BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions II
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Being married to the head of a rather significant entity here in the U.K., and owning my own business in the U.S., I can assure you that simply because you have managed to maintain pulmonary functioning in your position for a time certain is NOT going to bring you promotion in my world.
However, the concept of seniority is the curse of the airlines
If mixed fleet will offer promotion based on merit, then that is a good thing.
But we will see.
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So in light of the latest job offers from BA, is anyone else wondering why?
Why have BA not ended this? Why can they not end it?
Why have BA not ended this? Why can they not end it?
The fact that they can now do this with nary a murmur from the witless union lackeys is evidence to me that to all intents and purposes they already have.
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Paxboy:
There may be a link in that telecoms is another privatised industry in this country. It certainly isn't the norm across the private sector. I arrived at BA from another airline some years ago, and both watching from the outside, and then from the inside, was completely aghast at the freeloading culture within. It wasn't and isn't just a question of cabin crew, it was throughout the company. I can distinctly remember looking around on a Friday afternoon and wondering where everyone had gone - it simply doesn't happen in most companies. They do have inevitable inefficiences, but Tesco (for example) absolutely do not tolerate this kind of thing.
Trying to change that culture is difficult to say the least. Truth is, BA don't help themselves in the long run with their determination to offer voluntary severance packages. The best staff are the ones that leave, the freeloaders tend to stay.
Sure, I'm not saying that I support people loafing around!! When I was a telecomms consultant in the 1990s/early 2000s, I was very frustrated by seeing people being paid high sums of money when they knew very little about their job! They had just hung in there long enough, not upset anyone and bumbled along. As long as they did not make any major foul ups - they stayed in place.
It's not how it should be but it's how it often is. The larger the company the more difficult it is to trap time servers and wastrels. If those staff are often away from base (almost any travel company but you can include drivers of vehicles for delivery who were only restricted when the Tachometer began law and other workers away from base) then you have a major managerial problem. Many, many, many companies fail in that task.
It's not how it should be but it's how it often is. The larger the company the more difficult it is to trap time servers and wastrels. If those staff are often away from base (almost any travel company but you can include drivers of vehicles for delivery who were only restricted when the Tachometer began law and other workers away from base) then you have a major managerial problem. Many, many, many companies fail in that task.
Trying to change that culture is difficult to say the least. Truth is, BA don't help themselves in the long run with their determination to offer voluntary severance packages. The best staff are the ones that leave, the freeloaders tend to stay.
Last edited by Papillon; 25th Jun 2010 at 09:31.
It does seem that Unite are only balloting LGW crew who took part in strike action:
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/MESSAGE...W_STRIKERS.doc
Quote:
MESSAGE FOR ALL LGW STRIKERS
If you are a Gatwick crew member from either the BASSA or Amicus sections of Unite, and you took part in the recent industrial action, losing your staff travel, but, you have NOT YET claimed strike pay or have only claimed within the last 7 days, please email: ** ASAP.
This is to ensure you are included on the list of members to be balloted over the coming weeks
http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/MESSAGE...W_STRIKERS.doc
Quote:
MESSAGE FOR ALL LGW STRIKERS
If you are a Gatwick crew member from either the BASSA or Amicus sections of Unite, and you took part in the recent industrial action, losing your staff travel, but, you have NOT YET claimed strike pay or have only claimed within the last 7 days, please email: ** ASAP.
This is to ensure you are included on the list of members to be balloted over the coming weeks
If this is the person that has been advising BASSA throughout the dispute, perhaps she should consider another choice of degree.
Any suggestions?
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Ancient Observer:
Thank you for the smile.
..and ChicoG, I agree.
The only objection I'm reading from Unite regarding New Fleet is that they do not wish it to be separate, they want the crews integrated. BA is adamant they will not be mixed.
BA's position makes sense to me, especially after considering the difference in enthusiasm between Gatwick and LHR.
Thank you for the smile.
..and ChicoG, I agree.
The only objection I'm reading from Unite regarding New Fleet is that they do not wish it to be separate, they want the crews integrated. BA is adamant they will not be mixed.
BA's position makes sense to me, especially after considering the difference in enthusiasm between Gatwick and LHR.
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New Fleet operating separately from the EF/WW fleets is essential to realise efficiencies. Otherwise, New Fleet will be hamstrung by legacy inefficiencies.
I can't help but wonder whether BASSA have got BA to exactly where it wants to be. As soon as New Fleet gets to a reasonable size, BASSA (if it still exists) will have to start playing ball with the company to avoid crew being starved of work. Something of a "win win" for BA.
It is almost tragic that whilst BASSA has been throwing its toys out if the pram over imposition, two of the most fundamental changes to crew (pensions and New Fleet) are going ahead with no input from crew and agreement with BASSA.
I can't help but wonder whether BASSA have got BA to exactly where it wants to be. As soon as New Fleet gets to a reasonable size, BASSA (if it still exists) will have to start playing ball with the company to avoid crew being starved of work. Something of a "win win" for BA.
It is almost tragic that whilst BASSA has been throwing its toys out if the pram over imposition, two of the most fundamental changes to crew (pensions and New Fleet) are going ahead with no input from crew and agreement with BASSA.
"It will be like getting on easyJet,” said Duncan Holley,
Duncan Holley has an unerring ability to shoot himself in the foot.
In the Times to-day, he is quoted as saying -
It will be like getting on easyJet,” said Duncan Holley,
Well, as I am nowadays only a customer/passenger, Mr DH needs to know that the Easyjet experience on board in Europe is nowadays far superior to the BA experience on board. It has been so for some time, way before the recent changes in BA manning.
The Easyjet crew know that they are going to work for the whole journey.
Simples. They expect to work for the journey, and they do.
Many (but not all) BA crew from lhr, (not lgw) make it all too clear that the SLF are not customers, they are freight, and are simply preventing the CC from getting to their eat/rest positions.
If only the BA experience on board was as good as Ezy!! (As to getting on Board, that's a different story).
In the Times to-day, he is quoted as saying -
It will be like getting on easyJet,” said Duncan Holley,
Well, as I am nowadays only a customer/passenger, Mr DH needs to know that the Easyjet experience on board in Europe is nowadays far superior to the BA experience on board. It has been so for some time, way before the recent changes in BA manning.
The Easyjet crew know that they are going to work for the whole journey.
Simples. They expect to work for the journey, and they do.
Many (but not all) BA crew from lhr, (not lgw) make it all too clear that the SLF are not customers, they are freight, and are simply preventing the CC from getting to their eat/rest positions.
If only the BA experience on board was as good as Ezy!! (As to getting on Board, that's a different story).
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Ancient Observer
Well I'm going to disagree. Mrs Fin had 2 brilliant BA flights last week LHR-NCE-LHR & was served by friendly, polite CC members who couldn't do enough to please.
And she didn't have to pay extra to check in her luggage & she didn't have to join a rugby scrum to get to her seat because it was prebooked.
We're backing BA.
And she didn't have to pay extra to check in her luggage & she didn't have to join a rugby scrum to get to her seat because it was prebooked.
We're backing BA.
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fincastle:
I must agree. The boarding procedures are enough to scare me away.
My husband I were exposed to a similar boarding procedure on an emergency connection flight in the States...and I can only say "never again".
I must agree. The boarding procedures are enough to scare me away.
My husband I were exposed to a similar boarding procedure on an emergency connection flight in the States...and I can only say "never again".
I don't fly as much now as I used to, but I stand by my view on the onboard Ezy experience.
It is good.
Like you , I wish they would issue seat numbers, but once you get on the crew do want to serve you, and do work at it.
DH is part of the 1970s brigade who want BA to stay in the 1970s. It can't.
It is good.
Like you , I wish they would issue seat numbers, but once you get on the crew do want to serve you, and do work at it.
DH is part of the 1970s brigade who want BA to stay in the 1970s. It can't.
Why Jack Jones is causing BA's problems.
A little history lesson about TUs.
In the 50s and 60s, most TUs were pretty much autocratic set-ups. What the "Executive" said was the rule.....in some cases, an iron rule. The ETU (electricians) and then the EETPU (electricians combined with plumbers) were very much centralised. The Exec ruled.
In the late 60s, Jack Jones became the Gen Sec of the T & G and set about democratising the T & G. He wanted local Works Cttees of the T & G and shop stewards to hold more power, and the Central Exec and Full Time National Officials to have much less power. he drove this through, offending many in the centre, but pleasing some in the factories.
His model lead us to British Leyland situations, where the Trots and Anarchists of BL took the workforce out on strike with no control whatsoever from the T & G.
Unite have inherited the Jack Jones T & G local autonomy model - so the central folk in Unite have little choice other than to back the wierd and wonderful demands of the Champagne Charlies running bassa.
That's enough History for now.
In the 50s and 60s, most TUs were pretty much autocratic set-ups. What the "Executive" said was the rule.....in some cases, an iron rule. The ETU (electricians) and then the EETPU (electricians combined with plumbers) were very much centralised. The Exec ruled.
In the late 60s, Jack Jones became the Gen Sec of the T & G and set about democratising the T & G. He wanted local Works Cttees of the T & G and shop stewards to hold more power, and the Central Exec and Full Time National Officials to have much less power. he drove this through, offending many in the centre, but pleasing some in the factories.
His model lead us to British Leyland situations, where the Trots and Anarchists of BL took the workforce out on strike with no control whatsoever from the T & G.
Unite have inherited the Jack Jones T & G local autonomy model - so the central folk in Unite have little choice other than to back the wierd and wonderful demands of the Champagne Charlies running bassa.
That's enough History for now.
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The Latest BA Offer
Don't forget there is no intention of replacing the 184 crew on long haul flights when one down working was imposed last November. Neither is there any mention of the return of staff travel allowances to strikers. Moreover, there is no mention of any relenting on the disciplinaries.
Mixed Fleet will reduce costs and because salaries are not so generous, it will take us all back to the 1960s and 70s when cabin crew jobs were not seen as a career. Rather, they were taken by youngsters for a few years before marriage. So, holding down the pay rates might generate great resource turnover but it could also result in more energetic and committed crew members than some within the current complement.
Mixed Fleet will reduce costs and because salaries are not so generous, it will take us all back to the 1960s and 70s when cabin crew jobs were not seen as a career. Rather, they were taken by youngsters for a few years before marriage. So, holding down the pay rates might generate great resource turnover but it could also result in more energetic and committed crew members than some within the current complement.
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Courtesy of VSOPFables on the CC Board, and in reliance upon his/her representation, this part of the offer is quietly brutal:
Individuals who have asked if BA was going offer protections to those who kept the flag flying now have their answer.
BA has made the decision to deal with their non-BASSA staff on a one on one basis. I have no idea what this means regarding BASSA's rights as a Union representative, but a shot has clearly been fired across BASSA's bow.
The previous offer to partially reinstate flight crew is off the table, NO movement regarding Staff Travel or Disciplinary Procedures, hats off to BA.
Makes Mr. Holley's reports of cakes and alcohol look even more juvenile.
(my apologies for the bold in the rest of the text. I don't seem to have the skill to delete it)
Crew who are not members of Unite are being invited to accept the offer on an individual basis. Members of Unite who want to accept the offer are being urged to express their views to the union.
BA has made the decision to deal with their non-BASSA staff on a one on one basis. I have no idea what this means regarding BASSA's rights as a Union representative, but a shot has clearly been fired across BASSA's bow.
The previous offer to partially reinstate flight crew is off the table, NO movement regarding Staff Travel or Disciplinary Procedures, hats off to BA.
Makes Mr. Holley's reports of cakes and alcohol look even more juvenile.
(my apologies for the bold in the rest of the text. I don't seem to have the skill to delete it)
Last edited by Diplome; 25th Jun 2010 at 19:49.
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Superb manouvering. From the other forum I see a trend of " hey it"s not that bad a deal" "lets hope the union accepts it".
However, the union is going to look damned silly after publishing its grievances and what this next ballot will be about.
Bringing staff in, disciplinary's and staff travel. None have been addressed in this new offer and BASSA will likely have no choice but to ballot.
It will ineveitably lead to some CC saying enough is enough from these clowns and resigning from the union to be then able to take up the offer of signing up to the new agreement individually.
BA will not improve the offer to BASSA, it can only get worse and I think a lot of CC are realising this now.
However, the union is going to look damned silly after publishing its grievances and what this next ballot will be about.
Bringing staff in, disciplinary's and staff travel. None have been addressed in this new offer and BASSA will likely have no choice but to ballot.
It will ineveitably lead to some CC saying enough is enough from these clowns and resigning from the union to be then able to take up the offer of signing up to the new agreement individually.
BA will not improve the offer to BASSA, it can only get worse and I think a lot of CC are realising this now.
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Too late!
You can only sign up to the individual offer if you weren't a Unite member today.
As the message was sent to cc late this afternoon there was no time for last minute union resignations.
You can only sign up to the individual offer if you weren't a Unite member today.
As the message was sent to cc late this afternoon there was no time for last minute union resignations.
The latest BA offer is superb in the circumstances.
But....
It doesn't allow the BASSA CSD reps to put their feet up again
It doesn't return ST to the strikers.
It doesn't reinstate the bullies and skivers.
Does anyone think BASSA are likely to recommend acceptance just because its a great deal for 99.9% of their members?
But....
It doesn't allow the BASSA CSD reps to put their feet up again
It doesn't return ST to the strikers.
It doesn't reinstate the bullies and skivers.
Does anyone think BASSA are likely to recommend acceptance just because its a great deal for 99.9% of their members?
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Excellent strategy by BA.
Maybe they missed a trick though by stating "you can only accept if not a member of Unite on 25th June".........imagine extending that date to 1st July and see how many Bassa/Unite resignations there would be in the next few days so they can be eligible...?
May have seen Bassa down to 1500 members or even 1250.....!
Maybe they missed a trick though by stating "you can only accept if not a member of Unite on 25th June".........imagine extending that date to 1st July and see how many Bassa/Unite resignations there would be in the next few days so they can be eligible...?
May have seen Bassa down to 1500 members or even 1250.....!
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harrypic:
After giving it some thought I believe that BA's approach is actually appropriate. They have given the non-members of BASSA the ability to make their own decisions and have a binding agreement with their employer, and they have served notice on BASSA members that a very reasonable offer is on the table.
This is an excellent signal for the non-militant members of BASSA that it's time for you to communicate your wishes to your leadership. It is the members call.
Would be interesting, and almost amusing, if non-BASSA members ended up with a better agreement at the end of this dispute than those letting themselves be dictated to by individuals best qualified to give food and alcoholic beverage reviews.
After giving it some thought I believe that BA's approach is actually appropriate. They have given the non-members of BASSA the ability to make their own decisions and have a binding agreement with their employer, and they have served notice on BASSA members that a very reasonable offer is on the table.
This is an excellent signal for the non-militant members of BASSA that it's time for you to communicate your wishes to your leadership. It is the members call.
Would be interesting, and almost amusing, if non-BASSA members ended up with a better agreement at the end of this dispute than those letting themselves be dictated to by individuals best qualified to give food and alcoholic beverage reviews.