BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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... and ensure there are at least two flights you can take to get to work, and, usually, have options on other carriers (most ST tickets can be used without further endorsement on other airlines such as BMi and Virgin), and, if long haul, have back up tickets through an 'easy' station such as JFK.
I don't commute by air, but would be subject to a disciplinary if I was late back from holiday. To date, following the above, I have never had a problem.
I don't commute by air, but would be subject to a disciplinary if I was late back from holiday. To date, following the above, I have never had a problem.
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myth conceptions
Was recently chatting to a few collegues regarding the IA. one is a confirmed Vriginite and the other swears by BA. Both were shocked when i pointed out that the strike was by 4000 ish BA staff and that the rest of the BA staff, loaders, pilots ramp ect had no problem with it at all..no idea of what number constitute "the rest of BA" but they both found it appaling that 4000 may be able to dictate and threaten the lively hood of possible 30, 000?
Of course the conversation got around to staff travel, we have just had our travel allowance removed. so initially sympathy abounded until i mentioned people are crying aout flying to work..living in portugal or some foreign country and working UK. Expletives abounded. The result was best described as " own bloody stupid fault" or " well do what ordinary people do, move house close to where you work!"
Do the strikers have any inkling of the lack of support and in a lot of cases despise they engender from members of the public and users of BA's services?
Of course the conversation got around to staff travel, we have just had our travel allowance removed. so initially sympathy abounded until i mentioned people are crying aout flying to work..living in portugal or some foreign country and working UK. Expletives abounded. The result was best described as " own bloody stupid fault" or " well do what ordinary people do, move house close to where you work!"
Do the strikers have any inkling of the lack of support and in a lot of cases despise they engender from members of the public and users of BA's services?
johnoWhiskyX I agree with you but in the end I don't see it as any different to people who buy a holiday home somewhere on the assumption that a low cost flies to the local airport and then get annoyed when the service is withdrawn. I'm also amazed by people in the UK who commute anything more than an hour - the risk of things going wrong is too high in my view.
johno
sympathy abounded until i mentioned people are crying about flying to work..living in portugal or some foreign country and working UK. Expletives abounded
In reality there are plenty of Brits down here in my part of France who "commute" by air to the UK to work, I know of oil industry workers ( commuting maybe 5-6 times a year), City types ( once a week - so similar frequency to airline crew ), and there's even the odd one or two high powered types who do a daily commute to London when the schedules allow it....so it's really not that unusual, what is unusual is being stupid enough to jeopardise your ability to do it.
Do the strikers have any inkling of the lack of support and in a lot of cases despise they engender from members of the public and users of BA's services?
Last edited by wiggy; 29th May 2010 at 07:52.
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One question I have, the dispute now appears to be about the non-contractual staff travel benefit, with various people on the other crew forum complaining that it is a vital benefit to getting to work.
What happens if BA were to offer it back, but make it contractual? Surely if the company were feeling vindictive they would do that, then it wouldnt be worth the paper its written on because of the massive tax implications....
Surely Bassa would be better off looking at the tax implications of this before insisting.
What happens if BA were to offer it back, but make it contractual? Surely if the company were feeling vindictive they would do that, then it wouldnt be worth the paper its written on because of the massive tax implications....
Surely Bassa would be better off looking at the tax implications of this before insisting.
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the problem is Jethrobee that the 30000 odd other BA staff who have supported the company and whose staff travel would also have to be made contractual and taxable might be more than a little miffed...add to that that the Revenue would then probably view ALL airline staff travel in the UK as a taxable item then you going to have a lot of unhappy people
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Training required for different positions
I would like to state that all the training times listed are approximate, and that I appreciate that things will very from country to country and from operator to operator.
Training time required for pilot to attain ATPL :-
2 years
Training time required to become an EASA licensed aircraft engineer :-
3 years absolute minimum
Training time required to become cabin crew :-
3 weeks.......
Now, I wonder which group of people are most easily replaced if so required....
Training time required for pilot to attain ATPL :-
2 years
Training time required to become an EASA licensed aircraft engineer :-
3 years absolute minimum
Training time required to become cabin crew :-
3 weeks.......
Now, I wonder which group of people are most easily replaced if so required....
jethrobee:
dilldog1:
Please don't underestimate BASSA's ability to cut of their nose to spite their face, so to speak......logic, taking the wider view and thinking of what's best for the majority... I don't think so 
Surely Bassa would be better off looking at the tax implications of this before insisting.
add to that that the Revenue would then probably view ALL airline staff travel in the UK as a taxable item then you going to have a lot of unhappy people
the lunatic fringe
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Training time required for pilot to attain ATPL :-
2 years
2 years
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However to get to sit in the left hand seat of a 777/747 you are looking at 15 to 20 years flying experience. It has been done in less, but not that often, and the insurers get a little twitchy I believe.
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Just for clarification ...
Staff Travel does attract a tax liability. However, BA pays an agreed sum to the Inland Revenue (or whatever they are called nowadays) to cover.
Another reason to remove it from the strikers - BA is subsidizing our staff travel, don't see why this should apply to people who are damaging the company.
Staff Travel does attract a tax liability. However, BA pays an agreed sum to the Inland Revenue (or whatever they are called nowadays) to cover.
Another reason to remove it from the strikers - BA is subsidizing our staff travel, don't see why this should apply to people who are damaging the company.
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DOH!
For the older ones who may remember, there is a great song by Jefferson Airplane called 'White Rabbit', which tells of Alice and the pills that made her taller or smaller, and her journeys through Wonderland................ Reading the other thread it does sound as if Duncan Holley has found a little bottle of these somewhere, as his postings are getting more like something Lewis Carroll would have penned!
After all this is over, at least he will be unable to influence so many members of the Cult, unless of course Unite give him a job??
After all this is over, at least he will be unable to influence so many members of the Cult, unless of course Unite give him a job??
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I really hope Willie doesn't give in on travel to the strikers. In fact i would be more likely to use BA sooner if i new all the rotten apples were no longer there.
Regarding Bassa/Unite assertion that removing travel from strikers is discrimination and illegal. Why then are they asking for it back (negotiating) when it could be got back for free?
And whilst i dont think they will get much UK support for a legal case of getting it back, they might in Europe..BUT..Given the new government coalitions views on EU beaurocracy and power being taken from the host government to EU..i would be surprised to see..or not..back room machinations to keep UK sweet.
Regarding Bassa/Unite assertion that removing travel from strikers is discrimination and illegal. Why then are they asking for it back (negotiating) when it could be got back for free?
And whilst i dont think they will get much UK support for a legal case of getting it back, they might in Europe..BUT..Given the new government coalitions views on EU beaurocracy and power being taken from the host government to EU..i would be surprised to see..or not..back room machinations to keep UK sweet.
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If, as reported, BA is going to start recruiting new crew onto New Fleet shortly, Unite should start negotiating a settlement ASAP.
WW has said that it doesn't need any agreement with Unite to start New Fleet. Without any agreement with Unite, it has carte blanche to implement New Fleet as it pleases. So it could be adieu to NRT, SIN, HKG etc for current CC.
WW has said that it doesn't need any agreement with Unite to start New Fleet. Without any agreement with Unite, it has carte blanche to implement New Fleet as it pleases. So it could be adieu to NRT, SIN, HKG etc for current CC.
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I'm rather amazed that Mr. Holley's missives are about crews over-indulging, cakes and pouting that he hasn't met Mr. Walsh, rather than serious issues regarding what this strike means for BASSA's members.
His updates have the ring of pre-teen messages about Friday nights party.
I see on the CC forum that we have a poster making the inane comparison between this strike and a court case.
You can "back BA", negotiate, and even litigate in a professional manner. That is quite different from wearing BA's executives photos on your rear-end while screaming at hotels.
His updates have the ring of pre-teen messages about Friday nights party.
I see on the CC forum that we have a poster making the inane comparison between this strike and a court case.
You can "back BA", negotiate, and even litigate in a professional manner. That is quite different from wearing BA's executives photos on your rear-end while screaming at hotels.
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I would like to say thank you to BASSA, as due to the IA BA have have just renewed Mrs. J's gold memember even though it looked like she would drop down to silver.
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Staff Travel explained
"Twenty five per cent of cabin crew lost staff travel in March for going on strike.
The airline warned in January that strikers would face a permanent staff travel ban.
Crew taking part in the latest strike action were given the same warning.
Travel concessions are a non-contractual benefit offered at the company's discretion.
Staff travel was not the reason cabin crew first voted to go on strike. The ballot related to cost saving measures in IFCE. The airline has since addressed all those concerns and reached agreement in principle with Unite but not with its branch, Bassa.
During the negotiations facilitated by the Trades Union Congress (TUC), BA's CEO Willie Walsh agreed to a request from the TUC general secretary Brendan Barber to consider lifting the permanent ban on staff travel for crew who had lost it.
The compromise meant that commuting crew who had taken action would get the use of staff travel for journeys to and from work as soon as an agreement is reached. Other crew would get their concessions back once a deal was fully implemented. There were conditions attached to the offer including the roll back of seniority.
Everyone would get it back on retirement.
The offer included regular monitoring of the deal and its implimentation, with the first review after 12 months.
Willie Walsh said afterwards that he had agreed to the compromise because he felt that many crew had been misled by Bassa.
BA has recently made another significant gesture by keeping the staff travel offer on the table, despite stating it would be withdrawn if Unite went ahead with the current strikes.
Unite want staff travel to be returned immediately and in its current form."
"How does staff travel work?
Travel concessions are a non-contractual benefit provided at the company's discretion
Current and retired staff used more than 60,000 bookable concessions during 09/10, a significant rise since a more flexible policy was introduced in April 2009.
The airline incurs direct costs of putting an additional passenger onto a plane and the costs of the infrastructure that supports staff travel.
Colleagues pay a £10 booking fee to cover some of the costs.
Although strictly a personal tax liability, BA chooses to pick up the tax bill on behalf of both employees and pensioners and settles this with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs every year."
The above is lifted directly from BANews dated 27 May 2010.
The airline warned in January that strikers would face a permanent staff travel ban.
Crew taking part in the latest strike action were given the same warning.
Travel concessions are a non-contractual benefit offered at the company's discretion.
Staff travel was not the reason cabin crew first voted to go on strike. The ballot related to cost saving measures in IFCE. The airline has since addressed all those concerns and reached agreement in principle with Unite but not with its branch, Bassa.
During the negotiations facilitated by the Trades Union Congress (TUC), BA's CEO Willie Walsh agreed to a request from the TUC general secretary Brendan Barber to consider lifting the permanent ban on staff travel for crew who had lost it.
The compromise meant that commuting crew who had taken action would get the use of staff travel for journeys to and from work as soon as an agreement is reached. Other crew would get their concessions back once a deal was fully implemented. There were conditions attached to the offer including the roll back of seniority.
Everyone would get it back on retirement.
The offer included regular monitoring of the deal and its implimentation, with the first review after 12 months.
Willie Walsh said afterwards that he had agreed to the compromise because he felt that many crew had been misled by Bassa.
BA has recently made another significant gesture by keeping the staff travel offer on the table, despite stating it would be withdrawn if Unite went ahead with the current strikes.
Unite want staff travel to be returned immediately and in its current form."
"How does staff travel work?
Travel concessions are a non-contractual benefit provided at the company's discretion
Current and retired staff used more than 60,000 bookable concessions during 09/10, a significant rise since a more flexible policy was introduced in April 2009.
The airline incurs direct costs of putting an additional passenger onto a plane and the costs of the infrastructure that supports staff travel.
Colleagues pay a £10 booking fee to cover some of the costs.
Although strictly a personal tax liability, BA chooses to pick up the tax bill on behalf of both employees and pensioners and settles this with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs every year."
The above is lifted directly from BANews dated 27 May 2010.
Last edited by TruBlu123; 29th May 2010 at 14:02. Reason: typo