BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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Bye Bye BA
Reading all the threads refering to this strike on various forums I have come to the conclusion that the civil war within the BA CC community will continue long after the IA concludes.
Add the damage to the reputation of BA and its staff, which will never be won back means, BA will probably never be the same again. So I forecast a slow and painful demise of a once great airline.
Taking a step away from the London Bubble and into the wilderness that is the rest of the UK you will find that nobody will actually care if BA implodes. There are plenty of other airlines that do an equally good job and do not force their pax to travel to London before taking them to a foriegn country.
Add the damage to the reputation of BA and its staff, which will never be won back means, BA will probably never be the same again. So I forecast a slow and painful demise of a once great airline.
Taking a step away from the London Bubble and into the wilderness that is the rest of the UK you will find that nobody will actually care if BA implodes. There are plenty of other airlines that do an equally good job and do not force their pax to travel to London before taking them to a foriegn country.
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Independent report uncovers BA?s climate of fear
Unite's latest, they are still trying...
However, independent could be argued, the author Martine Upchurch, used to work for a trade union and his repeated use of the word "macho" is a bit of a givaway also!
Unite's latest, they are still trying...
However, independent could be argued, the author Martine Upchurch, used to work for a trade union and his repeated use of the word "macho" is a bit of a givaway also!
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Professor Upchurch
Simon Calder of The Indie doesn't think much of Martin Upchurch's report either
I love that 'British Airways denies it' Must be true then!!
Professor Upchurch also describes the use of disciplinary action against cabin crew as "being reminiscent of the worse [sic] aspects of methods used by Stalinist secret police".
Have cabin crew really been subject to torture, deportation to labour camps or summary execution? British Airways denies it. And neither does the airline plan to change its name to Stalinair.
Have cabin crew really been subject to torture, deportation to labour camps or summary execution? British Airways denies it. And neither does the airline plan to change its name to Stalinair.
Last edited by PaddyMiguel; 3rd Jun 2010 at 09:50. Reason: added comment
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As a customer please could a striking cabin crew answer the following please.
1) If Unite/Bassa are so sure the removal of the travel scheme from strikers is illegal why make it a sticking point for a negotiated settlement, if you are so sure it's illegal then getting it back through the courts would be a certainty wouldnt it? at no cost to unions ( costs awarded)
2) When items are communicated by Bassa reps and then found to be innacurate or false by independant means why aren't the strikers asking questions?
3) When BA issues facts and figures which can be independantly verified why do strikers refuse to believe them. Do they imagine that all of society including TV news channels and papers wouldnt pick up on the "lies" but would instead go along with them?
As an aside, i wonder if BA aren't pulling a blinder. Collecting all of bassa's missives ie tales of no planes taking off, fictional commuters, ect and saving it all for a court case and getting strikes made illegal by the fact that "facts" were in fact lies to the unions membership and bassa/unite aren;t fit to represent their members..mis representation.
If mis representation could be proved would it nullify any ballot result as the membership were voting under false pretences and assumptions.
Oh Professor Upchurch's previous employment as a researcher and journalist for a UK trade union wouldnt of course colour his opinion
1) If Unite/Bassa are so sure the removal of the travel scheme from strikers is illegal why make it a sticking point for a negotiated settlement, if you are so sure it's illegal then getting it back through the courts would be a certainty wouldnt it? at no cost to unions ( costs awarded)
2) When items are communicated by Bassa reps and then found to be innacurate or false by independant means why aren't the strikers asking questions?
3) When BA issues facts and figures which can be independantly verified why do strikers refuse to believe them. Do they imagine that all of society including TV news channels and papers wouldnt pick up on the "lies" but would instead go along with them?
As an aside, i wonder if BA aren't pulling a blinder. Collecting all of bassa's missives ie tales of no planes taking off, fictional commuters, ect and saving it all for a court case and getting strikes made illegal by the fact that "facts" were in fact lies to the unions membership and bassa/unite aren;t fit to represent their members..mis representation.
If mis representation could be proved would it nullify any ballot result as the membership were voting under false pretences and assumptions.
Oh Professor Upchurch's previous employment as a researcher and journalist for a UK trade union wouldnt of course colour his opinion
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johnoWhiskyX
See post #168 (page 9).
Unite should be very careful what they say, as it could come back to haunt them in the future. Claims, such as one departure in two hours, which can easily be disproved by the average spotter, will not help their credibility in front of a judge.
Dave
See post #168 (page 9).
A reliable source has told me that BA are recording the claims made by Unite and intend to use them in a future court case. Apparently, if they can prove that untrue statements affected the finances of the airline, then they have a valid claim against Unite.
Can anyone with legal knowledge say whether this is possible?
Can anyone with legal knowledge say whether this is possible?
Dave
Last edited by Airclues; 3rd Jun 2010 at 11:08. Reason: quote inserted to save you scrolling back.
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Professor Martin Upchurch opines
In the real world of business and commerce what he calls "macho-management" is described as management actually running a company - and not the "macho" unions.
It may be hard for dyed in the wool trade unionists to accept that, but - in the case of BASSA - they are just going to have to bite the bullet.
- There are aspects of what might be described as ‘macho-management’ by BA, i.e. an embedded culture of bullying and authoritarianism deliberately engineered from the top echelons of the company.
It may be hard for dyed in the wool trade unionists to accept that, but - in the case of BASSA - they are just going to have to bite the bullet.
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I would think that BASSA/Unite's biggest problem now is that not only are they facing the prospect of seeing
but the strikers and their leaders have become a national and now an international joke, with their absurd claims and assertions.
Laughter is the most effective weapon that BA has, and all that Willie Walsh has to do is to ignore the Unite people until the strike has finished totally collapsing. Then he can sack the hard-core who will leave pursued by ribald laughter, and good riddance.
Heathrow is now back to 80% of the scheduled service. I very much doubt if there is a single person outside Unite and a few, very few disgruntled and delayed passengers who would care in the slightest about the strikers getting their travel privileges back unaltered, as the price of restoring the final 20% today, as opposed to by the weekend. It's time for a reality check for the strikers. But then that's been true for a long time.
our members and our union humiliated, victimised and reduced to ruins, as you seem to want
Laughter is the most effective weapon that BA has, and all that Willie Walsh has to do is to ignore the Unite people until the strike has finished totally collapsing. Then he can sack the hard-core who will leave pursued by ribald laughter, and good riddance.
Heathrow is now back to 80% of the scheduled service. I very much doubt if there is a single person outside Unite and a few, very few disgruntled and delayed passengers who would care in the slightest about the strikers getting their travel privileges back unaltered, as the price of restoring the final 20% today, as opposed to by the weekend. It's time for a reality check for the strikers. But then that's been true for a long time.
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Quote:
"Finally it was reported back that the USA steel workers have donated $100,000 to our cause. Don’t you just love them?" says Duncan.
"Finally it was reported back that the USA steel workers have donated $100,000 to our cause. Don’t you just love them?" says Duncan.
So they are part of the same international body, if you will.
If the USW gave money, it probably just means that Unite put a call out to all of their international partners who are now responding with some support.
But I wouldn't read too much into it. In my old company, any time there was a dispute in a brother/sister union somewhere, our company's union always sent financial support. The union sending the support did not necessarily have to agree with the dispute's goals. It's just standard op for unions.
I suspect the hard working steel workers, who know what a hard day's graft really is, wouldn't be terribly keen on supporting some rather fey people who live in sunny climes and commute thousands of miles to work, while their jobs are being sent to China. But that's just a guess!
It doesn't signfiy. Only to DH.
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QUESTION FOR EAGLES: If strike mandate has expired and no agreement reached, does it mean the workers are now on an unprotected strike, even if they are back to work and not actively withdrawing labor?
Pohutu
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Upchurch v Walsh...
A researcher from a trade union turned academic. A pilot and union rep turned CEO with BA and Aer Lingus on his CV.
Hmm, I like academics but then again I like pilots as well. But which one is most likely to be right about this dispute? There's only one way to find out: FIIIIIGHTTTT....
Hmm, I like academics but then again I like pilots as well. But which one is most likely to be right about this dispute? There's only one way to find out: FIIIIIGHTTTT....
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Interesting Statistics
Just posted on BA's Investor Relations website:
RNS Number : 0249N
British Airways PLC
03 June 2010
TRAFFIC AND CAPACITY STATISTICS - May 2010
Summary of the headline figures
The last 14 days of the month were affected by industrial activity by the Unite union representing cabin crew. Despite this, in May 2010 traffic, measured in Revenue Passenger Kilometres, fell by only 11.5 per cent. Passenger capacity, measured in Available Seat Kilometres, was down 4.7 per cent on May 2009; the strikes accounted for some 6 per cent reduction in capacity. This resulted in a passenger load factor decrease of 5.4 points versus last year, to 69.7 per cent. Traffic comprised a 6.5 per cent decrease in premium traffic and a 12.5 per cent decrease in non-premium traffic.
The financial impact of the strike continues at some £7 million per day. During the final strike period we have planned for an increased flying programme as more crew ignore the strike and report for duty. We have announced that we are planning to fly about 80 per cent of our longhaul programme including all JFK services and also all South African flights as we approach the World Cup.
The total cost of the strike period can only be assessed at the end of the disruption and will reflect lost bookings and reduced travel volumes offset by some volume driven cost savings.
Cargo, measured in Cargo Tonne Kilometres, rose by 7.1 per cent.
Market conditions
Market conditions continue to show improvement.
Strategic Developments
British Airways' two subsidiary airlines launched new routes this month. BA CityFlyer has started services to Ibiza and Mallorca from London City Airport, which will operate up to four and five times a week respectively. OpenSkies has opened a new route between Paris Orly and Washington D.C. which will operate five times a week.
British Airways continued its campaign as the official airline of the England 2018 World Cup Bid by flying the England 2018 bid team to FIFA's headquarters in Zurich. The value in kind partnership will allow the England 2018 bid team to fly around the globe to meet with key figures in world football as they seek to earn the right to stage the tournament in England.
June 3, 2010
British Airways PLC
03 June 2010
TRAFFIC AND CAPACITY STATISTICS - May 2010
Summary of the headline figures
The last 14 days of the month were affected by industrial activity by the Unite union representing cabin crew. Despite this, in May 2010 traffic, measured in Revenue Passenger Kilometres, fell by only 11.5 per cent. Passenger capacity, measured in Available Seat Kilometres, was down 4.7 per cent on May 2009; the strikes accounted for some 6 per cent reduction in capacity. This resulted in a passenger load factor decrease of 5.4 points versus last year, to 69.7 per cent. Traffic comprised a 6.5 per cent decrease in premium traffic and a 12.5 per cent decrease in non-premium traffic.
The financial impact of the strike continues at some £7 million per day. During the final strike period we have planned for an increased flying programme as more crew ignore the strike and report for duty. We have announced that we are planning to fly about 80 per cent of our longhaul programme including all JFK services and also all South African flights as we approach the World Cup.
The total cost of the strike period can only be assessed at the end of the disruption and will reflect lost bookings and reduced travel volumes offset by some volume driven cost savings.
Cargo, measured in Cargo Tonne Kilometres, rose by 7.1 per cent.
Market conditions
Market conditions continue to show improvement.
Strategic Developments
British Airways' two subsidiary airlines launched new routes this month. BA CityFlyer has started services to Ibiza and Mallorca from London City Airport, which will operate up to four and five times a week respectively. OpenSkies has opened a new route between Paris Orly and Washington D.C. which will operate five times a week.
British Airways continued its campaign as the official airline of the England 2018 World Cup Bid by flying the England 2018 bid team to FIFA's headquarters in Zurich. The value in kind partnership will allow the England 2018 bid team to fly around the globe to meet with key figures in world football as they seek to earn the right to stage the tournament in England.
June 3, 2010
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J Class service
Hi,
I know this question is slightly off topic but just wanted some advice. I booked J class flights from LHR - GRU on BA before Christmas as treat for me and the family as we didn't have a holiday last year due to economic circumstances (message there perhaps for our friends at BASSA). Now I know the flight is running but I just wanted to know whether the service is as you would expect. The BA website says it is but I just wanted to know from those who had flown on a strike day in club whether this is the case.
Sorry for dragging this off topic.. .
I know this question is slightly off topic but just wanted some advice. I booked J class flights from LHR - GRU on BA before Christmas as treat for me and the family as we didn't have a holiday last year due to economic circumstances (message there perhaps for our friends at BASSA). Now I know the flight is running but I just wanted to know whether the service is as you would expect. The BA website says it is but I just wanted to know from those who had flown on a strike day in club whether this is the case.
Sorry for dragging this off topic.. .
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J Class service
Rest assured. We flew J from LHR-CPT & LGW-TPA during the strikes & received the usual excellent service.
Depending on whether or not there are many VCC operating on your flight you may only get a cold meal service. Having said that, most flights seem to be crewed by full timers, such is the lack of support from the Bassa morons. (Apologies for being unkind to morons!)
For up to date info from the horses mouth why not send a PM to one of the moderate crew members on the CC forum. Hi Flyer 14 is a good contact.
Depending on whether or not there are many VCC operating on your flight you may only get a cold meal service. Having said that, most flights seem to be crewed by full timers, such is the lack of support from the Bassa morons. (Apologies for being unkind to morons!)
For up to date info from the horses mouth why not send a PM to one of the moderate crew members on the CC forum. Hi Flyer 14 is a good contact.
Last edited by fincastle84; 3rd Jun 2010 at 14:10. Reason: Additional comment
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In short, mhum, no, the onboard service is not J quality or anything approaching it now. Everyone is very nice, but it's not the old J service of yore. Catering seems to be the most affected aspect.
If you need more information about this, look at www.flyertalk.com and go to Miles and Points, then to the British Airways section. Look at the extensive thread that was created for pax to share their comments and complaints about strike-period service. The F service is getting the most discussion, but they talk about J too.
It should give you the information you want.
If food is important to you, eat in the lounge beforehand and leave enough time for a good meal there. Many pax are purchasing Plane Picnics at LHR to take on board.
My experience has been that meal selections aren't available as before. No menus. The drinks selections are spotty.
Crew are working below the staff they usually have, so the service reflects that. It's not their fault. They didn't choose to have that now infamous curry meal loaded!
I don't care as I do it for business and this too shall pass, and BA will eventually get back to normal.
But if you are using this J experience as a treat, you'll get the comfortable flat bed, lounge access and expedited boarding--that is if your airports honor that and many don't. Even at LHR it's spotty. And if the IFE breaks, which it always did constantly even before the strike, the crew may be so busy they can't restart it right away. And take the newspaper you want to read on board--those also might not be there.
I do miss that relaxing time before take-off with a glass of champers, topped up, with a newspaper whilst the rest of the plane boarded, sigh. That was nice.
If you need more information about this, look at www.flyertalk.com and go to Miles and Points, then to the British Airways section. Look at the extensive thread that was created for pax to share their comments and complaints about strike-period service. The F service is getting the most discussion, but they talk about J too.
It should give you the information you want.
If food is important to you, eat in the lounge beforehand and leave enough time for a good meal there. Many pax are purchasing Plane Picnics at LHR to take on board.
My experience has been that meal selections aren't available as before. No menus. The drinks selections are spotty.
Crew are working below the staff they usually have, so the service reflects that. It's not their fault. They didn't choose to have that now infamous curry meal loaded!
I don't care as I do it for business and this too shall pass, and BA will eventually get back to normal.
But if you are using this J experience as a treat, you'll get the comfortable flat bed, lounge access and expedited boarding--that is if your airports honor that and many don't. Even at LHR it's spotty. And if the IFE breaks, which it always did constantly even before the strike, the crew may be so busy they can't restart it right away. And take the newspaper you want to read on board--those also might not be there.
I do miss that relaxing time before take-off with a glass of champers, topped up, with a newspaper whilst the rest of the plane boarded, sigh. That was nice.
Last edited by baggersup; 3rd Jun 2010 at 14:26.
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Service etc
Lon-Rome Tuesday two delightful CC served all 5 biz class pax a plate of sandwiches. At least we in econ got a ham sarnie I could eat instead of the horrible cheese and onion on this route over the last nine mnths. Only jar was the rude and brusque CC ( vol?) who gave me a single red Smirnoff for my requested double vodka. To my mind this is a single but she wouldn't have it. Rom-Lon 3 weeks ago another delightful CC gave me two blue Smirnoffs which I thought was extremely reasonable. Still I spose one is lucky to get any service at all at the moment. Finally, I noticed the pilot in his intro made no mention of the CC led by X and none of the CC were wearing the usual name badges. It is a sad reflection that this should because they fear some sort of identification by pax and then Bassa retribution. Who made the decision for anonymity, management or the working CC's?
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I don't care as I do it for business and this too shall pass, and BA will eventually get back to normal.
Even without a strike BA wouldn't be on my list of preferred airlines. Will take them, of course, if their timings meet my schedule better or if someone else pays for my ticket (they are often the cheapest in business these days) but not out of choice.
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By Juan Odeboyse *4465...[I]we are the face of BA, and its our regular flyers which the above vcc will not see much of who appreciate us and want us to be back in the air happ. Its as simple as that.[/I]
I can't agree. This may have been true in some instances perhaps even recently, but I do not believe that, having seen what these strikers have been doing/chanting/emailing etc., even a small minority of regular paying passengers would now agree. How can this view be reconciled with forum comments delighting in dragging the BA reputation down?
I am disappointed that these misguided, misled CC believe it will ever be the same again for them. I am sorry to say it is time for a fresh start, and perhaps those enthusiastic VCC deserve a chance to help BA achieve this.
I expect the old chestnut of CRM (lack of) will now be raised. Throwing toys out of the pram comes to mind.
I can't agree. This may have been true in some instances perhaps even recently, but I do not believe that, having seen what these strikers have been doing/chanting/emailing etc., even a small minority of regular paying passengers would now agree. How can this view be reconciled with forum comments delighting in dragging the BA reputation down?
I am disappointed that these misguided, misled CC believe it will ever be the same again for them. I am sorry to say it is time for a fresh start, and perhaps those enthusiastic VCC deserve a chance to help BA achieve this.
I expect the old chestnut of CRM (lack of) will now be raised. Throwing toys out of the pram comes to mind.