Can a Captain put as much fuel on his aircraft as he wishes?

[FlyingVisit]

Are there restrictions to the amount of fuel a captain can request for a specific flight? Can he take more than necessary in case of bad weather (fog etc) just in case? I would say no, but I read somewhere on here a pilot saying the captain could take as much as he asked for. Sounds wrong to me.

[BOAC]

Whatever he/she takes needs to be sensible and capable of being justified if challenged. Otherwise probably a one-way ticket to the door.

[Final 3 Greens]

BOAC, a very experienced airline pilot, says it as it is.

The problem you get on here sometimes, is people quote the law out of context.

An aircraft commander has the authority to load the fuel.

So if I, as a PPL, decide to take the maximum fuel that my aircraft can carry within the weight and balance envelope and other considerations, then I am spending my own money and there are no comebacks.

However, when you are flying other people's equipment, you have to work within commercial considerations (which on include safe flying), so that is the context.

The definition of 'more than necessary' in the event of bad weather' and the definition of what is enough is something I will leave the pros to discuss

[trainee99]

In my company we're urged to take as little as possible, but I know of many who take an extra tonne routinely and I very much doubt if there'd be any repurcutions for taking a full load every time if that was what was desired. It's just that most captains understand the commercial/environmental/common sense considerations as well and tend to justify any additional uplifts of fuel - taking extra fuel to suit their own comfort thresholds. The vast majority are happy with flight planned fuel unless there is a reasonable justification for more.. Reasons of course include fog/thunderstorms/snow/bad weather in general, expected delays, expectations of longer routing etc. etc.

[Exaviator]

All major airlines have a fuel policy as part of their standard operations procedures, i.e.

Fuel to destination + Alternate + Holding + Contingency.

But having uplifted the minimum as required by his company the final decision as to any extra requirements rests with the captain. It is his responsibility alone.

[Basil]

Legally: Yes, but reaction of company to carrying excess may vary.
You burn about 3% per hour of extra fuel loaded so, if you stick on an extra 10 tonnes for a 10hr flight you will burn 3 tonnes just to carry it.

I did have a tendency to find reasons to carry a bit extra. I know that this was recorded in company statistics but no one in BA or Cathay ever said a word or challenged my decision.

[Fantome]

Yeah . .. . you canna just bung a bit more in for mum and the kids willy nilly without the bean counters ire. They just don't get it, the old adage that the only time you've too much is when you're on fire. Twin pistons generally a line not necessarily fine between what's enough and any extra that might make your s/e rate of climb (or descent)
sphincter activating.

[Chesty Morgan]

Flying visit, you have to remember that the flight planned fuel is the minimum legally required for that route. It does not take into account ANY delays that might happen. It also doesn't include any holding fuel so if I'm reasonably sure that we will be holding somewhere or there is adverse weather I'll take a bit more. How much extra really depends on the day. Our company policy is to carry 800kg extra if we are expecting a CAT II approach at our destination plus any extra the captain requires.

So the short answer is yes I can take as much as I want but I wont take more than I think is necessary or unjustifiable.

I should also point out that although the captain has the final say on the amount of fuel that is carried the first officer should be included in the decision making aswell.

[Exaviator]

"I should also point out that although the captain has the final say on the amount of fuel that is carried the first officer should be included in the decision making aswell."

Quite correct, in fact in my day we even included the F/E in the process, but the fact still remains, the final decision and responsibility remains that of the commander.

[G SXTY]

I should also point out that although the captain has the final say on the amount of fuel that is carried the first officer should be included in the decision making aswell.

Yep, I don't know many captains who decide on a fuel figure without consulting with the FO. Indeed, quite a few delegate the choice of fuel load to the FO if it's his sector. Regarding the decision making process, although the planned fuel burns in our plogs are pretty accurate, and if anything a little conservative (it's rare to for actual burn to exceed planned, and we can often save a considerable amount through short cuts or slowing down) as Chesty points out, they are a legal minimum, and don't include delays for weather etc.

Even on a gin clear day, somewhere like Gatwick can go from 'no delay' to chaos in the blink of an eye – all it needs is someone to burst a tyre or eat a seagull on the runway, or declare an emergency. When that happens, the (few) pilots who insist on flying round on minimum fuel don't look quite so clever.

[Chesty Morgan]

Quite correct, in fact in my day we even included the F/E in the process

Yep, I don't know many captains who decide on a fuel figure without consulting with the FO. Indeed, quite a few delegate the choice of fuel load to the FO if it's his sector

I even asked our senior cabin crew the other day. She got it spot on. Whodda thunk it

[jetset lady]

Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan

I even asked our senior cabin crew the other day. She got it spot on. Whodda thunk it

You'd be amazed at how much we hear and pick up on, Chesty Morgan. Just the other day, I had to tell the Capt that if he flared just a touch earlier, he'd find his landings would be much smoother...

Apparently, yelling "fill 'er up" out of the flight deck window at the refueller is not the done thing though. Or so I was told as I was marched out of the flight deck and placed back in the middle of the front galley

P.S. Before anyone says it, needless to say, I'm joking....

[Basil]

yelling "fill 'er up"

You've just made an old sailor blush

[Chesty Morgan]

Apparently, yelling "fill 'er up" out of the flight deck window

Hehe nice one JSL

Yelling is so last year. Of course, you should realise that using your fingers is the best way

[HXdave]

now i always thought the amount of fuel was based on how much was raised during the 'whip round' by passengers just before take off.

or is that just Ryanair?

[Final 3 Greens]

now i always thought the amount of fuel was based on how much was raised during the 'whip round' by passengers just before take off.

or is that just Ryanair?

IIRC a BA DC10 was despatched from one of the 'stans in the late 90s or early 2000s by such a whip round.

Edited to add: This was hearsay when I was a consultant on assignment at BA, whether it happened or not I cannot actually vouch for.

[TightSlot]

One of my personal Cabin Crew heroes (actually, the only one) was involved in having to pay for her own fuel - Long story, but Wiki covers it well...

Uli Derickson - a very brave Flight Attendant

[lowcostdolly]

OMG I always thourght the amount of fuel we could have on board was based on our spend per head targets at the loco's....if we exceed them we could have a bit extra?

In fact we have a formula where we can calculate if we are on target downroute and then we can let the flight deck know.......

[Fantome]

I wont take more than I think is necessary or unjustifiable.

Think you mean 'justifiable' cock.

[Final 3 Greens]

Thread drift, but as Tightslot named Uli Derickson, I'd like to nominate Barbara Harrison as a very brave CC member, who gave her life to save her passengers

Barbara Jane Harrison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia