BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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I wonder if it's related to various Unite/BASSA representatives mouthing off about this dispute being about staff travel/disciplinaries which obviously weren't the subject of the original ballot?
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LD12986:
As I understand it you cannot bring up new issues on appeal. The appeal must be based upon the same facts and testimony offered in the original case.
The request for documents is interesting and could mean a few things. Is BA looking for a misrepresentation made by Unite/BASSA in the original hearing?
Could be a few things but it certainly shows that Mr. Walsh continues to enjoy the backing of his Board.
As I understand it you cannot bring up new issues on appeal. The appeal must be based upon the same facts and testimony offered in the original case.
The request for documents is interesting and could mean a few things. Is BA looking for a misrepresentation made by Unite/BASSA in the original hearing?
Could be a few things but it certainly shows that Mr. Walsh continues to enjoy the backing of his Board.
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Whatever WW has being doing today, he hasn't had the time to make an appearance in this customer update;
YouTube - A customer update from British Airways - 25 May
YouTube - A customer update from British Airways - 25 May
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F33A
I just wanted to check the amount of BA flights, that are actually operating today, and noticed, that the Heathrow Airport website doesn't list the previously cancelled flights, I only found 2 or 3 cancelled BA flights at all.
Completely erasing flights from the schedule seems a little odd to me, for example: BA965 HAM-LHR is "cancelled" at the HAM website, but not even listed on the LHR website.
Maybe someone with real insight could provide some facts at the end of the day?
Completely erasing flights from the schedule seems a little odd to me, for example: BA965 HAM-LHR is "cancelled" at the HAM website, but not even listed on the LHR website.
Maybe someone with real insight could provide some facts at the end of the day?
As far as i can say, from my previous role, the flights on the LHR BAA website (like the BAA screens) are taken from those submitted as the intended flying schedule to ACL who manage slots.
Because BA worked up a special new schedule for the strikes, the only flights to appear are those which were submitted, not the full schedule which HAM are obv using. In normal cancellations (i.e weather) the schedule has been submitted, and then flights were cancelled, hence they would appear on BAA info boards, with a cancellation message.
If flights are appearing on the BAA info pages Cancelled during the strike, it probably means that the flight was part of the planned strike schedule but has been cancelled since then. However equally, there are some extra flights appearing, which are being added to the planned strike schedule as more crew report than were planned for.
HTH
BAATW
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Duncan Holley
A cc member on their thread answered this question the other day. Said Mr. H can remain until the next election, at which time he cannot stand if he is no longer employed by BA. But until then, he can continue in his position.
As for possible further action by BA in the courts. It appears, that at the heart of this latest move is that Unite have called a strike based on the removal of ST and disciplinary matters which is NOT the original reason for striking - thus "making this one illegal." One for the eagles.
BA tells Unite to prepare for a court challenge over cabin crew dispute - Times Online
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Observations on recent flight!
I flew out to Phoenix on BA289, travelled business as did five over members of my family, disappointed on the service.....not particularly friendly crew, more or less a could not care less attitude, thats of course when we happened to see them during the flight....unfortunately for me something I ate either on the flight or in the club lounge at terminal five upset me (another story)...on the return flight sat upstairs, two male cabin crew one couldnt do enough for you the other could barely serve you, any questions you had about the service was greeted with no comment, and that actually was anything you asked....will I travel BA again, not so sure....I thought I would never say it but the strike has almost ruined them for me!!!!!! thank you to all the BA staff that are trying their best to keep the airline flying. I hope that the airline can one day return to what It once was!!!
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The court case..
I just can't see the courts declaring this strike illegal on the technicality that was the focus of attention last week. Which makes me wonder what BA have got up their sleeve. We can but speculate. Maybe they just want to keep up the pressure on the union.
It might be a long shot but the stakes couldn't be higher for the strikers. OTOH what do BA have to lose - the strike continues, and they pick up a legal bill that is trivial compared to the sort of losses they've been enduring. It's the sort of punt that a board of directors are prepared to take.
The strike has to be for the reasons balloted. There's been a cannon loose on the media deck - DH - and given his official capacity I wouldn't want MY future livelihood resting on whether or not he'd given away a tinsy-winsy bit too much.
It might be a long shot but the stakes couldn't be higher for the strikers. OTOH what do BA have to lose - the strike continues, and they pick up a legal bill that is trivial compared to the sort of losses they've been enduring. It's the sort of punt that a board of directors are prepared to take.
The strike has to be for the reasons balloted. There's been a cannon loose on the media deck - DH - and given his official capacity I wouldn't want MY future livelihood resting on whether or not he'd given away a tinsy-winsy bit too much.
Last edited by oggers; 26th May 2010 at 10:03.
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Having flown with many airlines on long haul flights over recent years I came to the conclusion that BA were now no better than any other. Perhaps when having to reschedule at short notice BA were better at accomodating my request.
My point being that despite the over inflated opinion BA have of themselves, the Brand BA would not be missed if the company folded.
Those who are striking, for what ever todays reason is, should remember that if I have to get to B I will get there whether your company flies me or not.
To those who are still working and to the VCC good luck and I hope you eventually are able kick out the militants who threaten your jobs.
Maybe when this all over and BA remains viable you can get the company back to what it was 10 years ago, the passengers prefered carrier.
My point being that despite the over inflated opinion BA have of themselves, the Brand BA would not be missed if the company folded.
Those who are striking, for what ever todays reason is, should remember that if I have to get to B I will get there whether your company flies me or not.
To those who are still working and to the VCC good luck and I hope you eventually are able kick out the militants who threaten your jobs.
Maybe when this all over and BA remains viable you can get the company back to what it was 10 years ago, the passengers prefered carrier.
I saw a UNITE/BASSA video on You Tube showing strikers waving banners stating, "Negotiation NOT imposition." I wonder if these banners were held in the same hands that were raised at Sandown last year voting for no negotiation.
These poor souls are really confused. How on earth can they be relied on in an on board situation requiring clear thought.
On a seperate point and referring to post #1859 showing a breakdown of Mr Holley's salary. I cannot totally agree with the figures for two reasons. First and according to BASSA'a own website, the current membership stands at 9939 as at 11:00 today and not the 12,000 stated in the post. Second where is the evidence that DH receives 3% of the membership dues?
However, assuming the 3% is correct, the salary for last year now becomes £113,037 made up of £42000 from BA, £12,000 for his office duties and a very nice 9939 x £16.50 per month x 3% = £59037 from BASSA's generous members. It is also stated elsewhere that DH only flew for 20 hours last year.
Now, you may recall that BASSA recently calculated the hourly rate of a pilot operating as CC at £166 per hour. So using BASSA mathematical logic does that mean that Mr Holley is on over £5,566 p.h. Nice work if you can get it!
These poor souls are really confused. How on earth can they be relied on in an on board situation requiring clear thought.
On a seperate point and referring to post #1859 showing a breakdown of Mr Holley's salary. I cannot totally agree with the figures for two reasons. First and according to BASSA'a own website, the current membership stands at 9939 as at 11:00 today and not the 12,000 stated in the post. Second where is the evidence that DH receives 3% of the membership dues?
However, assuming the 3% is correct, the salary for last year now becomes £113,037 made up of £42000 from BA, £12,000 for his office duties and a very nice 9939 x £16.50 per month x 3% = £59037 from BASSA's generous members. It is also stated elsewhere that DH only flew for 20 hours last year.
Now, you may recall that BASSA recently calculated the hourly rate of a pilot operating as CC at £166 per hour. So using BASSA mathematical logic does that mean that Mr Holley is on over £5,566 p.h. Nice work if you can get it!
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So far I've avoided commenting on the BA cabin crew strike. But over on the CC strike thread one of the BASSA supporters MissM posted this regarding the current BA "offer" to UNITE:
It's hard to know where to start in answering someone who is so utterly divorced from reality as this, but I'll have a go.
Firstly, you would need to consult a much higher power than even the BA CEO to obtain any guarantees about your career. In 20 years in my industry I've been made redundant once, taken voluntary redundancy once, had one employer taken over and spent some time unemployed. And that is by no means unusual amongst my peers. This is the nature of business in 2010.
Even in the aviation industry, you should ask employees of Pan Am or Sabena or Swiss or any number of other "won't ever fail" airlines over the years about "guarantees" about their career.
Secondly, what do you think it is that pays for your career ? Could it be something to do with those passengers who (or whose employers) buy tickets to fly on your airline ?
Over the last 5 years my company and its clients have spent nearly £60000 for me to travel on British Airways flights. Through all the spin it's hard to know how many cabin crew annual salaries this equates to but from the figures I've seen I'm guessing maybe one cabin service director, or a couple of more junior crew.
Over the last few months my travel with BA has dwindled to almost none due to:
- avoiding BA because of threatened and actual industrial action
- avoiding BA because of sour-faced cabin service on some previous flights (my return from honeymoon being the particular lowlight last year
)
- flying less because of the economic downturn
- my company and its clients no longer recommend BA
All of which means £60000 more won't be coming BA's way from my company and clients' direction over the next five years.
Now it's clear that my situation is very common (indeed Virgin are reporting huge growth in premium customers joining their FF club in recent months).
So.... striking BA cabin crew: where is your future salary going to come from ?
Your choices are:
- modest cuts in how much BA spends on its cabin crew in line with the cuts the rest of the company have already accepted
AND
- improving your service to customers so that all of those who are already choosing your competitors return to BA
OR
- the company goes bust.
It's your call.
13Alpha
I will never accept the proposal as it is today as there are no guarantees regarding my career.
Firstly, you would need to consult a much higher power than even the BA CEO to obtain any guarantees about your career. In 20 years in my industry I've been made redundant once, taken voluntary redundancy once, had one employer taken over and spent some time unemployed. And that is by no means unusual amongst my peers. This is the nature of business in 2010.
Even in the aviation industry, you should ask employees of Pan Am or Sabena or Swiss or any number of other "won't ever fail" airlines over the years about "guarantees" about their career.
Secondly, what do you think it is that pays for your career ? Could it be something to do with those passengers who (or whose employers) buy tickets to fly on your airline ?
Over the last 5 years my company and its clients have spent nearly £60000 for me to travel on British Airways flights. Through all the spin it's hard to know how many cabin crew annual salaries this equates to but from the figures I've seen I'm guessing maybe one cabin service director, or a couple of more junior crew.
Over the last few months my travel with BA has dwindled to almost none due to:
- avoiding BA because of threatened and actual industrial action
- avoiding BA because of sour-faced cabin service on some previous flights (my return from honeymoon being the particular lowlight last year
)- flying less because of the economic downturn
- my company and its clients no longer recommend BA
All of which means £60000 more won't be coming BA's way from my company and clients' direction over the next five years.
Now it's clear that my situation is very common (indeed Virgin are reporting huge growth in premium customers joining their FF club in recent months).
So.... striking BA cabin crew: where is your future salary going to come from ?
Your choices are:
- modest cuts in how much BA spends on its cabin crew in line with the cuts the rest of the company have already accepted
AND
- improving your service to customers so that all of those who are already choosing your competitors return to BA
OR
- the company goes bust.
It's your call.
13Alpha
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I wonder if these banners were held in the same hands that were raised at Sandown last year voting for no negotiation.
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Flying for the next strike ... from the BA Intranet
May 30-June 3 schedule
We will be increasing our flying schedule during Unite’s threatened five day strike (May 30, 31 and June 1, 2, 3) after more cabin crew than expected decided to work as normal during this week’s industrial action.
Our Heathrow longhaul schedule will be increased to more than 70 per cent of flights (up from more than 60 per cent this week). Our Heathrow shorthaul schedule will increase to more than 55 per cent of flights (up from more than 50 per cent this week). We will continue to fly to every shorthaul destination on our network.
Services from Gatwick and London City airports will continue to operate as normal.
At this stage we expect to fly more than 75 per cent of customers who hold a booking between May 30 and June 3. This equates to around 65,000 customers flying each day. Many thousands more will be able to use seats we have secured on more than 50 other airlines to reach their destination, if they still wish to travel or be rebooked onto an alternative BA flight departing within the next 355 days. Refunds are also available for customers whose flights have been cancelled.
May 30-June 3 schedule
We will be increasing our flying schedule during Unite’s threatened five day strike (May 30, 31 and June 1, 2, 3) after more cabin crew than expected decided to work as normal during this week’s industrial action.
Our Heathrow longhaul schedule will be increased to more than 70 per cent of flights (up from more than 60 per cent this week). Our Heathrow shorthaul schedule will increase to more than 55 per cent of flights (up from more than 50 per cent this week). We will continue to fly to every shorthaul destination on our network.
Services from Gatwick and London City airports will continue to operate as normal.
At this stage we expect to fly more than 75 per cent of customers who hold a booking between May 30 and June 3. This equates to around 65,000 customers flying each day. Many thousands more will be able to use seats we have secured on more than 50 other airlines to reach their destination, if they still wish to travel or be rebooked onto an alternative BA flight departing within the next 355 days. Refunds are also available for customers whose flights have been cancelled.
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Tigger4me
Shame on you, you appear to deliberately juxtapose two completely separate things, a person's ability to understand industrial relations and their understanding and ability to fulfil their function as a responsible member of staff in a crisis situation by stating
By all means criticise those who are choosing their own particular stance in this dispute but DO NOT go on to use the indecision you perceive in this scenario to question their abilities. It undermines everything you subsequently put forward.
How on earth can they be relied on in an on board situation requiring clear thought.
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Half empty flights?
The union side claims those flights that take off are half empty? Well three friends should be joining me in Vienna next week for a prepaid holiday weve been very nervous about. When the new schedule came out, their evening flight from LHR was one of those cancelled. One of them managed to re-book on the afternoon flight, but the second one found it was already full, and is on the morning flight. I'm a bit worried about the third one.
Anyway I have ordered them to bring choccies for their cabin crew
Thanks to all crew who are keeping flying.
Anyway I have ordered them to bring choccies for their cabin crew
Thanks to all crew who are keeping flying.
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From the other thread... It seems people have been throwing water bombs and eggs at the open top bus BASSA are using to parade the militants around.
Could this be other BASSAitants hoping to get press sympathy?
By the way, it's taken a while but the main CC thread is today now more than double the number of pages on this thread. Maybe we've not made the strikers welcome enough or perhaps their arguments cannot stand up to scrutiny?
I, for one, miss them.
Could this be other BASSAitants hoping to get press sympathy?
By the way, it's taken a while but the main CC thread is today now more than double the number of pages on this thread. Maybe we've not made the strikers welcome enough or perhaps their arguments cannot stand up to scrutiny?
I, for one, miss them.
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Another ballot looms
"We will be holding another ballot on staff travel and the disciplinaries," said Simpson.
Woodley added that Unite was duty bound to hold another poll because a window of protection for striking crew, mandated by trade union legislation, expires on June 10 and exposes any staff who walk out to the threat of dismissal if they are not protected by a ballot.
"We have got no choice. We have got to give our people legal protection. We cannot take the chance that this gaffer will be sacking people," said Woodley.
Unite, buoyed by the 81% and 92% majorities for recent cabin crew strike ballots, believes a new poll will meet with similar success.
Woodley added that Unite was duty bound to hold another poll because a window of protection for striking crew, mandated by trade union legislation, expires on June 10 and exposes any staff who walk out to the threat of dismissal if they are not protected by a ballot.
"We have got no choice. We have got to give our people legal protection. We cannot take the chance that this gaffer will be sacking people," said Woodley.
Unite, buoyed by the 81% and 92% majorities for recent cabin crew strike ballots, believes a new poll will meet with similar success.
I wonder what majority they will get this time, and whether they can perform a legal ballot. Or perhaps this is Woodley's way out by separating the travel issue from the business ones?
Last edited by plane speak; 26th May 2010 at 20:25.