BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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Someone from my husbands department (within engineering) has volunteered as CC, there was no coercion from BA for anyone to do so however.
I can't speak for any other sections of course.
I can't speak for any other sections of course.
DJ,
But isn't it common in all industries for managers to pick up the tools during a strike?
If they can
the managers were told that they would "volunteer"
If they can
Last edited by Basil; 15th Jun 2010 at 13:18. Reason: if they can
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This wasn't during a strike but to cope with day to day disruption. With poor training. On your days off. I did say not as cabin crew. Managers in BA aren't what you would expect in other industries but includes people who do not manage people at all. Making them managers means you don't have to pay them overtime and can tell them to volunteer!
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This wasn't during a strike but to cope with day to day disruption. With poor training. On your days off. I did say not as cabin crew. Managers in BA aren't what you would expect in other industries but includes people who do not manage people at all. Making them managers means you don't have to pay them overtime and can tell them to volunteer!
What makes you think this is peculiar to BA ? It is quite normal for managers to be salaried, and thus expected to work overtime for no extra renumeration. It is whats expected in return for the enhamced salary and benefits.
What makes you think this is peculiar to BA ? It is quite normal for managers to be salaried, and thus expected to work overtime for no extra renumeration. It is whats expected in return for the enhamced salary and benefits.
they have indirectly inferred that VCC were responsible for the tragic Bangkok fire
Nevertheless, it is not normal to set the room ablaze and how terrible that a member of staff died as a result.
Not that it matters much and AFAIK, the steward was not VCC and I have reason to believe that neither was the stewardess.
Last edited by Basil; 15th Jun 2010 at 14:18.
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coercion or not
just an observer:
Her indoors tells me that a few of her department (not engineering but CSAs) have volunteered. They definitely weren't leant on either, in fact they weren't even asked but simply came forward on their own initiative because they knew the company was after vcc. So that's two massive departments covered.
You'd have to be in a state of denial to believe that BA are twisting folks' arms into volunteering. Outside of BASSA the strike has virtually zero support. Other departments aren't labouring under the misconception that BA can survive against leaner competitors whilst carrying the monkey that is BASSA on its back.
desk jockey:
Sure, but in my book it definitely isn't bullying.
there was no coercion from BA for anyone to do so however.....
I can't speak for any other sections of course.
I can't speak for any other sections of course.
You'd have to be in a state of denial to believe that BA are twisting folks' arms into volunteering. Outside of BASSA the strike has virtually zero support. Other departments aren't labouring under the misconception that BA can survive against leaner competitors whilst carrying the monkey that is BASSA on its back.
desk jockey:
When I was at BA, in the department that I was in the managers were told that they would "volunteer" (not for cabin crew) . In my book that is bullying, and one of the reasons I left.
No disapproval intended, Baggers. I meant it didn't matter whether the crew were CC or VCC or, for that matter, pilots. The candle ambience thing is pretty common at home, in restaurants etc. but rarely ends in death.
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Baggersup
Have no worries about the CAA. From personal experience whilst working for EAAC whilst operating under CVA conditions, they will be all over BA like a rash.
However, BA will be pleased to receive such close attention because it will demonstrate to their customers that safety standards are not being compromised. It will also leave the Bassa imbeciles even more exposed to possible prosecution.
However, BA will be pleased to receive such close attention because it will demonstrate to their customers that safety standards are not being compromised. It will also leave the Bassa imbeciles even more exposed to possible prosecution.
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Beware confirmation bias
It is easy to believe anything that put your philosophical opponents in a bad light. In war the first casualty is, as we all should know, the truth. Neither side has a monopoly on militants or truth.
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baggersup
I wondered at the time if just the exhortation of Mr. Holley to employ "guerrilla tactics" had twigged the interest of the CAA. Of course it is a vague suggestion on his part, but in an area as hyper sensitive as airline safety....I wondered if the envelope might be pushed out a bit on what the CAA might consider an actionable offense.
As for imperiling the safety of an aircraft the CAA will act with great swiftness and will usually descend in large numbers on the airline or operator to effect an arrest, or question however many possible suspects, or simply question anyone they wish to question. This is rare but I know of two such cases.
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lanyards
Over on the other forum, there is a side discussion going on about lanyards, particularly from BASSA bods being told they cant wear the union ones.
I will hold my hand up here and admit i've never noticed if CC wear them during the flight or not. I presume though that uniform poilicy is sensible like in most work places, that if you are expected to come into contact with members of the public you adhere to company policy on uniform, if not like most flight deck crew (ie locked up front) that embelishments are allowed.
Personally if i saw a CC with a BASSA lanyard i would find it objectionable. In that these are the people who really don't give a stuff about the people paying their wages..us the customers.
I will hold my hand up here and admit i've never noticed if CC wear them during the flight or not. I presume though that uniform poilicy is sensible like in most work places, that if you are expected to come into contact with members of the public you adhere to company policy on uniform, if not like most flight deck crew (ie locked up front) that embelishments are allowed.
Personally if i saw a CC with a BASSA lanyard i would find it objectionable. In that these are the people who really don't give a stuff about the people paying their wages..us the customers.
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Consistent Approach
BA uniform guidelines policy is clear, it is the execution of same that is inconsistent.
Wearing of lanyards is but one and the violation of the policy is across all industrial groups in the airline including Bassa AND BALPA. As a retired staff member travelling as frequently as I do I have no desire to be made aware of what specific TU an employee is a member of. I am sure that sentiment applies to the paying public who are keeping/kept us all employed.
C'mon management get a grip and ban this practice forthwith!
Wearing of lanyards is but one and the violation of the policy is across all industrial groups in the airline including Bassa AND BALPA. As a retired staff member travelling as frequently as I do I have no desire to be made aware of what specific TU an employee is a member of. I am sure that sentiment applies to the paying public who are keeping/kept us all employed.
C'mon management get a grip and ban this practice forthwith!
RTR,
just to re-frame what the CAA can and cannot do with respect to safety.
If they have a reason to believe (and if that belief is reasonably held), that there is an issue with respect to either aviation safety, or safety within the cabin for cabin crew, customers etc, they can do what the hell they want to do.
I've seen the Inspector's pass terms for both the AviationSafety Inspectors, and the H & S Inspectors.
All the Unions concerned know this. The Unions asked for it. The H & S within the cabin did not come within the CAAs remit until about 4 years ago. The EU gave it to the CAA to "regulate/manage" at the request of the EU TUs.
Their actual powers to effect entry and to seek facts are quite draconian, and if anyone wants to/tries to, get in their way, the individual is committing a criminal offence. Not a civil offence.
The CAA do not brag about this, but when I was in Aviation I was left in no doubt about their powers which are underneath their velvet gloves. We can moan about the cost of the CAA, but no-one doubts their safety record.
just to re-frame what the CAA can and cannot do with respect to safety.
If they have a reason to believe (and if that belief is reasonably held), that there is an issue with respect to either aviation safety, or safety within the cabin for cabin crew, customers etc, they can do what the hell they want to do.
I've seen the Inspector's pass terms for both the AviationSafety Inspectors, and the H & S Inspectors.
All the Unions concerned know this. The Unions asked for it. The H & S within the cabin did not come within the CAAs remit until about 4 years ago. The EU gave it to the CAA to "regulate/manage" at the request of the EU TUs.
Their actual powers to effect entry and to seek facts are quite draconian, and if anyone wants to/tries to, get in their way, the individual is committing a criminal offence. Not a civil offence.
The CAA do not brag about this, but when I was in Aviation I was left in no doubt about their powers which are underneath their velvet gloves. We can moan about the cost of the CAA, but no-one doubts their safety record.
Paxing All Over The World
Bucksbird
I doubt it, they are selling BP and don't know what to do with the cash - so they look around for another Blue Chip company that appears to be doing things right. Bingo! BA.
Wonder if The City knows something we don't?
BA share price up 7.10 to 213.20 today.
BA share price up 7.10 to 213.20 today.
I see the ACAS talks have stalled again. Quelle surprise.
Meanwhile, over on the "official" thread, "Miss M" seems to think that strike breakers should volunteer to go on New Fleet T&C's.
Quite why Bassa should think that a group of employees who by their actions in coming to work show they accept the deal currently on the table should suddenly want to ditch that and apply for inferior terms is lost on me.
Indeed, it seems that New Fleet is only commencing thanks to BASSA's insistence on letting the LHR CSD's put their feet up again, meaning BA have to recruit additional CC staff.
But then logic does not appear to be a required attribute for BASSA supporters who post on Pprune. Whereas, blind faith in BASSA that flies against all reason appears to be mandatory
Meanwhile, over on the "official" thread, "Miss M" seems to think that strike breakers should volunteer to go on New Fleet T&C's.
Quite why Bassa should think that a group of employees who by their actions in coming to work show they accept the deal currently on the table should suddenly want to ditch that and apply for inferior terms is lost on me.
Indeed, it seems that New Fleet is only commencing thanks to BASSA's insistence on letting the LHR CSD's put their feet up again, meaning BA have to recruit additional CC staff.
But then logic does not appear to be a required attribute for BASSA supporters who post on Pprune. Whereas, blind faith in BASSA that flies against all reason appears to be mandatory
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I too, am banned from the other place, as I am a recent ex-employee, and hence deemed to have no right to comment
.
Anyway, with regards to discharging of oxygen bottles by crew leaving the aircraft prior to a sector I would like to comment and draw a parallel.
1. Part of the cabin crew checks are to check that the bottles are full prior to departure at their individual crew station.
2. Crew not reporting a problem with the bottle are likely to dump themselves in the mire if the subsequent crew report the problem as either way they have either discharged the bottle or not done their checks diligently
3. Crews will therefore tend to report a problem promptly before departure.
4. This may delay departure (and they themselves may well have discharged the bottles in order to make the delay)
Irrespective of any the above, BA will undoubtedly record all crew names against all such incidents and be looking for trends and repeat names. They will then target checks of aircraft pre-boarding to check oxygen levels in order to determine likely timings of the discharging (ie on coming or off going crews) and follow up as appropriate with a disciplinary as appropriate.
For those crew who do not think this a possibility, would ask them to think about the rummaging campaign of 2007-8 that revealed several serial thiefs amongst crew.
I, myself, witnessed one such episode of a purser being taken off to the Heathrow police station having admitted removing 200 ciggies. Do crew really believe these rummaging episodes to have been random? I suggest not, and that the same tactics will be deployed against the serial oxygen dischargers.
Be warned, be afraid .... and stop being stupid
.Anyway, with regards to discharging of oxygen bottles by crew leaving the aircraft prior to a sector I would like to comment and draw a parallel.
1. Part of the cabin crew checks are to check that the bottles are full prior to departure at their individual crew station.
2. Crew not reporting a problem with the bottle are likely to dump themselves in the mire if the subsequent crew report the problem as either way they have either discharged the bottle or not done their checks diligently
3. Crews will therefore tend to report a problem promptly before departure.
4. This may delay departure (and they themselves may well have discharged the bottles in order to make the delay)
Irrespective of any the above, BA will undoubtedly record all crew names against all such incidents and be looking for trends and repeat names. They will then target checks of aircraft pre-boarding to check oxygen levels in order to determine likely timings of the discharging (ie on coming or off going crews) and follow up as appropriate with a disciplinary as appropriate.
For those crew who do not think this a possibility, would ask them to think about the rummaging campaign of 2007-8 that revealed several serial thiefs amongst crew.
I, myself, witnessed one such episode of a purser being taken off to the Heathrow police station having admitted removing 200 ciggies. Do crew really believe these rummaging episodes to have been random? I suggest not, and that the same tactics will be deployed against the serial oxygen dischargers.
Be warned, be afraid .... and stop being stupid
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I too, am banned from the other place, as I am a recent ex-employee, and hence deemed to have no right to comment.
Those of you unable to post on the CC thread, please spare us all the hissy fit outrage, especially if you are one of those who were caught ignoring the rules. Your martyrdom is of no interest to a majority here.
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Security...
Having had several conversations with corporate security at BA in a previous role, they have the means to install portable CCTV, including on board, if they need to get proof. This was done years back when trying to find out who was pilfering from baggage, and i believe also from onboard. Both very successful. They WILL easily be able to get a list of suspects based on who had access to the aircraft, and if they see patterns, you can bet it wont be long before they catch them..
There are actually very few people small minded or malicious enough to do such things, even though some might like to make noise about doing such things. And sooner or later, they will get caught, or someone else will turn them in.
There are actually very few people small minded or malicious enough to do such things, even though some might like to make noise about doing such things. And sooner or later, they will get caught, or someone else will turn them in.