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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 3rd Sep 2010, 11:11
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Juan Toguh:

Regarding this statement:

Quote:
I despise what BASSA is doing to BA, but I do not think that the reps are malicious and corrupt. They are horribly misguided and are doing irrepparable damage to their own union but I do believe that they are passionate and committed individuals striving for what they believe in
With all due respect I would assert that one can be "passionate" and also "malicious". Unquote

My personal observation is that BASSA reps seem to have knowingly mislead their membership, thinking not of what harm they could be doing to the individuals they are supposed to be protecting, and more of their personal egos and positions.

I can find no other explantion for the messages submitted by Mr. Holley, the advice given by Ms. Malone, the actions during negotiations, etc., etc..
What I find interesting is that Bassa have always had a number of 'thugs' in different guises, from the Holley's of this world who can 'generally' put up a good arguement, both interlectually and otherwise, to the thicker ones where its pure brawn over brain. What I've found sad, is that there have been reps who are good role models, but have turned a blind eye to some of the terrible stuff that been going on for years. Some time ago, a well respected rep told me openly that he KNEW there were bad apples in the camp, who ONLY went on trips that suited them and behaved in an undesirable manner to their members. They even named a couple ( I could have named them easily too for the record). But of course NOTHING was ever said to rock the boat. I was told by a colleague recently that a good friend of hers who had been a rep for years, had a big fall out with Mr. Tomorite himself by daring to question some of his methods. He then trashed her within the union and she decided soon after to resign from being a rep.

I honestly believe that we have touched only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to some of the undesirable stuff thats been going on in ' Camp Bassa' over the years.
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Old 3rd Sep 2010, 14:22
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I wonder if DH ever studied Roman history?

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has 'closed', the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all their rights unto the leader and gladly so.

Julius Caesar
Edit;

OK, possibly not Mr Caesar, but whoever wrote it could have had DH in mind.

Last edited by Airclues; 3rd Sep 2010 at 15:26.
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Old 3rd Sep 2010, 15:05
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Airclues

Wonderful - I have never read this before - it is an eternal truth.
Curiously it is neither Julius Caesar nor Shakespeare - it dates back to maybe 2001.
Excellent all the same.
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Old 3rd Sep 2010, 15:20
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The quotation is discussed by
Snopes.com
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Old 3rd Sep 2010, 16:52
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This is not going to make pretty reading for Duncan Donut:

British Airways (BA) will prevail in its fight with cabin crew, say leading business travel experts.

A threatened strike over christmas will have little impact on the business travel sector, but will exacerbate the public's disgust over the union's militant stance.

As Unite and BA prepare for the latest round of talks on Monday, the feeling among the business travel community is remarkably stolid.

Ken McLeod, director corporate at Advantage Travel Centres, commented: "Dare I say it's becoming boring now, because I think Unite is losing support."

According to McLeod, business travellers have become used to the strike action by BA cabin crew, now nearing its first anniversary.

"It's an inconvenience, but it's not going to damage their business," he said. "Business travellers will always find some way to travel. There will always be some way of getting to their destination."

The longer the dispute rumbles on, the less power Unite has, said McLeod. "They [the strikers] can disrupt things quite badly, but essentially BA has now got its act together."

Mark Avery, head of business services at Pricewaterhouse Coopers (PwC), said staff continue to book with BA, despite the risk of strike action.

"Even though it's a pain and travellers are pretty fed up with it all, there's quite a lot of certainty about what will fly and won't fly."

"Once the strikes are announced, people are not avoiding BA," he said."BA have been pretty good at announcing their schedules and keeping them running where they can."

BA's announcement that it will run 100% of long haul flights if there is another strike has added to this feeling of good will among business travellers.

"This adds to the surety for the traveller - the confidence that they can go ahead and book with BA and they will still travel and it's not going to be a major inconvenience."

According to Avery, BA's reputation has remained relatively untarnished. "I think commercially there is a recognition that these working practices do actually need to change and if they're going to survive as an organisation."

The reputation of Unite hasn't fared so well. "I think unfortunately the cabin crew have lost some of the public will."

A strike at christmas will damage this further, said Avery. "It's just not what the public want to see."
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Old 3rd Sep 2010, 17:48
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The Indy are also running an article which seems to indicate that passengers aren't exactly bothered by DH et al threatening more action. I'd be very interested to see if forward bookings for the Christmas period aren't even hugely hit.

BA have consistently delivered on what they said they were going to in terms of flights operating. Makes me completely confident of booking with them for any period of travel because they're making (already made?) BASSA pretty much at best an irrelevance and at worse a boring nuisance, and I really don't care if BASSA members and their lanyards strike, don't strike, or do whatever they wish to in terms of seeking alternative employment (as others have said, good luck with that one in the current economic climate). I'm still booking with BA, as are colleagues, and there are plenty of BA staff - not to mention the new recruits - who will ensure that continues.

I can also take a joke with the best of them, but some of the behaviour I have seen aimed at others on social networking sites in particular, from people I once considered good friends, has been devastating to watch. Bullying is far too weak a word for it and, as ever, I admire anyone willing to work through the threat of this ghastly type of behaviour.
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Old 3rd Sep 2010, 19:34
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We're still booking BA, both business and leisure.

Hello Duncan/BASSA ... <yawn>
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 07:30
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Please can all crew that are attending the meeting on Monday, make their way into the meeting and not talk to any press. This also applies at the end of the meeting . Please do not talk to any press, even if your identity has been protected. Hold your heads up high and walk in to the meeting and out of the meeting and stand proud. The press will not be allowed into the meeting.In the current climate we must protect everyone. Any press requests should be directed to Duncan Holley Branch Secretary. Thank you and see you all on Monday. Lizanne xxxx
It still baffles me to think that BASSA members rate Holley and Malone. They have led them nowhere and continue to lead them nowhere. Just WHAT are they fighting for? A knowing public have no respect for BASSA and no doubt also reason that UNITE should "cut them off without a penny."

MissM still bangs on about her stance and what she will do to maintain her militancy by ignoring her working colleagues. What a pathetic example of cabin stewardess she is, and what does BA think of her. I'll tell her what I think: she will soon have the wrath of BA down on her head and will be given her P45.

As for Holley. He should NOT be allowed to conduct a union as an outsider. He is persona non grata no longer employed by BA and, therefore, excluded from conducting union business - at least that is the way it should be!
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 08:46
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passengers not put off by BASSA..?

see also:......

British Airways strikes fail to deter travellers - Telegraph

Last edited by slast; 4th Sep 2010 at 11:54.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 13:55
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And doesn't the last 'word' ("xxxx") of Lizanne's communication say a lot about the calibre of the BASSA leadership? I'd expect to see it at the end of texts or chat messages from one teenager to another, but in a communication to union members about a branch meeting? Really...
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 14:09
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Northernlights:

It does have that sense of a "tweener text" about it. I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't follow it up with a comment regarding her belief that Josie and John James do really love each other..its real.

Additionally, am I the only one who noted that for an organization that constantly whined about BA "muzzling" Cabin Crew they are certainly working hard to prevent their members from freely speaking to the Press.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 14:25
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Additionally, am I the only one who noted that for an organization that constantly whined about BA "muzzling" Cabin Crew they are certainly working hard to prevent their members from freely speaking to the Press
To be fair, this is sound advice from the union and maybe the only sensible thing that I have heard from BASSA in a long while. The standard BA contract has in it a clause about not talking to the press without authorisation from BA. Advising their members not to talk to the press could well save some hotheaded union members from placing themselves in a position where they end up in front of a disciplinary hearing.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 14:48
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To be fair, this is sound advice from the union and maybe the only sensible thing that I have heard from BASSA in a long while. The standard BA contract has in it a clause about not talking to the press without authorisation from BA. Advising their members not to talk to the press could well save some hotheaded union members from placing themselves in a position where they end up in front of a disciplinary hearing.
Agreed. It's a shame that BASSA did not also give warning earlier to be careful about what members post on the cabin crew messageboards and social networking sites, as well as conduct at the workplace.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 14:52
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Juan:

You are correct.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 16:28
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Exclamation Holley on Monday!

Oh dear, standby for some severely deranged rantings from Holley over the next couple of days. His beloved Saints soccer team lost at home today, 0-2 to Rochdale. Mr Walsh will be shaking in his boots.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 16:41
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I'm sure Duncan is busy writing up his account of how next Monday's meeting went as I type.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 18:54
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Maybe we should help out with a suitable chant for the non strikers. How about

You’re getting Hollied in the morning,
Ding Dong the bells are gonna chime,
He tells a whopper.
And wields the chopper
So leave him in the lurch this time.


Perhaps we could ad some more verses.(all in the best possible taste of course)

Edit, couldn't remember the original, thanks NR

Last edited by NiteKos; 4th Sep 2010 at 19:42.
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 19:13
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Following Fin's soccer score, and NiteKos's poetry, with respect to Lerner and Loewe (My Fair Lady):

We're gonna see Miss M on Monday
Ding Dong the strikes are gonna chime
She'll be in yellow
Dunc will be mellow
Let's score one more own goal this time!


Pimms, anybody?
Thought not!
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 22:04
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Latest from Unite

Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 10:07 AM
Subject: BASSA: THE MEDIA AND WILLIE WALSH
Below is a recent letter from Unite's Andrew Murray to British Airways
manager Hazel Hughes who is the person investigating BASSA reps'
grievance into BA handing over to the media (Daily Mail) confidential personal details. As well as highlighting BA's continued use of dirty tricks in
their battle against us, it also shows the level of media connivance that
goes on and perhaps explains why it has been an uphill task to get the
media to cover this dispute with any fairness. BA and Willie Walsh have
very close links with papers such as the Mail and the Telegraph but also
other big organisations such as Sky. For example, we have seen
correspondence that proves Judith Simpson (Head of BA Corporate
Communications) is "very close" to Anji Hunter who is married to Adam
Boulton Political Editor of Sky News. Over the years BA have carefully
cultivated all the national media and with perhaps the exception of the
FT and the Guardian it is extremely hard to get balanced reporting let alone pro union coverage.

Dear Ms Hughes,

Your letter to Pauline Doyle of July 19 has been passed to myself.
Pauline is Unite's Head of Media and Campaigns and reports to me.

I infer from your letter that you are charged with investigating the
passing of confidential information held by British Airways on several of
its employees to the Daily Mail in the course of the current dispute
between your company and its cabin crew represented by this union.

Your letter makes reference to the article about Nigel Stott which
appeared in the Mail on May 17 2010. I would also refer you to the
article which appeared in the same newspaper on December 17 2009
concerning Lizanne Malone. Mr Stott and Ms Malone are both elected
representatives of Unite BA cabin crew.

Daily Mail reporters first approached Mr Stott, Ms Malone and a third BA
employee (and Unite representative), Mr Duncan Holley, in December last
year, at a time when Unite BA cabin crew had voted overwhelmingly to take strike action pursuant to the union's dispute with the company. You will find the reporters' names printed at the head of the articles.
All three colleagues reported - in emails received by Ms Doyle on
December 16 2009, and in subsequent phone calls to her - that the Mail reporters had asked them (or relatives at their homes) to confirm information regarding their sickness absence, annual leave and other personal matters.
The degree of detail already in the possession of the reporters (sick
leave taken, home addresses, absence on leave over a number of years) s
such as it could only have come from either your company or from the
colleagues themselves. It is apparent that Mr Stott, Ms Malone and Mr
Holley would have no interest in supplying the Daily Mail, a newspaper
extremely hostile to trade unions in general and to their part in this
dispute at BA in particular, with material to be used in articles aimed
at undermining the union's position. Moreover, some of the information was connected to personal and family issues which the colleagues named would not have wished placed in the public domain under any circumstances.

As for Ms Doyle, she would not have had access to any of the information
concerned, nor would have had any reason to seek to draw it to the
media's attention if she had. The first she knew of any of the details of
sickness or absence from work was when she was approached by the
journalists concerned, or by the colleagues involved after they had been
contacted themselves by the Mail.

It is of course apparent that only BA itself would have the means, the
motive and the opportunity to place such confidential information,
obtainable from the operational departments managing cabin crew, in the
public press. There are several indications that the company did so. I
have before me an email received in December 2009, before the first Mail
article appeared, in which a former BA employee recounts meeting a BA
board director at a seasonal party. The director confided "that BA had
released 3 names to 'united press?' as the trouble makers and asked the
Sunday papers to do a hatchet job on us. The names were Duncan Holley,
Nigel Stott and Lizanne Malone." Substitute "associated press" for
"united press" and you have an exact prediction of what actually
happened.

Furthermore, several journalists have advised me that the information was
leaked through the agency of British Airways corporate communications
department. No doubt you can direct enquiries to Julia Simpson and Paul
Marston concerning this. A simple check as to which BA employees the
Daily Mail or the reporters involved from company landlines or mobile
phones in the first part of December 2009 would go quite a long way
towards establishing who may have leaked the information

You should also know that Willie Walsh lunched with Paul Dacre, Editor of
the Daily Mail on March 31, some time after the newspaper began running
smear stories against BA employees. It may seem strange that your Chief
Executive should socialise with the editor of a newspaper attacking BA
employees if your company does indeed take such unauthorised disclosure of confidential information as seriously as you assert, but one can only assume that Mr Walsh would have taken the opportunity to ask Mr Dacre where he got his information from, and to desist from printing further such stories. Since Mr Walsh must surely have made such an appeal, given your purported concern at the leaks, it is more than surprising that further articles prying into Mr Stott's circumstances appeared subsequently. No doubt you will be asking Mr Walsh to elucidate on the matter of his lunch with Mr Dacre.

Given that British Airways has sufficient resources to monitor a large
number of websites, to track confidential text messages and Facebook
exchanges and to dispatch investigators to sit outside its own employees
homes in order to gather information on them the better to instigate
disciplinary action, I am sure that, given the will, you will find out
which of your employees has decided to place confidential employee data
in the press, but if I can be of any further assistance in pointing you in
the right direction, please ask.

Of course, Unite reserves the right to pursue those responsible for this
grave breach of BA's duty to its employees by whatever other legal,
industrial or professional means seem appropriate to us.

Yours sincerely

Andrew Murray

Director of Campaigns and Communications
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Old 4th Sep 2010, 22:10
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N-K N-R,

Thanks for making me LOL, so much so I've posted after a long absence (monitored only for some while) - it was getting quite tedious.

I suspect it will become slightly more interesting next week.

RK
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