or any misappropriation or misuse of
its funds or property.
27.1.3 Knowingly, recklessly or in bad faith providing the Union with false or
misleading information relating to a member or any other aspect of the Union’s
activities.
27.1.4 Inciting, espousing or practising discrimination or intolerance amongst
members on grounds of race, ethnic origin, religion, age, gender, disability or
sexual orientation.
27.1.5 Bringing about injury to or discredit upon the Union or any member of the Union.
27.1.6 Obtaining membership of the Union by false statement material to their
admission into the Union or any evasion in that regard.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
West Lakes
Yes and perhaps some current Bassa members (notice the plural) could urge the Unite management to start following both the Bassa and PPRune fora and point them to Duncan's next gaffe.....
One should hope that either Unite get stuck in cleaning up Bassa or kicking them out, for the well being of the entire Unite membership.
Perhaps Bassa could be replaced by PCCC within Unite?
One should hope that either Unite get stuck in cleaning up Bassa or kicking them out, for the well being of the entire Unite membership.
Perhaps Bassa could be replaced by PCCC within Unite?
Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Join Date: May 2007
Location: On the western edge of The Moor
Age: 67
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the Unite management to start following both the Bassa and PPRuNe fora and point them to Duncan's next gaffe.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 82
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But why put the PCCC into the same old strait jacket, constraints and control of these creaking dinosaurs, they hopefully represent a new, modern method of handling working relationships between employer and employed which can only be to the benefit of both parties.
They have the potential to become that rare thing these days, an entity which is able to think and act without being constrained or controlled by political considerations and idealogy - some would call it freedom!!
They have the potential to become that rare thing these days, an entity which is able to think and act without being constrained or controlled by political considerations and idealogy - some would call it freedom!!
Data protection
I agree that was DH has done is unlawful.
Visit the ico website...........
Data Protection Act (DPA) 1998, data protection policy - ICO
"
The Data Protection Act requires anyone who handles personal information to comply with a number of important principles. It also gives individuals rights over their personal information.
Your rights
Individuals have a wide range of rights under the Data Protection Act, including access, compensation and the prevention of processing.
Your legal obligations
If you handle personal information, you have a number of important legal obligations. All the details are here.
"
So, DH has now exposed Unite to legal action..............as he did with the request for staff not to open/close blinds.
I expect Unite's lawyers to issue yet another stroppy letter, and for the offending post to be taken down sharpish.
Visit the ico website...........
Data Protection Act (DPA) 1998, data protection policy - ICO
"
The Data Protection Act requires anyone who handles personal information to comply with a number of important principles. It also gives individuals rights over their personal information.
Your rights
Individuals have a wide range of rights under the Data Protection Act, including access, compensation and the prevention of processing.
Your legal obligations
If you handle personal information, you have a number of important legal obligations. All the details are here.
"
So, DH has now exposed Unite to legal action..............as he did with the request for staff not to open/close blinds.
I expect Unite's lawyers to issue yet another stroppy letter, and for the offending post to be taken down sharpish.
Subject access request
Any current or ex-Bassa member is entitled to ask DH as sec of the org for a copy of all of the data that the org has on them. It is called a subject access request.
I would hope that a few thousand would be sent for those afraid about the branch sec's megalomania.
The letter is below, the address is here.....
Branch Sec.
BASSA
Unite House,
99 New Road,
Harlington,
Middx
UB3 5BQ
As we know that DH is monumentally incompetent at admin, one week after sending the request to the junta, a further request should be sent to Mr Simpson.
Mr Simpson
Joint gen Sec
Unite,
Unite House,
128 Theobald's Road,
Holborn,
London,
WC1X 8TN
here's the letter that the Info Commissioner suggests you should use.
"Dear Sir or Madam
Please send me the information which I am entitled to under the Section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998.
If you need further information from me, or a fee, please let me know as soon as possible.
If you do not normally handle these requests for your organisation, please pass this letter to your Data protection officer or another appropriate official.
Yours faithfully
"
I would hope that a few thousand would be sent for those afraid about the branch sec's megalomania.
The letter is below, the address is here.....
Branch Sec.
BASSA
Unite House,
99 New Road,
Harlington,
Middx
UB3 5BQ
As we know that DH is monumentally incompetent at admin, one week after sending the request to the junta, a further request should be sent to Mr Simpson.
Mr Simpson
Joint gen Sec
Unite,
Unite House,
128 Theobald's Road,
Holborn,
London,
WC1X 8TN
here's the letter that the Info Commissioner suggests you should use.
"Dear Sir or Madam
Please send me the information which I am entitled to under the Section 7(1) of the Data Protection Act 1998.
If you need further information from me, or a fee, please let me know as soon as possible.
If you do not normally handle these requests for your organisation, please pass this letter to your Data protection officer or another appropriate official.
Yours faithfully
"
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: England
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA's decision to remove staff travel perks gave rise to page upon page of posts about the alleged human rights breach of such action, not to mention threats of legal action under human rights legislation to reassert the fundamental human right of airline staff to a cheap holiday in the Caribbean.
The Human Rights legislation being invoked is not anything to do with rights to holiday flights, but is to do with the human right to have a legally balloted strike without suffering the withdrawal of perks (any perks, or for that matter, any kind of punishment) enjoyed by the rest of the employer's (any employer) staff.
If it goes unchallenged, or is confirmed as acceptable, any employer can then act against any strikers in a similar way in the future, however genuine their employees grievance may be.
Certainly I can see BA invoking it any time any further unrest arises, and they (BA) may not always be the 'good guys'.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sussex
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
baggersup
I agree - how on earth does BASSA still exist.
They have a DH as their branch secretary who has been dismissed by BA yet no doubt still retains his income of 7% of members dues (£130k+ per year).
They have an open members forum !
BASSA forum
Discussion about the "pseudo" alternate cabin crew representative body is forbidden under Forum Rules.
Anyone trying to re-open discussion about this will have their posting rights AUTOMATICALLY SUSPENDED WITHOUT NOTICE.
First and only warning.
This thread is now LOCKED and CLOSED.
BASSA MODERATOR
They can reveal members identities as and when they wish.
BASSA is in now a stage of complete meltdown
I feel utterly speechless - why do they still have members?
BASSA 1/117 - Welcome to the Cabin Crew Union of Thomson Airways - Thomson Airways are also a branch of BASSA ??
sorry edited a few times not only speechless but also lost for words
I agree - how on earth does BASSA still exist.
They have a DH as their branch secretary who has been dismissed by BA yet no doubt still retains his income of 7% of members dues (£130k+ per year).
They have an open members forum !
BASSA forum
Discussion about the "pseudo" alternate cabin crew representative body is forbidden under Forum Rules.
Anyone trying to re-open discussion about this will have their posting rights AUTOMATICALLY SUSPENDED WITHOUT NOTICE.
First and only warning.
This thread is now LOCKED and CLOSED.
BASSA MODERATORThey can reveal members identities as and when they wish.
BASSA is in now a stage of complete meltdown
I feel utterly speechless - why do they still have members?
BASSA 1/117 - Welcome to the Cabin Crew Union of Thomson Airways - Thomson Airways are also a branch of BASSA ??
sorry edited a few times not only speechless but also lost for words
Last edited by leiard; 9th Aug 2010 at 19:28.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To Baggersup, Leiard and all other very understanding and tolerant customers (hate the term SLF!)
That is the question that many of us are now asking, and in particular it is something that the PCCC team are baffled about.
The latest outrage by BASSA gives you an indication of what we the PCCC are up against. Imagine if BASSA knew our identities? Where would this bad behaviour end? We certainly don't want it affecting our day to day work, and that is why we remain anonymous.
Many crew simply don't know about the PCCC for the simple fact that we are unable to advertise properly. We put flyers on our noticeboards - and they are literally taken down within minutes by the BASSA militants. We are accused of being BA management at every turn - we are not. But how can we get our message across when this is what we are up against? They won't even allow mention of the PCCC name on either of the other forums!
BASSA are slowly self-combusting, and the quicker the better as far as we're concerned. But it is extremely unpleasant to see our own colleagues "outed" and treated in this deplorable way.
The irony is that it appears now that the majority of BASSA members CAME TO WORK during the strike! So staying in the union serves no useful purpose for them - because they surely won't get representation by BASSA should they need it. But if cabin crew remain in BASSA, funding this deplorable behaviour, what hope is there for the rest of us?
I am a BA cabin crew member and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
That is the question that many of us are now asking, and in particular it is something that the PCCC team are baffled about.
The latest outrage by BASSA gives you an indication of what we the PCCC are up against. Imagine if BASSA knew our identities? Where would this bad behaviour end? We certainly don't want it affecting our day to day work, and that is why we remain anonymous.
Many crew simply don't know about the PCCC for the simple fact that we are unable to advertise properly. We put flyers on our noticeboards - and they are literally taken down within minutes by the BASSA militants. We are accused of being BA management at every turn - we are not. But how can we get our message across when this is what we are up against? They won't even allow mention of the PCCC name on either of the other forums!
BASSA are slowly self-combusting, and the quicker the better as far as we're concerned. But it is extremely unpleasant to see our own colleagues "outed" and treated in this deplorable way.
The irony is that it appears now that the majority of BASSA members CAME TO WORK during the strike! So staying in the union serves no useful purpose for them - because they surely won't get representation by BASSA should they need it. But if cabin crew remain in BASSA, funding this deplorable behaviour, what hope is there for the rest of us?
I am a BA cabin crew member and the above represents my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sussex
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HiFlyer14
the term SLF is not really a problem - a bit of tongue in cheek.
D O Guerrero
I do not think there is any face left to save !
The Blu Riband
The only ones who have lost are those good cabin crew who trusted BASSA to look after their rights.
the term SLF is not really a problem - a bit of tongue in cheek.
D O Guerrero
I do not think there is any face left to save !
The Blu Riband
The only ones who have lost are those good cabin crew who trusted BASSA to look after their rights.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sussex
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Baggersup
As for their bookeeping being in disarray. They might not want to have their bookeeping and members' lists sorted. Not having them sorted might be a strategic move on their parts right now.
Does DH have to give back some of his hard earned % of union dues if the membership is lower than claimed, or maybe he knows the real number of members by looking at his paycheck?
I am sure their book keeping is as good as they want it to be.
As for their bookeeping being in disarray. They might not want to have their bookeeping and members' lists sorted. Not having them sorted might be a strategic move on their parts right now.
Does DH have to give back some of his hard earned % of union dues if the membership is lower than claimed, or maybe he knows the real number of members by looking at his paycheck?
I am sure their book keeping is as good as they want it to be.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sussex
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
baggersup
It is always the same - the top of the woodpile always gets the most.
That is why the likes of DH moaning about the pay of CEOs makes me laugh.
(WW gave up his bonus - did DH give up his payments while the strike was on?)
The 7% is what has been reported - I can not find any audited accounts for BASSA - so we cannot know the real sum involved,
It is always the same - the top of the woodpile always gets the most.
That is why the likes of DH moaning about the pay of CEOs makes me laugh.
(WW gave up his bonus - did DH give up his payments while the strike was on?)
The 7% is what has been reported - I can not find any audited accounts for BASSA - so we cannot know the real sum involved,
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin
Age: 65
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JaO
I wish this somewhat flippant reference to the human rights legal bid re loss of staff travel would stop being perpetuated.
If it goes unchallenged, or is confirmed as acceptable, any employer can then act against any strikers in a similar way in the future, however genuine their employees grievance may be.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA forum
Discussion about the "pseudo" alternate cabin crew representative body is forbidden under Forum Rules.
Anyone trying to re-open discussion about this will have their posting rights AUTOMATICALLY SUSPENDED WITHOUT NOTICE.
First and only warning.
This thread is now LOCKED and CLOSED.
BASSA MODERATOR
Discussion about the "pseudo" alternate cabin crew representative body is forbidden under Forum Rules.
Anyone trying to re-open discussion about this will have their posting rights AUTOMATICALLY SUSPENDED WITHOUT NOTICE.
First and only warning.
This thread is now LOCKED and CLOSED.
BASSA MODERATOR
