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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 31st Aug 2010, 18:12
  #1681 (permalink)  
 
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Neptunus Rex:

I note that after his triumph in the Jungle he is back to Panto...

Messers Walsh and Francis I'm sure are prepared for this formidable foe.

Duncan Holley's unfortunate comments virtually asking people to fly another airline will have serious impact on BASSA. Watch the acceleration of Mixed Fleet being one effect, and rightfully done.

Last edited by Diplome; 31st Aug 2010 at 18:19. Reason: Additional comment
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 18:19
  #1682 (permalink)  
 
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Diplome
We could start a whole new thread on BASSA Panto characters - we would certainly not be short of Dames!
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 18:35
  #1683 (permalink)  
 
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@ Neptune ... tut tut, Sir
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 21:07
  #1684 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by baggersup View Post
One can only surmise that the thousands' silence is agreement with what the leadership is doing at present. How can one draw any other conclusion?
You can't, because it is probably the truth.
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 21:34
  #1685 (permalink)  
 
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If (and it is a very big if) BASSA are intent on damaging BA's revenue by threatening strike action they need to be very careful. Unless they have a genuine grievance they might fall foul of TULRCA. BA could then sue for loss of revenue. Sure, there's a soundbite in it for the union, but the cost will be severe. I quote from the act
Liability of trade unions in proceedings in tort

20 Liability of trade union in certain proceedings in tort

(1) Where proceedings in tort are brought against a trade union—
(a) on the ground that an act—
(i) induces another person to break a contract or interferes or induces another person to interfere with its performance, or
(ii) consists in threatening that a contract (whether one to which the union is a party or not) will be broken or its performance interfered with, or that the union will induce another person to break a contract or interfere with its performance, or
(b) in respect of an agreement or combination by two or more persons to do or to procure the doing of an act which, if it were done without any such agreement or combination, would be actionable in tort on such a ground,
then, for the purpose of determining in those proceedings whether the union is liable in respect of the act in question, that act shall be taken to have been done by the union if, but only if, it is to be taken to have been authorised or endorsed by the trade union in accordance with the following provisions.
(2) An act shall be taken to have been authorised or endorsed by a trade union if it was done, or was authorised or endorsed—
(a) by any person empowered by the rules to do, authorise or endorse acts of the kind in question, or
(b) by the principal executive committee or the president or general secretary, or
(c) by any other committee of the union or any other official of the union (whether employed by it or not).
Thus threatening strike action without a ballot could be a tort.

Legal bits aside, I predict that certain parts of the media will talk of this as a mass meeting even though the largest room at the venue is barely able to hold 750 people. It would be a body blow to BASSA if they were unable to fill that with supporters given that four times that number rejected the pay deal offered. Of course it won't be representative of the rank and file, only a naive fool would believe that to be possible. The whole meeting is a bit of a gamble in some respects. If there is a small number who are prepared to challenge the BASSA hard line in the meeting, it could backfire badly on the union. Instead of headlines about possible strikes, the media may talk of internal union strife and the way that dissent is handled by BASSA.
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 21:51
  #1686 (permalink)  
 
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On the legal issues, I think DH has been sailing very close to the wind for a long time. A lot of the comments he has made about the company and its senior management are defamatory. Time will tell whether the company has been waiting to choose the right moment to do anything about this.

As for next week's meeting, I suspect BASSA will not allow any cameras into the meeting. Whatever happens, I'm sure DH will issue a rousing account of the "electric" atmosphere, 100% support for a strike etc.
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 21:52
  #1687 (permalink)  
 
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The tactic of non union membership has not helped either. The mixed fleet bargaining group would not have been set, so the restriction on non membership was not needed. It that caveat was not there, then I imagine the uptake would have been greater.
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 21:58
  #1688 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LD12986 View Post
As for next week's meeting, I suspect BASSA will not allow any cameras into the meeting. Whatever happens, I'm sure DH will issue a rousing account of the "electric" atmosphere, 100% support for a strike etc.
It may have been a better move not to dismiss him and it still may turn out to be an unfair dismissal. It certainly has not removed him from the dispute.
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 22:11
  #1689 (permalink)  
 
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It is whether you look at new fleet as a new entity. You cannot stop anybody being a member of a union. However, you do not have to voluntarily recognise a particular bargaining group. New fleet will not have a recognised bargaining facility, as it is new, with new terms and conditions. The move to it would be voluntary and there would be no negotiating facility in place. The risk for BA would be if 50%+1 of transferees still wanted BASSA representation and could force the CAC into granting automatic recognition.

This is what I think would be the case, but that is based on my knowledge as a rep, not a legal expert, so I could be completely wrong!
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 22:15
  #1690 (permalink)  
 
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And it is a huge difference between loosing confidence in your negotiating team, to not having any team at all.
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 22:36
  #1691 (permalink)  
 
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It always helps if you remember that you are an employee first and never become full time, no matter how big the organisation is.
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 22:44
  #1692 (permalink)  
 
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It may have been a better move not to dismiss him and it still may turn out to be an unfair dismissal. It certainly has not removed him from the dispute.
Sorry to say, Duncan Holley has already taken BA to an industrial tribunal for unfair dismissal ... and lost. Hence his current boasts that BA can't control him. My understanding (and a BASSA member may be able to correct me on this) is that his position as branch secretary was due for election just before this dispute began. The decsion was taken to defer all elections until after the current dispute had ended. He is able to cling on to his job as branch secretary despite not being employed by BA as I beleive Unite allows branch secretaries to be appointed by the union as a short term measure pending an election. Perhaps Litebulbs can confirm this.

BASSA should indeed be worried at the rate that they are losing members and new staff are joining Mixed fleet. If BASSA call a strike for crimbo which results in strikers getting sacked, the replacements will be more mixed fleet folk. I would bet that this would also be the point at which more members resign the union, so could prove to be the final tipping point to derecognition. A pity really as there is clearly a need for a strong union in this area and a revived BASSA with new blood in the executive might mean a more foward looking union, but the way this is now shaping up, I can only see one end result.
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Old 31st Aug 2010, 22:53
  #1693 (permalink)  
 
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Colonel White

I have absolutely no idea on BASSA rules and that is only slightly less than my knowledge of Unite rules. You will need to speak to a branch secretary for that info, but I am sure that that may take some asking.
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Old 1st Sep 2010, 00:47
  #1694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Colonel White View Post
Sorry to say, Duncan Holley has already taken BA to an industrial tribunal for unfair dismissal ... and lost. Hence his current boasts that BA can't control him. My understanding (and a BASSA member may be able to correct me on this) is that his position as branch secretary was due for election just before this dispute began. The decsion was taken to defer all elections until after the current dispute had ended. He is able to cling on to his job as branch secretary despite not being employed by BA as I beleive Unite allows branch secretaries to be appointed by the union as a short term measure pending an election. Perhaps Litebulbs can confirm this.

BASSA should indeed be worried at the rate that they are losing members and new staff are joining Mixed fleet. If BASSA call a strike for crimbo which results in strikers getting sacked, the replacements will be more mixed fleet folk. I would bet that this would also be the point at which more members resign the union, so could prove to be the final tipping point to derecognition. A pity really as there is clearly a need for a strong union in this area and a revived BASSA with new blood in the executive might mean a more foward looking union, but the way this is now shaping up, I can only see one end result.
As I see it only members (Including retired) can hold office, however the Union rules state......
It is further required that a fair procedure be developed by the Executive Council to deal sympathetically with cases where a member’s eligibility to stand for election or continue to hold office may be affected by employer victimisation.
Not withstanding the argument as to whether he was victimised or not, this may be the reason he still holds Office.
To be honest it doesn't really matter if he is Branch Secretary or not. People are either listening to him, or not, dependent on which side of the fence they sit.
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Old 1st Sep 2010, 00:58
  #1695 (permalink)  
 
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call100

Thanks for the research.

People are either listening to him, or not, dependent on which side of the fence they sit.
Ain't that the truth. Scary. Isn't it??
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Old 1st Sep 2010, 05:03
  #1696 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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The broken record that is MissM

A possible threat of another strike over Christmas should be enough for WW to want to reach a settlement with us.

Nobody wants a strike but there are thousands of us will walk out at Christmas if necessary. I am one of those and I will not hestitate a second to do it.
It's actually hard to even care now. If MissM is real, she is beyond delusional.

If she/he is just a BASSA troll, then the subject matter does nothing more than reinforce the belief that the BASSA leadership are like Robert de Niro on the boat at the end of Scorsese's remake of Cape Fear.

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Old 1st Sep 2010, 11:09
  #1697 (permalink)  
 
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It’s not supposed to be like this: -

My partner has just finished a trip and was talking to a colleague who was moaning about his lot, the fact that he had lost wages through strike action, staff travel was gone which was causing him no end of trouble with his home life, he was worried about what sort of contract he was going to end up on and spent a lot of time discussing the stress of more forthcoming industrial action. He finished by announcing that it was the “end of flying as we know it”.

My partner answered by stating that she had lost no wages, still had staff travel and was now on a contract that she was very happy with and didn’t care if there was another strike or not. As far as the end of flying as she knew it, “nothing has changed for me” was her reply.

How can her circumstance be so different from his, she left the union at the beginning of the year thats how.

It’s not supposed to be like that is it now, really….
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Old 1st Sep 2010, 11:39
  #1698 (permalink)  
 
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Bassa rules and regulations

Re DH still holding onto Branch Secretary position - given the changes that the ruling elite appear to have made to the normal union rules over the years - viz : only Bassa allowed to control/agree a dispute, despite Unite; very stringent qualifications to be eligible to stand for election to committee; etc. - it would seem quite possible that due to a similar weasel clause, the BS cannot be changed until any outstanding disputes are concluded.

Surely someone out there has a copy of the Bassa rule book in all its glory.
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Old 1st Sep 2010, 13:46
  #1699 (permalink)  
 
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Snas:

Your post tells quite a story.

Personally, I don't think that BASSA wants to go out on strike..they know they don't have the support, they know that BA and their co-workers are even more determined to increase the operational success of the last strike.

I believe this is, more likely than not, part of Mr. Holley's "guerilla tactics" where he tries to damage BA by making threats they have no intention of following through with.

BASSA is quickly becoming a dog with no teeth, lots of barking but no bite.
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Old 1st Sep 2010, 15:14
  #1700 (permalink)  
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Matters are getting quite confused! Hard to know what is what anymore.

MissM is speaking through her woodentop and DH seems to be hell bent on on leading his(?) 'troops' to destruction while not officially in charge!? AND.......Unite have given notice that another strike is possible.

Can someone possibly read or understand any sense from BASSA/UNITE thicks?

No talks, yes there was, no there wasn't, oh yes there was, who cares - BA wins.
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