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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

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BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II

Old 30th Jul 2010, 08:02
  #921 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Results out £164M Loss for Q1 this year.
Not too far off what the Ash cloud cost.

If BASSA weren't such a bunch of useless, retarded they would have been in the black.

Thankfully BASSA don't matter any more.

Fine job, Mr. Walsh.

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Old 30th Jul 2010, 08:27
  #922 (permalink)  
 
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Simpson

Quote (Sky News) from Derek Simpson:

"These losses bring no pleasure to Unite. It is never our intention to see BA struggle."

Presumably he had his fingers crossed behind his back when he said it
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 08:30
  #923 (permalink)  
 
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Certainly not great news...but not all bad:

“The yields are really positive,” said John Strickland, an analyst at JLS Consulting Ltd. in London. “If they can do that against a backdrop of the ash cloud and strikes then it’s positive news in a difficult context.”

British Airways was trading up 1.5 percent at 219.3 pence as of 8:02 a.m. in London. The stock has gained 17 percent this year, valuing the company at 2.53 billion pounds.
British Airways Loss Widens on Crew Strikes, Volcano - Bloomberg

Interesting that the press is picking up on BASSA's threat to give BA and their customers another "12 Days of Xmas".

BA needs to continue to minimize the impact of the militant faction in BASSA. There can be no gaining of customer confidence while they are perceived to have influence.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 08:52
  #924 (permalink)  
 
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LB

Don't bring up the Everard incident. I wronged Tiramisu on that one. If there was no dispute, he might have got off, but why get yourself into that position?

I assume that if there was no dispute then he wouldn't have done what he did anyway. But if he had done that even when there was no dispute I'm sure the company's position would still have been dismissal for gross misconduct.

My company (a large private health company) would certainly take that view and we're not that well known publically. BA, as a worldwide brand, would have had little choice, even if it had wanted one.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 09:01
  #925 (permalink)  
 
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@Safety Control

On the other thread you have said numerous times that it is not unlawful to strike.

It has also been written oft, that it is not unlawful for a company to remove a perk, so we obviously have two conflicting laws: a situation that can only be resolved by a judge.

I think it very unlikely that UNITE will go to court because:

1) WW has offered to re-instate ST (without seniority) and I don't believe
that the courts will descend to ruling on the minutiae of whether an ST
user is likely to get a seat or not.
2) The union doesn't want to risk its funds on a long-shot.
3) They might fear that the ruling could go against them and create new,
explicit case-law that would allow this action in other disputes.

No 3) strikes me as being a similar situation to The War Powers Act in the US where Congress disputes the circumstances under which the President can declare war, but won't take it to court because they fear losing and broadening his powers.

On another point, can any one say if BA sought costs for the cases they won and if they didn't, are there any BA insiders, who would care to specualte why not ?
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 09:10
  #926 (permalink)  
 
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The point you are missing about perks is that you cannot just decide today that anyone called John is no longer entitled to them.

Of course perks can be removed but only a blanket removal (all employees) or because of some form of discipline issue or similar (you have done something wrong)

To select victims on the basis of red/blue, tory/labour, city/united, striker/non striker is fundamentally wrong and could well be classed as a human rights issue.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 09:24
  #927 (permalink)  
 
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Safety Concerns

The point you are missing is that they just have, and that currently, under our legal system, they are allowed to do so, because you are allowed to do anything that is not explicitly unlawful. Unless that's taken to court and the union win - which is anything but certain given the highly debatable nature of the law in this area - then you can't simply wander on here and say that they can't do it. Just because you want something to be so doesn't mean that it is.

Right now, the airline can. If the union want to take the massive risk of going to court, then it's possible in the future that BA can't.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 09:25
  #928 (permalink)  
 
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Safety Concerns - ST removal

ST has been removed - fact. What danger does this pose to anyone?

The legallity of BA's actions are the subject of discussion only; note that no legal action has been started regarding ST by Unite, Bassa or any other body.

Your concern needs to be explained to be understood.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 09:29
  #929 (permalink)  
 
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The "victims" selected themselves....after due warning
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 09:37
  #930 (permalink)  
 
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You are quite amazing and I am genuinely shocked that this attitude prevails in 21st century Britain.

Today staff travel, what will it be tomorrow? You are allowing your glee at someone else's predicament to cloud your judgement.

You are advocating discriminate punishment. I don't like the name John. From next week unless you change your name I am removing staff travel. Fair?

Unite have started legal proceedings over staff travel and should it go the full course (which I doubt) I fully expect them to win.

Last edited by Safety Concerns; 30th Jul 2010 at 11:10.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 09:55
  #931 (permalink)  
 
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Safety Concerns

Unite have started legal proceedings........

What does this mean?
Has Unite given formal notice to BA regarding these proceedings?

Er NO, didn't think so. It is just a bargaining chip to be played in the ever-slimming hope of redeeming something from what looks like a lost cause.

Again the question, without glee, is:

Why should the fact that a few thousand people have had a work perk removed present the rest of us with any problem at all?
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 09:56
  #932 (permalink)  
 
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Today staff travel, what will it be tomorrow?
Perhaps another non-contractual perk granted at the discretion of a company. I struggle to comprehend your end-of-the-world reading of this. I struggle even more to understand why you seem to think a perk is a matter of human rights. I can understand why a union might be interested in exploring that from a legal perspective, but it's anything but a genuine matter of human rights.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 10:02
  #933 (permalink)  

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Safety Concerns, if it amazes you that a significant number of people hold an opinion which differs from yours, then I think you have a problem ...
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 10:09
  #934 (permalink)  
 
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Safety Concerns

Unite have started legal proceedings over staff travel and should it go the full course (which I doubt) I fully expect them to win.
You keep saying this, but I really don't understand the basis of your argument. BA offered staff travel back as part of the latest offer. Therefore Unite simply don't have a legal case for this. That's a fact. There is no argument they can put forward that would enable them to get a case listed on staff travel generally given that BA has already offered restitution and Unite declined it. As I've noted before, their only chance is to identify individuals suffering real loss (ie having to leave their job), and concentrate on those for whom they might be able to construct a case that loss of staff travel was de facto dismissal. Even that is a long shot. Again, BA offered immediate reinstatement of a commuter route, but Unite declined the offer. The Courts won't interfere in this matter, as the resolution being requested has already been offered.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 10:20
  #935 (permalink)  
 
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How many?

I've seen so many different numbers regarding this thing and having listened to D Simpson on 5live this morning am even more confused. Can anyone help me with the following:

How many are still BASSA members, and how are the numbers substantiated?

If Unite have received 6000+ strike pay applications why are only approx. 3500 being deprived of ST?

Just curious.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 10:30
  #936 (permalink)  
 
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Derek Simpson "we have processed over 7000 claims for strike pay" quote from unite website

Our membership currently stands at 9562 - BASSA website
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 10:33
  #937 (permalink)  
 
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it isn't about the perk You need to remove yourself from the perk hang up.
It is about how we have arrived at a situation where some individuals have been punished without following due process.

They haven't offered staff travel to go back to pre strike situation at all.

SSK, it isn't about opinions. Somethings are wrong. Discriminate punishments are wrong. If there is anybody here who doesn't agree with that, we have a far more serious problem than I thought.

Last edited by Safety Concerns; 30th Jul 2010 at 11:11.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 10:37
  #938 (permalink)  
 
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leihard

So, 7000 strike pay claims but only 3500 ST withdrawals. How does that work?

BASSA numbers of members - how are these supported/audited?
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 10:37
  #939 (permalink)  
 
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You can disregard anything Simpson says, he is an habitual liar.

Example from today:

Derek Simpson, co-leader of Unite, again accused the airline of imposing changes on cabin crew without their agreement. He said his union negotiators had come within £10 million of the savings sought by BA - a "drop in the ocean" compared with today's losses.
Not even the fictitious figure they first came out with was close - because it was only temporary and they wanted it back.

This ridiculous old fool should just retire.
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Old 30th Jul 2010, 10:38
  #940 (permalink)  
 
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where some individuals have been punished without following due process.
In your opinion.

SSK, it isn't about opinions
Yes it is. Obviously, since there's no legal case going on, and if there were, it would then be about the opinion of the judges concerning the law.

They haven't offered staff travel to go back to pre strike situation at all.
And? Who says they have to? You?

Indiscriminate punishments are wrong
In your opinion this is a) indiscriminate and b) a punishment. And only in your opinion.


If there is anybody here who doesn't agree with that, we have a far more serious problem than I thought.
It seems we do. It seems the problem is that you think that anyone disagreeing with you has no right to think so.
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