Bing-bong "This is your captain/flight attendant/whoever..."
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I've always found the oxygen mask bits to be the least informative - why not a video that shows the correct deployment (FAs rarely point to the right location from which the bags will come), putting them on (including pulling out the pin bit), and any aural or other clues that it is working ("please note, the bag does not inflate").
And when I say a video - I mean a realistic video with conditions in the airplane, while simulated, like they would be in an explosive depressurisation. (or is this a rare event itself?)
And when I say a video - I mean a realistic video with conditions in the airplane, while simulated, like they would be in an explosive depressurisation. (or is this a rare event itself?)
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Explosive decompressions are rare. Rapid or slow decompressions are more common, but still not a common (thank goodness!) event. 
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Saw a video of a simulated explosive decompression once, was above 40,000 but can't remember exact altitude. The guy knew it was coming and had passed out before he had the mask on, all he had to do was reach up, grab the mask, pull it and put it on. He got about as far as stretching the elastic about to put over his head when he passed out and the safety guy already in a mask had to finish putting it on for him. Would love it if they did show that sort of thing as has been suggested above about showing a realistic video. Would probably freak a lot of people out if they knew what it can be like especially because the pilots are in the same plane also without masks on.
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I had to resuscitate a man the other day who'd choked on some food. He went down like a sack of -er- spuds. It's astonishing how quickly it happens when you run out of O2 and it's unexpected. Sometimes you need to pull, on other types you just strap on. Another reason it's worth paying attention.
In the case of an explosive decompression, just think about all the crap that will suddenly become airborne - well, I mean airborne with reference to the interior of the aircraft. I can only think of three survivable, notable EDs; one was a fan blade that busted the fuselage when the pilots were playing with CBs, the UA flight which took a few pax out, and the convertible Hawaiian flight. There must be more.
It would be interesting to learn how many people have died because they've not known how to use their O2. Not that many, I think. There's that flight in Greece a few years ago where a slow leak incapacitated the pilots, and the FAs arrived too late.
SO
In the case of an explosive decompression, just think about all the crap that will suddenly become airborne - well, I mean airborne with reference to the interior of the aircraft. I can only think of three survivable, notable EDs; one was a fan blade that busted the fuselage when the pilots were playing with CBs, the UA flight which took a few pax out, and the convertible Hawaiian flight. There must be more.
It would be interesting to learn how many people have died because they've not known how to use their O2. Not that many, I think. There's that flight in Greece a few years ago where a slow leak incapacitated the pilots, and the FAs arrived too late.
SO
Paxing All Over The World
I'm not sure that any major overhaul would produce any measurable benefits.Even events that are similar (a/c type, weather conditions) are unique - because you have a set of pax who have never been through it before.
You cannot legislate for pax and what they will do. Even if you showed them worst-case scenarios, they would not take it in because that is human nature.
I have now read the CAA report on Flybe G-FBEH as suggested by Korrol, it gives me confidence that the system of oversight is working. The shortcomings in the evacuation have been noted but will probably appear again but in a slightly different form which will produce different results. As always in life, luck may not be on your side.
You cannot legislate for pax and what they will do. Even if you showed them worst-case scenarios, they would not take it in because that is human nature.
I have now read the CAA report on Flybe G-FBEH as suggested by Korrol, it gives me confidence that the system of oversight is working. The shortcomings in the evacuation have been noted but will probably appear again but in a slightly different form which will produce different results. As always in life, luck may not be on your side.
Last edited by PAXboy; 20th Jun 2010 at 15:05.
I wish to comment on the criticism of the gent wearing the life vest as a necklace in the picture of the water evac.
One explanation offered was for ease of swimming. That's one good point, as those of us who have tried to swim with buoancy assists (think water survival training, Navy) discovered. Perhaps this gent was more aware than some of his critics allow.
Another is that, absent risk of it slipping off his head if it isn't tight enough/sung enough under his jaw, the life vest in that configuration guarantees two things:
Downside: given the water temp that day, my estimation is that he'd not be able to huddle/curl to conserve body heat as effectively were he not in the raft, but as that's not part of the safety briefing for SLF, that point's probably moot.
I note that he's in the raft, so he's floating anyway. His personal flotation device is a back-up accessory at that point.
All said and done, I see little wrong with his adaptation of the tool, though I admit it looked curious to me when I first saw the picture.
I expect that most folks stick with the simple "this is how you put it on, wear it thuswise" guidance.
Whoops, my post count equals my age.
One explanation offered was for ease of swimming. That's one good point, as those of us who have tried to swim with buoancy assists (think water survival training, Navy) discovered. Perhaps this gent was more aware than some of his critics allow.
Another is that, absent risk of it slipping off his head if it isn't tight enough/sung enough under his jaw, the life vest in that configuration guarantees two things:
- he floats
- his head is above water, so he breathes.
Downside: given the water temp that day, my estimation is that he'd not be able to huddle/curl to conserve body heat as effectively were he not in the raft, but as that's not part of the safety briefing for SLF, that point's probably moot.
I note that he's in the raft, so he's floating anyway. His personal flotation device is a back-up accessory at that point.
All said and done, I see little wrong with his adaptation of the tool, though I admit it looked curious to me when I first saw the picture.
I expect that most folks stick with the simple "this is how you put it on, wear it thuswise" guidance.
Whoops, my post count equals my age.
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I too fly a lot. But I can't say that I find the safety instruction card terribly helpful - partly because unless you know what it is trying to tell you, you're lost. For example, it shows the 'brace' position without saying what it is or when it's to be adopted.
So although it may be of some help to native language speakers, the safety demonstration is probably more use. Having said that, I was on one flight in the US some years back where FA's accent was so broad I couldn't understand her!
So although it may be of some help to native language speakers, the safety demonstration is probably more use. Having said that, I was on one flight in the US some years back where FA's accent was so broad I couldn't understand her!
Seriously people, if you don't want to listen to the safety brief, don't. But watch out if you get in my way or the way of other, more reasonable people when we are trying to get out of a burning or sinking aircraft.
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Number 34
While your comment may be relative to the OP, I don't think it relates to my, or many other comments.
I haven't said that I don't want to listen to the briefings, I said that the briefings don't appear to be suit the objective, and that a rethink is needed.
Is your comment limited to those that fail to listen to the briefing, or do they equally apply to the elderly and the infirm? Frankly I don't want to be on the same aeroplane as with people with your attitude.
I haven't said that I don't want to listen to the briefings, I said that the briefings don't appear to be suit the objective, and that a rethink is needed.
Is your comment limited to those that fail to listen to the briefing, or do they equally apply to the elderly and the infirm? Frankly I don't want to be on the same aeroplane as with people with your attitude.
I haven't said that I don't want to listen to the briefings, I said that the briefings don't appear to be suit the objective, and that a rethink is needed.
I don't think it counts as training.
Do you agree?
If you want somebody to do something, training is often an effective means of transferring habits and behaviors.
Effective passenger training would include doing dry runs for donning life vests, for example, and a single dry run "how to get out of a tube via the emergency exit" events.
Hmmm.
People sit in the terminal for hours on end.
Why not have a "how to" booth for pax to practice donning the life vest for their flight? (PR reason: don't dwell on the negative, the airplane is just a faster bus to get you to see your cousin ... ) Get a ticket/coupon for having done so, while your fellow pax are still stumbling through security and full body cavity searches ...
Needless to say, most pax don't undergo training for things gone wrong, though crew do.
In your suggestion for a rethink, is training a path ahead?
Given how well the USAIR mishap/water landing was publicized, could various airlines consider that "since it might happen, drop by our little training booth and try on a life vest" with some sort of positive incentive to do so?
Free bag of peanuts?
I haven't come up with the sales pitch, but perhaps there is some room to encourage pax participation in training and being ready for the odd "it went wrong" event.
I just finished the NTSB report on USAIR 1549, and was interested to see how many people didn't get their life vests ... the briefings were apparently ignored or overlooked by a large portion of the pax surveyed.
*rubs head*
There is room for a process improvement here ...
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While your comment may be relative to the OP, I don't think it relates to my, or many other comments.
I haven't said that I don't want to listen to the briefings, I said that the briefings don't appear to be suit the objective, and that a rethink is needed.
Is your comment limited to those that fail to listen to the briefing, or do they equally apply to the elderly and the infirm? Frankly I don't want to be on the same aeroplane as with people with your attitude.
I haven't said that I don't want to listen to the briefings, I said that the briefings don't appear to be suit the objective, and that a rethink is needed.
Is your comment limited to those that fail to listen to the briefing, or do they equally apply to the elderly and the infirm? Frankly I don't want to be on the same aeroplane as with people with your attitude.
Of course I would help the aged and disabled, like any normal human would. But I don't want some suit to get in both my way, and the way of others just because he was to busy reading the newspaper when the briefing was on. If you don't think they deserve a good bollocking, your a kinder man then most.
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Of course I would help the aged and disabled
I have never heard a briefing where any guidance was given apropos assisting other people - apart from with the mask. Is there anyone from CC land out there who could advise us? My assumption has always been that it is the job of the CC to empty the cabin as quickly as necessary and then mop up the strays.
SO
@ sea oxen
Some of the earlier comments in this thread use the term Crowd Control, which appears to fit your idea: CC to empty the cabin as quickly as necessary and then mop up the strays.
At the functional level, does that not suit an evacuation scenario?
Some of the earlier comments in this thread use the term Crowd Control, which appears to fit your idea: CC to empty the cabin as quickly as necessary and then mop up the strays.
At the functional level, does that not suit an evacuation scenario?
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A quick view from the front left seat:
The safety brief is mandated in The Air Navigation Order (CAP 393) regulations 53 and 54.
A real goody is Regulation 77:
77
The safety brief is mandated in The Air Navigation Order (CAP 393) regulations 53 and 54.
A real goody is Regulation 77:
Authority of commander of an aircraft
77
Every person in an aircraft shall obey all lawful commands which the commander of that
Interestingly such things as safety briefs and seat belt signs are included in Reg 77. What most customers (I hate the term SLF) don't realise is that when we are taxiing to the gate and they unstrap, stand up and start grabbing their gear from the overheads they are breaking the law, and in doing so are uninsured. Early in my career I was P2 on an aircraft which had to stop suddenly while taxiing in. A lady who was digging her briefcase out of the overhead was thrown down the cabin breaking a couple of ribs, sadly she also broke the neck of another lady passenger with the case. A long legal battle ensued to gain compensation for the mum of 3 boys who was now in a wheel chair, my employers made a large ex-gratia payment to help until all was sorted, but it took about 5 years.
Please remember that as customers we value you highly, without you there are no jobs. But, when we tell you to do something it is for your safety, and while, like many of you I dislike long , rambling PAs, if there is an instruction then obey it, otherwise you are breaking the law. If I say pay attention to the cabin staff for the brief I mean it. I sit next to one of the best exits on the aircraft and will leave by that one, you need to know where yours are and how they work. As pilots we call our recent experience on the aircraft "currency" we are there all the time but consider ourselves "uncurrent" after two weeks off. As customers your currency will be no-where near as good as ours, so why don't you do as we do and take a thoroughly good brief.
SND
aircraft may give for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or
property carried therein, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air navigation.Interestingly such things as safety briefs and seat belt signs are included in Reg 77. What most customers (I hate the term SLF) don't realise is that when we are taxiing to the gate and they unstrap, stand up and start grabbing their gear from the overheads they are breaking the law, and in doing so are uninsured. Early in my career I was P2 on an aircraft which had to stop suddenly while taxiing in. A lady who was digging her briefcase out of the overhead was thrown down the cabin breaking a couple of ribs, sadly she also broke the neck of another lady passenger with the case. A long legal battle ensued to gain compensation for the mum of 3 boys who was now in a wheel chair, my employers made a large ex-gratia payment to help until all was sorted, but it took about 5 years.
Please remember that as customers we value you highly, without you there are no jobs. But, when we tell you to do something it is for your safety, and while, like many of you I dislike long , rambling PAs, if there is an instruction then obey it, otherwise you are breaking the law. If I say pay attention to the cabin staff for the brief I mean it. I sit next to one of the best exits on the aircraft and will leave by that one, you need to know where yours are and how they work. As pilots we call our recent experience on the aircraft "currency" we are there all the time but consider ourselves "uncurrent" after two weeks off. As customers your currency will be no-where near as good as ours, so why don't you do as we do and take a thoroughly good brief.
SND
Paxing All Over The World
Lonewolf_50, I think you have the start of a very good idea.
Initially all carriers will recoil instinctively - but only because they have done so since the start of time. In a LH lounge, children will be glad to have something to do and can then - in emergency - be a help to their parents not a hindrance.
Initially all carriers will recoil instinctively - but only because they have done so since the start of time. In a LH lounge, children will be glad to have something to do and can then - in emergency - be a help to their parents not a hindrance.
Thank you Paxboy
However, I do see a snag already in my idea. A given gate at an airport services many different kinds of aircraft, each with a possibly different seat, and a different life vest.
Caveat: a given airline may own an entire wing or concourse (my mind flies to the myriad of American Airline gates at DFW) of an airport, or lease it to the point that it is "X Airline's" concourse. For the majors at large airports, this might be more doable. A small kiosk with a variety of seats and life vests for trying out. For a smaller airline on tight margins, the expense may not make the cut for funding.
How to label such a small, fun, trainng kiosk?
Passenger prep kiosk, training ... how to get the most out of your flight ... marketing isn't my strongest suit, I grant you.
There is also the matter of dealing with the airport authority who wants as many segments/square feet of his airport area to be revenue producing ... what shop or pub is sacrificed?
While the trained passenger is more likely to respond well to things gone wrong, selling a cost benefit scheme in an industry where most flights are utterly uneventful for the passenger may be a bridge too far.
Lonewolf_50, I think you have the start of a very good idea.
Initially all carriers will recoil instinctively - but only because they have done so since the start of time. In a LH lounge, children will be glad to have something to do and can then - in emergency - be a help to their parents not a hindrance.
Initially all carriers will recoil instinctively - but only because they have done so since the start of time. In a LH lounge, children will be glad to have something to do and can then - in emergency - be a help to their parents not a hindrance.
Caveat: a given airline may own an entire wing or concourse (my mind flies to the myriad of American Airline gates at DFW) of an airport, or lease it to the point that it is "X Airline's" concourse. For the majors at large airports, this might be more doable. A small kiosk with a variety of seats and life vests for trying out. For a smaller airline on tight margins, the expense may not make the cut for funding.
How to label such a small, fun, trainng kiosk?
Passenger prep kiosk, training ... how to get the most out of your flight ... marketing isn't my strongest suit, I grant you.
There is also the matter of dealing with the airport authority who wants as many segments/square feet of his airport area to be revenue producing ... what shop or pub is sacrificed?
While the trained passenger is more likely to respond well to things gone wrong, selling a cost benefit scheme in an industry where most flights are utterly uneventful for the passenger may be a bridge too far.
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The safety briefing says "pull the mask towards you to start the flow of oxygen...". But how hard? A gentle pull or a hard tug? And can you tell straightaway when it starts? Has anyone on here had to do it?
Paxing All Over The World
Some carriers demonstrate the 'pull' with a strong double tugging motion to indicate that it's a firm pull. Some carriers have the pipe folded over with a red plastic clip on it. When you pull (we are told) the clip will spring off.
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What happens when a passenger won't fasten his seat belt?
This was the dilemma facing the pilot of a private jet in the USA chartered to fly a well-known tv personality . Here's the newspaper report::-
Famous comedian was deemed as a safety risk by airline pilots : Abby Dentner
According to airline pilots, comedian Dave Chappelle was a safety risk during a flight. Chappelle was heading home to Ohio on a private jet when he allegedly freaked out and caused a disturbance. The Comedy Central host claims he had to use the restroom, but the crew onboard said Chappelle’s behavior was unacceptable.
The pilot of the private jet carrying the comedian decided to make an emergency landing because he couldn’t cope with Chappelle’s “bizarre behavior.” He boarded a private jet in New Jersey heading home to Ohio.
Chappelle, 36, caused a disturbance during the flight and wouldn’t put his seat belt on, causing the crew to divert the plane to Pittsburgh
I'm not making any comment on this incident either way except to say that I think there is an implied - and unwritten - contract between everyone on board an aircraft in which all agree not to act in a way which inconveniences or hazards anyone else.
Famous comedian was deemed as a safety risk by airline pilots : Abby Dentner
According to airline pilots, comedian Dave Chappelle was a safety risk during a flight. Chappelle was heading home to Ohio on a private jet when he allegedly freaked out and caused a disturbance. The Comedy Central host claims he had to use the restroom, but the crew onboard said Chappelle’s behavior was unacceptable.
The pilot of the private jet carrying the comedian decided to make an emergency landing because he couldn’t cope with Chappelle’s “bizarre behavior.” He boarded a private jet in New Jersey heading home to Ohio.
Chappelle, 36, caused a disturbance during the flight and wouldn’t put his seat belt on, causing the crew to divert the plane to Pittsburgh
I'm not making any comment on this incident either way except to say that I think there is an implied - and unwritten - contract between everyone on board an aircraft in which all agree not to act in a way which inconveniences or hazards anyone else.
