Bing-bong "This is your captain/flight attendant/whoever..."
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cardiff
Age: 48
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bing-bong "This is your captain/flight attendant/whoever..."
The BA strike raises an interesting question. Is it time for a root and branch change to the time-honoured rituals performed by flight-deck and cabin crew before they just get on with what they're supposed to do and take us where we've paid to go?
Why are we passengers constantly talked at and bonged at ?
Why do cabin crew and flight crew love the sound of their own dreary voices so much?
Why are we instructed to do this and do that and "wait until the seat belt sign is extinguished", and all the rest of this ritual of rubbish we have to put up with day after day.
I don't want to watch another lifejacket demonstration. I think I've got the idea now.
I don't want to be told how to fasten my seat belt - it's blindingly obvious.
I don't need to be reminded to read the safety card - we know how to evacuate the aircraft - in reality it's every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost.
...And I really don't give a damn what the name is of the captain of the plane - any more than I care who the driver is of my intercity train.
So why don't the cabin crew and flight crew do us all a favour and shut up?
Why are we passengers constantly talked at and bonged at ?
Why do cabin crew and flight crew love the sound of their own dreary voices so much?
Why are we instructed to do this and do that and "wait until the seat belt sign is extinguished", and all the rest of this ritual of rubbish we have to put up with day after day.
I don't want to watch another lifejacket demonstration. I think I've got the idea now.
I don't want to be told how to fasten my seat belt - it's blindingly obvious.
I don't need to be reminded to read the safety card - we know how to evacuate the aircraft - in reality it's every man for himself and the devil take the hindmost.
...And I really don't give a damn what the name is of the captain of the plane - any more than I care who the driver is of my intercity train.
So why don't the cabin crew and flight crew do us all a favour and shut up?
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm a Captain. I've been doing this job for quite a while now.
When I sit in the back, the cabin crew have my undivided attention for the duration of the safety brief.
What makes you think YOU are special?
When I sit in the back, the cabin crew have my undivided attention for the duration of the safety brief.
What makes you think YOU are special?
So why don't the cabin crew and flight crew do us all a favour and shut up?
I don't want to watch another lifejacket demonstration. I think I've got the idea now.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: A different hotel to the one crewing told me...
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'elf n safety for much of it, courtesy for some of it and sales revenue for a bit of it.
Sorry you find the interuptions and instructions so tedious, but you have to remember not everyone is as intelligent as you and many people are actually interested in where they are and whats going on.
SO, whilst it would be quite amusing to let you get on with it and do what you want when you want, it'll only happen when you waive all rights to sue because you've done something stupid and hurt yourself.
Sorry you've had such a bad day, but don't take it out on the crew....
Sorry you find the interuptions and instructions so tedious, but you have to remember not everyone is as intelligent as you and many people are actually interested in where they are and whats going on.
SO, whilst it would be quite amusing to let you get on with it and do what you want when you want, it'll only happen when you waive all rights to sue because you've done something stupid and hurt yourself.
Sorry you've had such a bad day, but don't take it out on the crew....
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ouch....
Corol raises an issue which as an SOP generates immediate knee jerk reactions from busdrivers and cc alike....
Perhaps it IS time for a debate on how to ensure in the best way to inform passengers on what to do, and just maybe we will end up again with the same briefings, who knows, but let's discuss it, without bashing the SLF on the head....
There are fab examples of great briefings (find them on Youtube!) but as all regular fliers know, there are much more awful examples of completely incomprehensible, utterly bored, disinterested going through the ropes briefings.
The psychology of crowds and crowds in confined spaces is worth a study. Even with a briefing surprisingly few passengers will look around for the nearest exit, as do few rock fans in an arena, so there is a need for some information being fed to the passengers.
Perhaps the videos some planes now carry are better?
a humble SLF
Perhaps it IS time for a debate on how to ensure in the best way to inform passengers on what to do, and just maybe we will end up again with the same briefings, who knows, but let's discuss it, without bashing the SLF on the head....
There are fab examples of great briefings (find them on Youtube!) but as all regular fliers know, there are much more awful examples of completely incomprehensible, utterly bored, disinterested going through the ropes briefings.
The psychology of crowds and crowds in confined spaces is worth a study. Even with a briefing surprisingly few passengers will look around for the nearest exit, as do few rock fans in an arena, so there is a need for some information being fed to the passengers.
Perhaps the videos some planes now carry are better?
a humble SLF
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: EGFF
Age: 43
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Korrol
Remember the first time you flew? I bet you paid attention and watched all the demo's then. Just imagine that out of the 200-300 people on the aircraft with you, there's bound to be someone flying for the first time who wants and needs to witness the demo's and be told that there's an info card in the seat pocket for them to read. Not to mention that different aircraft and different airlines have different procedures. If your ever involved in an incident i bet you'll see the worth of all this incovenience. The minute we start taking safety for granted is the very time an accident occurs.
Remember the first time you flew? I bet you paid attention and watched all the demo's then. Just imagine that out of the 200-300 people on the aircraft with you, there's bound to be someone flying for the first time who wants and needs to witness the demo's and be told that there's an info card in the seat pocket for them to read. Not to mention that different aircraft and different airlines have different procedures. If your ever involved in an incident i bet you'll see the worth of all this incovenience. The minute we start taking safety for granted is the very time an accident occurs.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
also @ Korrol,
A special seat is always available for those "special people" who don't wish to avail themselves of the PA's and Safety Briefings etc. - please ask on entering the a/c and i'm sure the crew will happily arrange for you to be seated on the wing of the a/c, if they're feeling especially helpful, a seat in the cargo hold may be preferable for you - note to flight deck - heat off please !
ah, know it all pax eh.....gotta love 'em
A special seat is always available for those "special people" who don't wish to avail themselves of the PA's and Safety Briefings etc. - please ask on entering the a/c and i'm sure the crew will happily arrange for you to be seated on the wing of the a/c, if they're feeling especially helpful, a seat in the cargo hold may be preferable for you - note to flight deck - heat off please !
ah, know it all pax eh.....gotta love 'em
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: East Midlands
Age: 84
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In some aircraft the life jackets are no longer under the seats but are stowed in the overhead with the lights, air con blowers and O2 masks. Worth listening to the briefing and finding out which applies on your flights don't you think? Speakimg as someone who has been SLF for over 50 years and always listens to the briefing - no reason not to!
There are also different models of life jacket, some have clips/straps to secure them and have long tapes to tie at the side. Again, worth knowing before the water laps round your ankles!
There are also different models of life jacket, some have clips/straps to secure them and have long tapes to tie at the side. Again, worth knowing before the water laps round your ankles!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: On a plane
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't want to be told how to fasten my seat belt - it's blindingly obvious.
Why are we instructed to do this and do that and "wait until the seat belt sign is extinguished", and all the rest of this ritual of rubbish we have to put up with day after day.
I don't want to watch another lifejacket demonstration. I think I've got the idea now.
Maybe some airlines and certain crew members in both sections of the aircraft that do like their own voices but you'll get those sort of people all over the place. It does however seem that you have overlooked a few points and there are real reasons why things are said and done and even YOU should still watch the safety demo
Safe flying
I'm a passenger.
Maybe there are several slightly different subjects here.
I have no problem with the safety demonstration. I've flown on all sorts of aircraft and even when they are (nominally) the same (think Boeing 737) there are a number of detail differences that I like to know about. Quite apart from differences in the base airframe, airline fit can make a difference to your escape routes.
Then there are what I'll call the "en route safety annoucements". Things like "We think we're going to encounter turbulence ....." and "we're beginning our approach.....". I consider them in the same vein as the safety briefing. Some airlines seem to be ultra cautious and spew them out with monotonous frequency while others are more relaxed but that's life.
The ones I do sometimes get frustrated by are the various service announcements. Are there people who like the sound of their own voice? Possibly. But I'm inclined to feel that much of what comes in the form of service announcements is "company policy" (there must be a welcome from the flight deck - I remember one pilot telling me he was sent on a training course so that he could deliver the message the way the company wanted) or "government requirement" (e.g. "we're going to hand out immigration forms") and some airlines look upon such announcements as an advertising or revenue opportunity whilst others take a more informational view. I've never been totally pi..ed off by such announcements but occasionally I find myself wishing they wouldn't be quite so long winded.
So, korrol, if you don't like the annoucements write to the airline and tell them which ones you think they should stop and why.
Maybe there are several slightly different subjects here.
I have no problem with the safety demonstration. I've flown on all sorts of aircraft and even when they are (nominally) the same (think Boeing 737) there are a number of detail differences that I like to know about. Quite apart from differences in the base airframe, airline fit can make a difference to your escape routes.
Then there are what I'll call the "en route safety annoucements". Things like "We think we're going to encounter turbulence ....." and "we're beginning our approach.....". I consider them in the same vein as the safety briefing. Some airlines seem to be ultra cautious and spew them out with monotonous frequency while others are more relaxed but that's life.
The ones I do sometimes get frustrated by are the various service announcements. Are there people who like the sound of their own voice? Possibly. But I'm inclined to feel that much of what comes in the form of service announcements is "company policy" (there must be a welcome from the flight deck - I remember one pilot telling me he was sent on a training course so that he could deliver the message the way the company wanted) or "government requirement" (e.g. "we're going to hand out immigration forms") and some airlines look upon such announcements as an advertising or revenue opportunity whilst others take a more informational view. I've never been totally pi..ed off by such announcements but occasionally I find myself wishing they wouldn't be quite so long winded.
So, korrol, if you don't like the annoucements write to the airline and tell them which ones you think they should stop and why.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VFR on Top
Age: 41
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it's a cool thing to get bored by the sight of a boring ritual, but after all it is a "ritual" and has to be done perfectly for everyone's sake on that plane. I don't even think the flight attendants enjoy themselves while showing how to fasten seat belts and the captain loves the sweet melody of his voice.Some info must be given to passengers,it's not a simple bus trip ,come on!
And finally this post with this title can get no sympathy from the cockpit and cabin crew.
And finally this post with this title can get no sympathy from the cockpit and cabin crew.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've moved this here from the CC Forum. I simply can't be bothered to explain to the OP why his/her post is both arrogant and misguided - maybe you can: Or maybe you'll agree with him. Either way, this kind of stuff is what makes all of us mods wonder why we bother to do this.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Near EGKK
Age: 51
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The psychology of crowds and crowds in confined spaces is worth a study. Even with a briefing surprisingly few passengers will look around for the nearest exit, as do few rock fans in an arena, so there is a need for some information being fed to the passengers.
I'd expect that the first-time fliers would respond to the request to "look for your nearest exit which may be behind you" as it was a new and unknown situation and they are paying attention. At the other extreme, I'd expect that the regular fliers would have a quick glance as they know the drill and would want to have an idea where said exit was.
I appreciate that I'm not normal in these regards (some friends might say in any regards
) as although I'm not a particularly frequent flier compared to some here, I ensure that I keep in my pockets the essential stuff I'd like to go down the slide with.(The original thread moved whilst I was typing this - and I appreciate the comments re: the original question - but there is potentially an interesting human factors discussion here. Maybe... Perhaps...)
Paul.
Last edited by paulthornton; 25th May 2010 at 20:02. Reason: Tightslot's note crossed with me taking the thread off at at tangent...
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not entirely sure that korrol is not trolling us. I'll pretend he's not, because all the long of my career I've heard presumptuous passengers thinking they know all (infallibility), they don't have anything to learn from others (egocentrism), nothing's gonna happen to them (invulnerability), so why should they change? (rigidity).
As you see these attitudes are well known and have all been studied. Their result is invariably someone getting hurt sooner or later. In the past, before the Human Factors breakthrough, even people working for the airlines used to think that way, and procedures were designed with enormous flaws in them. When accidents happened, they were consequently studied and corrections could be made. We still learn from incidents and accidents, fine tuning our knowledge of how the human mind works in certain situations and environments. Because this is the point. Understanding how our mind works, because in a situation of emergency we cannot trust it unless we know how not to fall in all the traps laying in front of us. Our reactions have been designed in thousands and thousands years to respond to situations arising in our environment at the times. Which means, not in airplanes, not in skyscrapers or such. Today, there are high chances you'll get yourself killed if someone doesn't point you to the right actions to take. Crews are taught how to direct people into doing the right thing, through knowledge of their environment, procedures and Crowd Control techniques.
What is very important to understand, is that if you are not a professional in our industry, you are very likely to be extremely ignorant without having even the slightest clue how ignorant you are about how it works and why it works that way.
It would be too long to expand here, but for those interested about the subject, I suggest a book that is very easy to understand even for the layman, and very enjoyable. It is called The Untinkable, by Amanda Ripley.
As you see these attitudes are well known and have all been studied. Their result is invariably someone getting hurt sooner or later. In the past, before the Human Factors breakthrough, even people working for the airlines used to think that way, and procedures were designed with enormous flaws in them. When accidents happened, they were consequently studied and corrections could be made. We still learn from incidents and accidents, fine tuning our knowledge of how the human mind works in certain situations and environments. Because this is the point. Understanding how our mind works, because in a situation of emergency we cannot trust it unless we know how not to fall in all the traps laying in front of us. Our reactions have been designed in thousands and thousands years to respond to situations arising in our environment at the times. Which means, not in airplanes, not in skyscrapers or such. Today, there are high chances you'll get yourself killed if someone doesn't point you to the right actions to take. Crews are taught how to direct people into doing the right thing, through knowledge of their environment, procedures and Crowd Control techniques.
What is very important to understand, is that if you are not a professional in our industry, you are very likely to be extremely ignorant without having even the slightest clue how ignorant you are about how it works and why it works that way.
It would be too long to expand here, but for those interested about the subject, I suggest a book that is very easy to understand even for the layman, and very enjoyable. It is called The Untinkable, by Amanda Ripley.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London
Age: 68
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have worked for over 10 years in crowd management.
Years ago many people died in a ballroom in Belgium. Fire had broken out and people finally tried to leave the way they came in, many did not make it.
What a shame, the ballroom was on the ground floor and there were many windows....
There are countless stories like that. People have a false sense of security in a plane or in an arena and so drop their guard. When the
hits the fan it's too late, they'll head for the door they came in through.
Only pointing out the other exits helps.
Years ago many people died in a ballroom in Belgium. Fire had broken out and people finally tried to leave the way they came in, many did not make it.
What a shame, the ballroom was on the ground floor and there were many windows....
There are countless stories like that. People have a false sense of security in a plane or in an arena and so drop their guard. When the
hits the fan it's too late, they'll head for the door they came in through.Only pointing out the other exits helps.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe it's time to perform phsychiatric testing on potential passengers to see if they are fit to fly as passengers. I'm SLF and have flown very regularly in the past, and only aboout 4 return journeys per year now, but I have yet to hear an unnecessary broadcast by a member of the Flight Crew. Safety first, especially in an unfamiliar environment
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dear Korrol,
I think you'll find that it's legislated/written in regulations that the Cabin Crew make those demonstrations.
Much like other signs, literature, etc in society, everyone has to cater to the "lowest common denominator".
As someone else mentioned, there are many people on most flights that ARE interested in where they are, how long to go, the weather etc.
You're probably that person that continues to talk on your mobile phone after doors closed, even though it's been said several times to turn it off. But I suppose YOUR call is THE most important.
The Darkness
Much like other signs, literature, etc in society, everyone has to cater to the "lowest common denominator".
As someone else mentioned, there are many people on most flights that ARE interested in where they are, how long to go, the weather etc.
You're probably that person that continues to talk on your mobile phone after doors closed, even though it's been said several times to turn it off. But I suppose YOUR call is THE most important.
The Darkness
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Confoederatio Helvetica
Age: 68
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cart before the horse?
No comment on the OP's post but;
I just watched four BA videos, over the last 11 days on two Aircraft types. (A&B).
Why is the bit about having the your hand baggage in the locker or under your seat, towards the end of the video? We were already taxiing by the time we saw that, and (correct me if I'm wrong) we aren't suppose to taxi if all pax's baggage hasn't been stowed.
Same with the seatbelt bit - we're already rolling, so isn't this a bit late?
Realise that the video (or non-video) demonstration could be done before pushback, but that isn't the norm these days. So why tell us afterwards what we should have done previously?
Also realise that it's probably not permitted by the CAA's version of 'elf and safety, but why not show that video at the gate? Sure beats that awful Sky-News stuff. And it would inform us of what we are supposed to do before we do it, not after.
I just watched four BA videos, over the last 11 days on two Aircraft types. (A&B).
Why is the bit about having the your hand baggage in the locker or under your seat, towards the end of the video? We were already taxiing by the time we saw that, and (correct me if I'm wrong) we aren't suppose to taxi if all pax's baggage hasn't been stowed.
Same with the seatbelt bit - we're already rolling, so isn't this a bit late?
Realise that the video (or non-video) demonstration could be done before pushback, but that isn't the norm these days. So why tell us afterwards what we should have done previously?
Also realise that it's probably not permitted by the CAA's version of 'elf and safety, but why not show that video at the gate? Sure beats that awful Sky-News stuff. And it would inform us of what we are supposed to do before we do it, not after.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting point Hamish. Stress is quite common in passengers, especially if something is happening that they don't understand. And believe me, this even covers a lot of normal stuff that happens in an aircraft but that is perceived as worrying and subsequently stressing by a large number (hydraulic pumps noise, change of levels in flight, etc). And when people are stressed there are more chances they'll do something not very clever and not adapted to the actual situation.
There are three main factors of stress, whic are 1)facing an unknown situation 2) Not knowing how it is evolving and how it's gonna last 3) Not being able to take action.
Information from the crew stops the mechanism of stress, simply by explaining 1) what the present situationis is, 2)how it is likely gonna last and what is being done to solve it 3) that you can help by doing nothing and let the crew do whatever they're doing and not divert their attention from their tasks.
What might seem "simple" announcements, actually are Crowd Control at work
There are three main factors of stress, whic are 1)facing an unknown situation 2) Not knowing how it is evolving and how it's gonna last 3) Not being able to take action.
Information from the crew stops the mechanism of stress, simply by explaining 1) what the present situationis is, 2)how it is likely gonna last and what is being done to solve it 3) that you can help by doing nothing and let the crew do whatever they're doing and not divert their attention from their tasks.
What might seem "simple" announcements, actually are Crowd Control at work