BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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I am on the naughty step on the other thread, so I thought I would have a go here.
What do you think of this speech?
Tony Woodley?s speech
I am behind it 75% comrades
What do you think of this speech?
Tony Woodley?s speech
I am behind it 75% comrades
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Litebulbs, you lasted longer than I thought you would in there 
As for Unite and the speach, the ideology I agree with, but I fear a union so large has/will become a business/corporation no better than those it should be representing the employees of/from.
Its hard to hear Simpson talk about fat cat bosses when you look at his own package for example.
I'll give it 60% agreement, IF they stick to the principles.
---To add, the way they have allowed BASSA to run amoke for example is far from good.
As for Unite and the speach, the ideology I agree with, but I fear a union so large has/will become a business/corporation no better than those it should be representing the employees of/from.
Its hard to hear Simpson talk about fat cat bosses when you look at his own package for example.
I'll give it 60% agreement, IF they stick to the principles.
---To add, the way they have allowed BASSA to run amoke for example is far from good.
Last edited by Snas; 2nd Jun 2010 at 01:00.
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Woodley's rant
For those who don't have the stomach for reading Woodley's rant at the Unite conference I've copied the section relevant to BA. Have your sick bags ready!
Lighbulbs, welcome to this forum, I hope you'll enjoy your stay, no matter how short!
Let me also say a word about the British Airways dispute. I will try to keep my remarks on this to 140 characters, so Derek can tweet it in its entirety! But seriously - this has been a long and bitter dispute – and it is not over yet. It has caused inconvenience to the public, which we can only regret.
But I want to make clear one thing which I do not regret: That is about standing shoulder to shoulder with decent, brave men and women fighting for their right to be treated like the loyal professionals they are. I have done my share of strikes. When I look back I can’t defend all of them.
Like the time we all took a vote to call a strike at a mass meeting in the car park, with the factory on fire before our eyes. But this is a dispute which no self-respecting fighting back trade union could have avoided.
It is a dispute which can be summed up in a word: Bullying.
Some opportunists may call that adventurism or phoney militancy. I call it basic self-respect, and anyone not prepared to stand up for our members in struggle is not fit to lead this great union
So let me say two things from this rostrum today.
The first is to Willie Walsh.
Willie, we all know there is a deal to be done at British Airways. One that recognises the real commercial needs and problems of your company as well as our members’ legitimate interests. Unite is ready to do that deal. But we are not, and never will, be prepared to see our members and our union humiliated, victimised and reduced to ruins, as you seem to want - NEVER
My second message is to all our cabin crew members. Your union is proud of you. You have stood up not just for yourselves but for our movement as a whole. We have stood firm in the face of ludicrous anti-union judgements in the courts. in the face of a torrent of lies and smears in the Tory press, and in the face of everything a ruthless employer can throw at you.
We will continue to stand alongside you until this company sees sense and we have an agreement that we can put to you for endorsement with a clear conscience.
Comrades,
But I want to make clear one thing which I do not regret: That is about standing shoulder to shoulder with decent, brave men and women fighting for their right to be treated like the loyal professionals they are. I have done my share of strikes. When I look back I can’t defend all of them.
Like the time we all took a vote to call a strike at a mass meeting in the car park, with the factory on fire before our eyes. But this is a dispute which no self-respecting fighting back trade union could have avoided.
It is a dispute which can be summed up in a word: Bullying.
- Bullying that imposes radical changes on our members without agreement
- Bullying that has seen other BA employees incited against cabin crew with, to their lasting shame, the collusion of BALPA and scab pilots
- Bullying that has meant more than 50 of our brothers and sisters suspended or sacked for the crime of sending a text or posting a remark on Facebook
- Bullying that forbids them from talking about their own dispute in public
- Bullying that victimises trade unionists by branding them second-class employees for life through the discriminatory use of travel concessions
Some opportunists may call that adventurism or phoney militancy. I call it basic self-respect, and anyone not prepared to stand up for our members in struggle is not fit to lead this great union
So let me say two things from this rostrum today.
The first is to Willie Walsh.
Willie, we all know there is a deal to be done at British Airways. One that recognises the real commercial needs and problems of your company as well as our members’ legitimate interests. Unite is ready to do that deal. But we are not, and never will, be prepared to see our members and our union humiliated, victimised and reduced to ruins, as you seem to want - NEVER
My second message is to all our cabin crew members. Your union is proud of you. You have stood up not just for yourselves but for our movement as a whole. We have stood firm in the face of ludicrous anti-union judgements in the courts. in the face of a torrent of lies and smears in the Tory press, and in the face of everything a ruthless employer can throw at you.
We will continue to stand alongside you until this company sees sense and we have an agreement that we can put to you for endorsement with a clear conscience.
Comrades,
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I would like to stress im am and allways have been a union member, 28 years.
A normal working bod, not a First Pax not even flexible economy, plain old cattle class for me.
That speech was delusional. The more facts that are becoming public the more the Union and the striking CC are losing support. which as of today would be pretty hard to do because i haven't found one person who has said they support them.
The union would do well to drop the accusations of bullying, especially as people read or hear of instances of Working CC being inimidated by erstwhile collegues and some of the details of disciplinary procedures against striking CC.
A text or facebook post? People have been arrested for such things..terrorists, pedophiles, murderers. Just because they are striking cabin crew does not mean what they do should not be taken seriously or the effect it has on their target to be swept away.
picket lines have become synonamous with harrasment, intimidation to anyone who doesnt agree with their point of view. The actions and behaviour or the strikers hardly endears them to the public or me, oh so funny the lady with WW underwear, no, childish. "rather shag a loader than a scab" i am surprised pictures of thos singing the same aren't adorning the loaders locker room or rest rooms just as a reminder of the hillarity of course.
A normal working bod, not a First Pax not even flexible economy, plain old cattle class for me.
That speech was delusional. The more facts that are becoming public the more the Union and the striking CC are losing support. which as of today would be pretty hard to do because i haven't found one person who has said they support them.
The union would do well to drop the accusations of bullying, especially as people read or hear of instances of Working CC being inimidated by erstwhile collegues and some of the details of disciplinary procedures against striking CC.
A text or facebook post? People have been arrested for such things..terrorists, pedophiles, murderers. Just because they are striking cabin crew does not mean what they do should not be taken seriously or the effect it has on their target to be swept away.
picket lines have become synonamous with harrasment, intimidation to anyone who doesnt agree with their point of view. The actions and behaviour or the strikers hardly endears them to the public or me, oh so funny the lady with WW underwear, no, childish. "rather shag a loader than a scab" i am surprised pictures of thos singing the same aren't adorning the loaders locker room or rest rooms just as a reminder of the hillarity of course.
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johnowhiskey:
It truly puzzles me how BASSA seems to embrace the most negative and destructive elements of itself.
I don't believe that Unions are a bad thing..quite the opposite, they can be a force for good between management and the workforce. BASSA just does not seem to feel driven by accomplishing that sort of positive result.
My husband is meeting with his unions now. When I asked him how it was going last night he smiled and said "They don't think its enough but of course they wouldn't. We're talking and will come to an agreement. I have a good workforce."
He does have a good workforce..in part because of their reasonable and professional union representatives.
Thank goodness he doesn't have to deal with the likes of BASSA.
It truly puzzles me how BASSA seems to embrace the most negative and destructive elements of itself.
I don't believe that Unions are a bad thing..quite the opposite, they can be a force for good between management and the workforce. BASSA just does not seem to feel driven by accomplishing that sort of positive result.
My husband is meeting with his unions now. When I asked him how it was going last night he smiled and said "They don't think its enough but of course they wouldn't. We're talking and will come to an agreement. I have a good workforce."
He does have a good workforce..in part because of their reasonable and professional union representatives.
Thank goodness he doesn't have to deal with the likes of BASSA.
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I dont believe unions are bad either. But Unite are looking Awfull manly due to bassa background shenanigans.
There are bad apples all over but bass need to be removed. they are giving trade unionism a bad name.
There are bad apples all over but bass need to be removed. they are giving trade unionism a bad name.
Diplome/johno...
In agreement with both of you, particularly regarding the value of Unions.
As for BASSA specifically .....IMHO they've been used to getting pretty much their own way because of weak management within their department. Anything that threatened the senior Cabin Crew, especially those at LHR, was met with a chorus of "no's", and oft as not was followed by a management climb down ( sometimes thinly disguised as a new deal) after a threat of Industrial Action . It's therefore not really suprising that BASSA behave the way they do; they have never needed to learn the art of meaningful negotiation, and the need for a bit of give and take.
Think spoilt toddler and you'll get my drift ( I'm describing the behaviour of the Union, not the behaviour of the vast majority of my colleagues).
As for BASSA specifically .....IMHO they've been used to getting pretty much their own way because of weak management within their department. Anything that threatened the senior Cabin Crew, especially those at LHR, was met with a chorus of "no's", and oft as not was followed by a management climb down ( sometimes thinly disguised as a new deal) after a threat of Industrial Action . It's therefore not really suprising that BASSA behave the way they do; they have never needed to learn the art of meaningful negotiation, and the need for a bit of give and take.
Think spoilt toddler and you'll get my drift ( I'm describing the behaviour of the Union, not the behaviour of the vast majority of my colleagues).
Last edited by wiggy; 2nd Jun 2010 at 09:08. Reason: spelling, typos.
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It is hardly surprising that we have on the one hand strikers claiming that solidarity to the cause is hardening, yet the evidence all suggests the opposite. It is without doubt true that there is a small minority of BASSA members who have taken the "we will not surrender" position, and I'm sure that their resolve is as strong as ever. However it is also true that every strike period sees BA rack up their schedule at LHR by another 5% or so. Just recall that the 1st strike saw service reductions at LGW, and LHR operating only 777's on long haul, and the short haul routes that did fly mainly carried out by 18 wet leased planes.
To a certain extent BA's pool of VCC's is reducing, as many of the pilots are now back in the cockpit, and not pushing a trolly down the aisle, for this to happen the crews have to come from somewhere, and they can't all be hastily trained staff members.
The last thing that Willie Walsh needs now is a botched compromise return to work. BASSA have caused huge disruption over the past few years with their strike threats, of course they claim that this year is different, and they haven't walked out for many years, failing to mention the strikes which have been called off one or two days before they were due to start, when BA had already incurred the significant costs of transferring passengers to other airlines, cancelling bookings etc.
BASSA's membership drops by a few more every day, yet all that Duncan Holley can talk about is samosas and bouncy castles. Meanwhile Tony Woodley gives a speech to the TUC conference claiming that the unions have changed from their militant past, if this were the case it might have been better to have omitted words like "scab" and describing csd's on £50k as "comrades"
To a certain extent BA's pool of VCC's is reducing, as many of the pilots are now back in the cockpit, and not pushing a trolly down the aisle, for this to happen the crews have to come from somewhere, and they can't all be hastily trained staff members.
The last thing that Willie Walsh needs now is a botched compromise return to work. BASSA have caused huge disruption over the past few years with their strike threats, of course they claim that this year is different, and they haven't walked out for many years, failing to mention the strikes which have been called off one or two days before they were due to start, when BA had already incurred the significant costs of transferring passengers to other airlines, cancelling bookings etc.
BASSA's membership drops by a few more every day, yet all that Duncan Holley can talk about is samosas and bouncy castles. Meanwhile Tony Woodley gives a speech to the TUC conference claiming that the unions have changed from their militant past, if this were the case it might have been better to have omitted words like "scab" and describing csd's on £50k as "comrades"
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I guess one way to end this dispute is to finally run out of passengers and close T5 for a couple of weeks and start qing at the local football venue and try to enjoy the unhealthy junk food on offer there.
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ALDI and LIDL staff are self employed with NO holiday pay,no sickness benefit and pay their own NI and tax
The "make 'em work as self-employed" idea to avoid paying the employer's NI contribution was always a myth, even when lots of people (including us...that's how I know) tried it on. There's a number of tests, none of which is what either party chooses to call the arrangement.
The employers may well find themselves liable for paying not only their NIC, but also the unpaid PAYE, interest and probably a huge fine.
But we are not, and never will, be prepared to see our members and our union humiliated, victimised and reduced to ruins, as you seem to want - NEVER
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BAssa's membership figure shown on their website is falling by about three members per day at present. How long does it take for a member to resign and no longer be counted ? By rights as stated by baggersup, the membership should be dwindling far faster if the members who are working, and thus disagreeing with their leaders actually resigned.
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Those could be the ones who pay via direct debit and deal with BASSA/Unite directly.If members are paying by payroll they would inform their employer to stop taking the payments. I'd assume that the payroll department is only going to do this once a month - when they run payroll. So look for numbers to drop after this.
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British Airways was trading down 0.6 percent at 201.8 pence as of 12:35 p.m. in London, valuing the company at 2.32 billion pounds. The stock has declined 4.2 percent since Feb. 22, when Unite said members had voted to strike, versus a 10 percent drop in the eight-member Bloomberg EMEA Airlines Index.
Says it all
Says it all
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The strike is dead in the water. What next...?
Some strikers may stay out but BA are now coping to the point where they can sustain operations with or without them. On a personal note, I know which I'd prefer 
Strikers will continue to sneak back into work. Hardliners will carry on regardless
At some point the strike will be declared illegal if Unite don't wake up from their state of denial first. If it gets that far the remaining strikers will either go back in or be sacked and BA will seek, and probably get, compensation from Unite. It's hard to believe the union would push such a bad position but, if their rhetoric is anything to go by, maybe they are dumb enough to do so.
Clearly the strikers thought they were far too important for BA to manage without them. Clearly they were wrong. But I think the big dilemna facing BA now is the prospect of having these crew return to work with the puerile mind-set of BASSA.
Strikers will continue to sneak back into work. Hardliners will carry on regardless
At some point the strike will be declared illegal if Unite don't wake up from their state of denial first. If it gets that far the remaining strikers will either go back in or be sacked and BA will seek, and probably get, compensation from Unite. It's hard to believe the union would push such a bad position but, if their rhetoric is anything to go by, maybe they are dumb enough to do so.Clearly the strikers thought they were far too important for BA to manage without them. Clearly they were wrong. But I think the big dilemna facing BA now is the prospect of having these crew return to work with the puerile mind-set of BASSA.
Last edited by oggers; 2nd Jun 2010 at 12:52.
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oggers: Do you think that BA doesn’t have a pretty good idea of who is trouble-maker and who is gullible cannon-fodder? Once sackings become ‘legal’ they can be as selective as they like, without having to justify why striker X got pushed off the parapet while striker Y got passed by.
Once sackings become ‘legal’ they can be as selective as they like, without having to justify why striker X got pushed off the parapet while striker Y got passed by.
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Oggers
Once Bassa has been fully neutered & they're getting pretty close, BA will be in a good position to take full disciplinary action against any malcontents. All BA crew members will be happy to report any trouble makers, safe in the knowledge that they will be dealt with by BA without the interference of Bassa.
I'm old enough to have been a school boy when the ultimate sanction for bad behaviour was the cane. I still remember well the tears on the face of the school bully after receiving 6 of the best. He never caused trouble again.
I firmly beleive that many of the Bassa members will once again meekly become loyal BA CC once they realise that the Bassa bully has been soundly whipped by Mr Walsh.
I'm old enough to have been a school boy when the ultimate sanction for bad behaviour was the cane. I still remember well the tears on the face of the school bully after receiving 6 of the best. He never caused trouble again.
I firmly beleive that many of the Bassa members will once again meekly become loyal BA CC once they realise that the Bassa bully has been soundly whipped by Mr Walsh.
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Once sackings become ‘legal’ they can be as selective as they like
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I saw a news clip somewhere the other day of some strange looking people chanting(ranting) at a meeting place where WW was present. If any of them were BACC staff then shame on BA for employing them. Surely there is some basic level of intelligence expected to be met by interviewees! Some of them looked like the effort involved in waking up in the morning left them in, or took them to, their usual level of incompetence.
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Once sackings become ‘legal’ they can be as selective as they like, without having to justify why striker X got pushed off the parapet while striker Y got passed by.
Really (genuine, not a rhetorical question)?
However, the bottom line is that (and this really is my area as an employer of over 3,000) you can sack who you like, when you like, accepting that it may cost you a few bob. Unless you are foolish enough to bring disability, race etc into the mix a few bob is all that it costs you, financially at least.
BUT, I'll quickly state that I dont behave like that as an employer, and (alas possibly) neither do BA from what I have observed.
Me, I think that BA may well commence proceedings against some, but for simply striking I dont think so. For behaving like a co*k whilst on strike perhaps, creating silly web site and all that jazz - simply for striking, again I doubt it.
Semp66 - To the best of my knowledge none of the people you saw in your vid clip were BA cabin crew, I have certainly seen no evidence to even suggest such was the case. For the most part they were SWP demo types and had invaded a private meeting. You know, a good ol' fashioned demo and sit-in sort of thing - however misguided in this case I'm all in favour of a good demo when it is needed.
Last edited by Snas; 2nd Jun 2010 at 14:58.