Too Old for the Emergency Exit?

[Herod]

Just a query. I have heard, from a good source, of a couple in America who paid extra for the better legroom in the emergency exit. (Don't know which airline). On boarding, they were told that they couldn't sit there because, being 70, they were too old. I've never come across this one before and it strikes me as a bit silly. I know many people over 70 who would be quite competent in seat 0A; equally I know people of 30 who I wouldn't want on an aeroplane unless they were handcuffed. Anyone know more about this?

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

I can imagine that to avoid being sued by specific individuals who might be denied those seats for being incapable - since people love to take offence at any imagined slight, then sue for it, especially if they see a company as the defendent, the airline in question might have decided on an arbitrary age cutoff which would ensure getting most of the age-incapables in the net without them having to tell someone they can't sit there due to a perceived incapability, then getting sued.

[77]

Pax sat next to an emergency exit have to be capable of operating the exit unaided in an emergency. Overwing emergency exits of the window variety have to be removed and then jettisoned overboard so as not to block the exit. They are very heavy and would require a fit and able person to manhandle them.
The check-in agent made an error in this case in allocating the seats. There are several restrictions on seating people in various seats usually for safety reasons.
Hope this helps.

[Jarvy]

Here in the US you can not use age as a reason, as it is illegal to discriminate on the grounds of age for anyone over 40. Could there to more to this I wonder?
It would have to have been on their ability not their age.

[purplehelmet]

a few years ago on a flight to spain prior to departure me and my two traveling companions were asked to swap rows with 3 children who were sat in the over wing exit seats in front of us due to the fact they were deemed to young to young to operate the exit door in an emergency.my two companions were both over 6ft and lets say rather big boned.as we swapped seats i looked at the size of the exit door and then at my two companions and politley asked them if i could sit next to the window well one never knows.

[Load Toad]

Surely the purpose of the exit row is for it to be suitable for the evacuation of the aircraft and the ability of the seats, the space and the people sitting there is to best facilitate that if such a need arises?

Thus the 'comfort factor' is a bonus, not a privilege.

And therefore such seats should not be sold at a premium and filled only with people capable of performing adequately if an evacuation is needed?

Seems pretty chuffin' obvious to me.

Frankly I don't want to be burnt to death because some obese, geriatric with toddlers in tow can't open the exit and get their ass out of the 'plane.

[Final 3 Greens]

Frankly I don't want to be burnt to death because some obese, geriatric with toddlers in tow can't open the exit and get their ass out of the 'plane.

Yes, but you want low fares, so the airlines have to get their profit from somewhere, like selling comfort seats and if your ass gets fried as a result, you asked for it

[G-BPED]

Is this the story you are referring to?

'You can't sit there - you're too old!' Pensioners banned from plane's exit seats after paying extra for leg room | Mail Online

It was a Thomson flight to Egypt

Regards,

G-BPED

[10DowningSt]

They are very heavy and would require a fit and able person to manhandle them.
The check-in agent made an error in this case in allocating the seats.

What utter bollox. Have you ever actually picked up one of those panels?

The real bollox though is the implied assumption that soneone of 70 is not fit and able for that reason only.

Look around you, sunshine; I'll be 70 in 3 months time. So will lots of other fit and able people. I cannot imagine how I managed to get my zimmer frame across 20 miles of Dartmoor yesterday. Perhaps it was the pack on my back that helped.

I go for the overwing exit every flight for four reasons; firstly the legroom, and secondly because I know that I know how to get it open and out of the way fast, which 90% of your 10 - 40 year-olds in the UK would have trouble with seeing as how they are so effing thick, and thirdly because I do not want my way to the exit blocked by the 50% of that age-group who are obese as well as stupid, and lastly because I know that I probably won't panic (from experience in such situations) while I'm fairly sure that most people under 50, brought up as they are in a protective, risk-averse cocoon, will start screaming, climbing over each other, and otherwise not carrying out an orderly evacuation as soon as danger threatens, because they have never, ever, been exposed to anything more dangerous than crossing a road without doing a risk assessment.

Apart from those who join the Armed Services, and I would happily cede my seat to one of them.

Not fit and able, indeed. You touched a raw nerve with your misguided and patronising remark.

obese, geriatric with toddlers in tow

Reword that, matey. Geriatrics aren't that obese, usually, and don't come with toddlers in tow. It's obese 25-year-olds, sweating, smelly, tattooed, with toddlers in tow that frighten me.

[Load Toad]

Just trying to cover all eventualities matey.

[starbag]

Many airlines use the following CODPIE acronym for suitable ABP (Able bodied passengers) to be seated at self help exit rows;

C - Children (normally up to age 14)
O - Obese (require an extension seatbelt)
D - Deportees
P - Pregnant
I - Infirm
E - Elderly

Those categories should not be seated at a self help exit, but discretion should be used (ie plenty of senior travellers are perfectly suited to sit there, and an obese person might just be able to fasten the seat belt under their belly with considerable force (although seat belts at exit rows on my airline at least are shorter than standard seats!!)

[MPN11]

A week or so ago I was watching on of those jolly Air Crash programmes involving a 737 [?] landing at LAX on top on an aircraft holding on the runway.

Part of the body-count was attributed to the over-wing door not being thrown outside the ac and, instead, being left inside ... half-blocking the exit.

I don't care what definitions or descriptions people use to define exit-row occupancy, so long as the people who are sat there do the job when/if it's needed. If that means me being declared too old or feeble [physically, not mentally ] I'll live with the slur.

[PAXboy]

Unfortunately, most of the above responses are true and the challenge for CC to accurately guess the competence of pax to do the deed is a tough one.

The weight of the door is why some a/c now have a hinged overwing door that only requires to be unlocked and pushed - it will then swing up and stay on support struts. This example (if link works) shows a 737-800 on the ground with them open. Photos: Boeing 737-832 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

[Final 3 Greens]

What utter bollox. Have you ever actually picked up one of those panels?

I have and they are heavy - about 25 kgs and also an awkward shape to manage.

That, allied to having to pull in, twist, and throw out makes them difficult to deal with.

The new design on the 737 NG takes away this aggro.

[lowcostdolly]

F3G

I had just written an almost identical post but my computer (newly upgraded) is unpredictable on what it allows me to do on PPrune at the mo or perhaps it has ash contamination The post has disappeared when I pressed submit

10Downingstreet at my mob the elderly in our training acronym says "elderly if frail" then you cannot sit by this exit. We go on physical ability not age. Age discrimination is against the law.

Make no mistake here safety not comfort or revenue is the consideration at these exits which are unmanned by the CC during takeoff and landing....the very times an incident is likely to happen. If you or anyone does not appear to have the physical capacity to man these exits at these times you will be challenged and possibly moved by the CC....regardless of age.

I think this would apply in all UK airlines. With the greatest of respect to our ground colleagues many do not know what applies on board. The marketing depts of most airlines will capitalise on the revenue provided by these seats and consider nothing else at the time of booking.....

Who sits at these exits is at the sole discretion of the CC in accordance with company policy.... end of. That said it does appear on face value Thompson CC could have handled this better and more sensitively.

Personally this is an area which I think we could all brush up on in initial training.

[Final 3 Greens]

Who sits at these exits is at the sole discretion of the CC in accordance with company policy.... end of. That said it does appear on face value Thompson CC could have handled this better and more sensitively.

With an ageing population, this comment from LCD is insightful, although it sounded to me as if it was the ground staff who were not as sensitive as they could have been.

In another 25 years, I'll be entering the zone where I may not be able to handle an exit or drive properly.

Not nice to think about, so I don't and I enjoy each day as it comes, but the point about how to manage the situation sensitively, but decisively, is well made.

A few years ago, I used to fly puddle jumpers with a guy who was late 60s and used to tap a few of us 'young uns' to sit in the right had seat for local flights - nothing was ever said, but I am sure it was his way of recognising that he wasn't as sharp as in years before and adding a bit of safety margin.

I hope when I am no longer able to sit by an exit, I'll recognise it and mke the decision for others, before others make it for me.

[radeng]

Did they get their money back?

America West Airbuses always tell you to place the hatch on the seat. BA say eject through the opening. Take your choice.

[77]

10DOWNINGSTREET..
Quote What utter bollox. Have you ever actually picked up one of those panels?

Yes, many times. 35 years in aviation, a good portion in command does give me a little insight into the problem.
If you read what I said ..A person needs to be fit and able.....no mention of age.
In the end the cabin crew will assess the situation and if necessary change the seating allocation using the authority of the pilot in command.
End of matter.

[passy777]

Reword that, matey. Geriatrics aren't that obese, usually, and don't come with toddlers in tow. It's obese 25-year-olds, sweating, smelly, tattooed, with toddlers in tow that frighten me.

And very likely pi$$ed or stoned to the eyeballs!

I wonder how many times an 'unsuitable' pax has occupied an emergency exit seat and has been replaced by a 'fit and strong' younger person who takes it upon him/herself to get 'well refreshed' and becomes unconscious for the majority of the flight.

I am not criticising the airline policies, but I wonder how many passengers would be so keen on occupying those seats if an in flight alcohol ban was a condition of obtaining them.

[Herod]

Thanks for the feedback. It was certainly a US flight, although the Thompson is similar. I know about the doors and the weight thereof (retired 737 captain), and I agree a person needs to be reasonably fit and agile to sit at the exits. My concern in this case is the arbitrary asumtion that a person is unfit purely by reason of their age. I think if it were tried on me on a UK flight, I'd have them up for discrimination, and take a fitness test to prove my case.