BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
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Apropo of Nothing
There have been a few calls in the past few days from new posters, typically <3 posts trolls, demanding that the PCCC either state how many members they have and/or submit their identities for general information.
Given that the union bullyboys are running out of targets to threaten, and taking into account the antics they have got up to so far, I would think that the worst thing that the PCCC can do at this precise moment in time, is to accede to these requests/demands. Especially as they appear to be normal working staff, you can imagine the situation developing on a LH, where they are mixed with striking/militant staff.
I would suggest that the details are kept under wraps for now, until BASSA has lost its ability to represent BA staff, the disciplinaries have been finished, the strikers and militants have been sacked, at least by then most of the above will be too busy worrying about receiving some income, rather than causing ongoing trouble, and of course have lost their airside I/D's - hopefully none of the above are that far distant.
Diplome - Just to clear the yard arm - none of the above is in response to your post! I would'nt dare!!
Given that the union bullyboys are running out of targets to threaten, and taking into account the antics they have got up to so far, I would think that the worst thing that the PCCC can do at this precise moment in time, is to accede to these requests/demands. Especially as they appear to be normal working staff, you can imagine the situation developing on a LH, where they are mixed with striking/militant staff.
I would suggest that the details are kept under wraps for now, until BASSA has lost its ability to represent BA staff, the disciplinaries have been finished, the strikers and militants have been sacked, at least by then most of the above will be too busy worrying about receiving some income, rather than causing ongoing trouble, and of course have lost their airside I/D's - hopefully none of the above are that far distant.
Diplome - Just to clear the yard arm - none of the above is in response to your post! I would'nt dare!!
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Judging by the numbers reporting for duty, this strike could well fizzle out over the next few days. With today's public sector cuts announcements, the Unite leadership also now have bigger fish to fry.
If this doesn't end with some form of face-saving get out for BASSA, I wonder if things will turn ugly when the militants realise the game is up.
If this doesn't end with some form of face-saving get out for BASSA, I wonder if things will turn ugly when the militants realise the game is up.
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The Power Struggle is Over!!
Woodley's & Simpson's failure to meet and address their loyal striking staff at Bedfont at their planned 14:00 hrs slot this afternoon was them essentially throwing in the towel.
Interesting that in the end the two Unite Co-General Secretaries and the BASSA leaders including their Branch Secretary Holley, et.al., ended-up self-combusting by blaming and fighting each other.
We now see how the end game including the capitulation by the loosers and clean-up by the victors gets to play out.
Interesting that in the end the two Unite Co-General Secretaries and the BASSA leaders including their Branch Secretary Holley, et.al., ended-up self-combusting by blaming and fighting each other.
We now see how the end game including the capitulation by the loosers and clean-up by the victors gets to play out.
Last edited by Phil Rigg; 24th May 2010 at 23:22.
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Facesaving
I would suggest that it has been constant 'face saving' for both BASSA and BA managment for the last 30 years, that has bought about the situation today whereby a union runs a major airline and controls approx 30,000 staff - Now for once there is a CEO who has the cojones to stand up and say - Enough - No More.
If the spoilt brat screams - let it scream - don't reward it with sweets and start the cycle all over again - throw it away with the bathwater!!
If the spoilt brat screams - let it scream - don't reward it with sweets and start the cycle all over again - throw it away with the bathwater!!
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Union has been destroyed by British Airways, admits top official - Times Online
Willie Walsh, the chief executive of British Airways, has broken his cabin crew union and will win the dispute, a prominent official conceded yesterday as stewards began a 15-day strike over jobs and working conditions.
The comments, from a member of the nine-strong leadership of the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (BASSA), came as tensions mounted over the handling of the dispute by the cabin crew section’s parent union, Unite.
Tony Woodley was, according to sources close to the leadership, livid with his co-general secretary, Derek Simpson, for posting details of failed negotiations with the BA boss on his Twitter account.
The comments, from a member of the nine-strong leadership of the British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (BASSA), came as tensions mounted over the handling of the dispute by the cabin crew section’s parent union, Unite.
Tony Woodley was, according to sources close to the leadership, livid with his co-general secretary, Derek Simpson, for posting details of failed negotiations with the BA boss on his Twitter account.
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Union managers have undermined cabin crew and boosted BA’s hand - Times Online
It was supposed to have been a winter of discontent. What we have is a summer of discomfort for British Airways passengers as the one rumbling dispute of the past six months explodes into a head-on clash that threatens to define industrial relations in the first weeks of the post-Labour economy.
What is at issue at BA is no longer about cuts in cabin crew to enable the airline to withstand two years of losses of more than £900 million. It is not even about individual travel perks. Nor is it about breaking the union. It is about breaking the management of Bassa, the sub-branch of the union at the heart of the dispute, representing 10,000 stewards and stewardesses.
Bassa’s leadership has forced Tony Woodley, the general secretary of Unite, the parent union, into a negotiating stance that he is struggling to justify. That is a weakness at the head of a super-union whose shortcomings are magnified by having two ageing general secretaries close to retirement. And that weakness is Willie Walsh’s strongest hand and one that has led a previously uncertain BA chief executive into a hardline stance of no surrender.
What is at issue at BA is no longer about cuts in cabin crew to enable the airline to withstand two years of losses of more than £900 million. It is not even about individual travel perks. Nor is it about breaking the union. It is about breaking the management of Bassa, the sub-branch of the union at the heart of the dispute, representing 10,000 stewards and stewardesses.
Bassa’s leadership has forced Tony Woodley, the general secretary of Unite, the parent union, into a negotiating stance that he is struggling to justify. That is a weakness at the head of a super-union whose shortcomings are magnified by having two ageing general secretaries close to retirement. And that weakness is Willie Walsh’s strongest hand and one that has led a previously uncertain BA chief executive into a hardline stance of no surrender.
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BASSA Battle Hymn
New BASSA battle hymn - think US Marines
From the Hatton Cross roundabout, to the fields of Bedfont FC, we will fight our IA battles (except if it's too hot, the weather is too good or it's a Monday)
Kind of get's you right here...
TB
From the Hatton Cross roundabout, to the fields of Bedfont FC, we will fight our IA battles (except if it's too hot, the weather is too good or it's a Monday)
Kind of get's you right here...
TB
Paxing All Over The World
Entaxei
Only because the Board of Management have backed him to do it. Indeed, it appears that they hired him specifically to do it. He could not have done this alone. If earlier Boards had not wanted a quiet life, then it would have happened earlier. Just as it did to Stevedores, Print Workers and the rest, the world had changed in their favour and then it changed again.
77
You make it sound like the death knell of the entire UK aviation fleet rests on the doubling of APD? The global airline biz has increased because:
Then, just when we thought it was going to get better and better ... the recesssion arrived and everything changed. We may yet have a Depression or Stagflation.
If people do not have a job, or have lost their house, or are stuggling to support their family then APD is going to be the leat of their worries. YES, I do realise what it might mean to a family of four on a lh holiday but, just maybe, folks will plan now in the way in which they did not in the last 20 years.
Now for once there is a CEO who has the cojones to stand up and say - Enough - No More.
77
It was in the press in the last few days. APD to rise (double ?? )
[SNIP]
For the few who will pay no tax, many more will not be able to travel by air on holiday and hence many in the aviation industry will lose their jobs.
You can of course travel by AMS,CDG, FRA etc and pay less tax but that doesn't help those employed in the aviation industry in the UK. i.e. those trying to keep their airline in business not destroy it.
[SNIP]
For the few who will pay no tax, many more will not be able to travel by air on holiday and hence many in the aviation industry will lose their jobs.
You can of course travel by AMS,CDG, FRA etc and pay less tax but that doesn't help those employed in the aviation industry in the UK. i.e. those trying to keep their airline in business not destroy it.
- Deregulation of old duopoly agreements
- new entrants lowered prices
- new aircraft cheaper to operate
- new runways on small islands and unexpected places
- new ways of pricing and making money out of air travel - both by the carriers and the airport companies
Then, just when we thought it was going to get better and better ... the recesssion arrived and everything changed. We may yet have a Depression or Stagflation.
If people do not have a job, or have lost their house, or are stuggling to support their family then APD is going to be the leat of their worries. YES, I do realise what it might mean to a family of four on a lh holiday but, just maybe, folks will plan now in the way in which they did not in the last 20 years.
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BASSA
Unfortunately this has now ended up as a band of militants trying to hold up everyone to ransom. they need to get in the real world and smell the coffee -- trouble is they are dragging innocent people with them! I feel sorry for the people who are following this lost cause and the effects upon them, see the light you sheep and divorce yourselves from these fools.
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ChicoG
Yeah, well he's got a job at BA and you haven't, you moron.
He is behaving as 'secretary' of BASSA and still 'leading' from the front but as he is not now one of them - it is all false. In other words he CANNOT speak for them. Mind you BASSA has not negotiated or met BA for over a year! Now that is quite something.
However, he is reported as saying in The Times, that it is all over, "the union is broken."
Now, perhaps things can get back to where BA should be.
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I see that the BBC have picked up on that blatant lie that the Pilots would be angry if the ST was returned......they did however also print the statement from BALPA denying this. Strange.
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Entaxei:
I certainly understand and appreciate your comments regarding the PCCC and I'm fully aware that it is very easy for individuals to say "Its time to come out" when we're sitting safely in front of our computer screen and not exposed to the likes of people like Mr. Holley, who will endorse the use of "guerilla tactics" and fools such as those that disrupted the negotiations.
However, it is obvious that BASSA is weakened and having a reasonable and professional group for disillusioned Cabin Crew to look for leadership and change would be a positive and could possibly provide significant momentum for the PCCC.
A shame that we have to take into consideration individuals safety from the same groups who speak of "bullies".
I certainly understand and appreciate your comments regarding the PCCC and I'm fully aware that it is very easy for individuals to say "Its time to come out" when we're sitting safely in front of our computer screen and not exposed to the likes of people like Mr. Holley, who will endorse the use of "guerilla tactics" and fools such as those that disrupted the negotiations.
However, it is obvious that BASSA is weakened and having a reasonable and professional group for disillusioned Cabin Crew to look for leadership and change would be a positive and could possibly provide significant momentum for the PCCC.
A shame that we have to take into consideration individuals safety from the same groups who speak of "bullies".
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Actually, you are wrong. Holley is no longer employed by BA, he was sacked and his use of office facilities for union work were removed by BA.
He is behaving as 'secretary' of BASSA and still 'leading' from the front but as he is not now one of them - it is all false. In other words he CANNOT speak for them. Mind you BASSA has not negotiated or met BA for over a year! Now that is quite something.
However, he is reported as saying in The Times, that it is all over, "the union is broken."
Now, perhaps things can get back to where BA should be.
He is behaving as 'secretary' of BASSA and still 'leading' from the front but as he is not now one of them - it is all false. In other words he CANNOT speak for them. Mind you BASSA has not negotiated or met BA for over a year! Now that is quite something.
However, he is reported as saying in The Times, that it is all over, "the union is broken."
Now, perhaps things can get back to where BA should be.
Regards,
G-BPED
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RTR. I believe that what ChicoG was referring to by his comment was the fact that Walsh was the person who had the job at BA.
And let's all remember Duncan H. was fired because he was told to turn up to work and chose to bunk off. Hmmm. I'll tell my boss I'm not coming in tomorrow and that he should still pay me. See how that one goes
Added:
Even more hilariously, our Duncan doesn't like Willie, and wants him to step out of the negotiations.
Oh dear Duncan, you really are rather stupid, aren't you?
Both sources within Unite and senior figures within its hardline branch that specifically represents BA’s 12,000 cabin crew, have pinpointed Mr Williams as a far more emollient figure than Mr Walsh. They believe the dispute - which has increasingly centred on the personalities of the senior figures involved - could be brought to a swift halt if he were allowed to lead negotiations, rather than Mr Walsh.
"Without Walsh a deal would be much easier to pick up because of the trust involved," said Duncan Holley branch secretary of British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (Bassa), which represents the airline’s cabin crew.
"Keith Williams is well respected and there is a feeling within the community that we could forge a much better relationship with him. If Keith came to use with a deal, we would be much more likely to accept it."
"Without Walsh a deal would be much easier to pick up because of the trust involved," said Duncan Holley branch secretary of British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association (Bassa), which represents the airline’s cabin crew.
"Keith Williams is well respected and there is a feeling within the community that we could forge a much better relationship with him. If Keith came to use with a deal, we would be much more likely to accept it."
Get over it you sad git.
And a bit of Unite spin:
The cabin crew branch of Unite, Bassa, said there was a different atmosphere among strikers compared with the last series of walkouts in March.
"The atmosphere is not as frenetic and intense as last time. People seem to be more determined and they have a quiet resolve," said one official.
"The atmosphere is not as frenetic and intense as last time. People seem to be more determined and they have a quiet resolve," said one official.
(Note: Unite is also holding its annual conference next week, in Manchester. )
Edit: RicoG, can you please refrain from calling people morons and gits? Its not nice and against the rules.
Last edited by ChicoG; 25th May 2010 at 09:17.
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"Without Walsh a deal would be much easier to pick up because of the trust involved"
And England would lift the World Cup if they were just allowed to choose who they played against. 
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DH earns in total more than most longhaul captains
Actually, you are wrong. Holley is no longer employed by BA, he was sacked and his use of office facilities for union work were removed by BA.
He is behaving as 'secretary' of BASSA and still 'leading' from the front but as he is not now one of them - it is all false. In other words he CANNOT speak for them. Mind you BASSA has not negotiated or met BA for over a year! Now that is quite something.
However, he is reported as saying in The Times, that it is all over, "the union is broken."
Now, perhaps things can get back to where BA should be.
He is behaving as 'secretary' of BASSA and still 'leading' from the front but as he is not now one of them - it is all false. In other words he CANNOT speak for them. Mind you BASSA has not negotiated or met BA for over a year! Now that is quite something.
However, he is reported as saying in The Times, that it is all over, "the union is broken."
Now, perhaps things can get back to where BA should be.
From the Times Online
mark jones wrote:
As a long serving worker with BA, please dont think many of us are like Bassa's general secretary Duncan Holley. We all known this individual for too long, and he has looked after himself big time. Apart from a basic salary from BA ( until 2 weeks ago!) of 42000, he has taken between 12-15k for 'office duties' ( As he flies just 4-5 times/year.) But the really big earner that the crew DONT know about is that he is entitled and still takes 3% of their monthly contibutions into his back pocket. 12000members x £16.50/month = 6k/month for him alone. Oh yes he earns in total more than most longhaul captains!! He has never divulged this to any of the members. Wonder why? Another union rep playing poor me when the oppisite is true. He has caused a lot of problems for too long. Good riddunce
May 25, 2010 9:49 AM BST
As a long serving worker with BA, please dont think many of us are like Bassa's general secretary Duncan Holley. We all known this individual for too long, and he has looked after himself big time. Apart from a basic salary from BA ( until 2 weeks ago!) of 42000, he has taken between 12-15k for 'office duties' ( As he flies just 4-5 times/year.) But the really big earner that the crew DONT know about is that he is entitled and still takes 3% of their monthly contibutions into his back pocket. 12000members x £16.50/month = 6k/month for him alone. Oh yes he earns in total more than most longhaul captains!! He has never divulged this to any of the members. Wonder why? Another union rep playing poor me when the oppisite is true. He has caused a lot of problems for too long. Good riddunce
May 25, 2010 9:49 AM BST
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Oneye:
As per your request.
Ladies and gentlemen, I am in no way connected with aviation, whether operator or client.
I have observed these threads from the very beginning, both here and on the cabincrew forum, but finally, have become so inscenced(sp) with the 'one cell' diatribes and utter foolishness that I have read/witnessed, that I finally need to ask one or two fundamental questions.
The catalyst for this was listenning to 'linda', lower case on purpose, on the 'fascinating' Vine programme on radio 2 this day.
Setting aside the BBC left bias, this woman declared that she had to disguise here identity, by using a false name. She is a BASSA member and a strike advocate and was bleating about bullying and intimidation, which left me momenterily speechless, unusual for me. To date, I have not heard one syllable from the non strikers, defending their position.
There have been a few non-strikers who have appeared in interviews and on different call-in programs. Unfortunately they have no organized way to speak for themselves and I agree, it does make for a frustrating situation when you realize that the militant strikers are the minority.
Non-strikers should have a greater voice.
My points/ questions are as follows and I would really appreciate some sensible answers from both sides of the arguement.
Why has it not yet been made plain/obvious, the reasons behind the progenitor for this strike in the media? To wit, the imposition of the reduction of ONE crew member on a flight, remembering that Bassa have refused to negotiate for around 18 months.
Why is it that the media has not actually put the facts straight, that the bullying and intimadation has originated from militant Bassa members?
I guess that will do for now, but my opinion currently is, that it is high time that the PCCC came out of the woodwork and laid claim to the high ground and provided the media with some hard 'accurate' facts about the Bassa CSD's.
I have stated previously that perhaps it is time for the PCCC to step forward. Other posters have put forth some very reasonable reasons why they disagree with my proposal.
Whether PCCC decide now is the time or not I believe that BA could do a better job of getting the message out that they are supported by the VAST majority of their workers, including Cabin Crew.
BA Cabin Crew is certainly more than the individuals that we see screaming outside of hotels, wearing mens undergarments with Mr. Walsh's image on the seat or having their children hold signs with Mr. Walsh's eyes painted red. It would be good for BA and those individuals who are keeping the flag flying if there was a positive brand being seen by the public.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
You're welcome.
As per your request.
Ladies and gentlemen, I am in no way connected with aviation, whether operator or client.
I have observed these threads from the very beginning, both here and on the cabincrew forum, but finally, have become so inscenced(sp) with the 'one cell' diatribes and utter foolishness that I have read/witnessed, that I finally need to ask one or two fundamental questions.
The catalyst for this was listenning to 'linda', lower case on purpose, on the 'fascinating' Vine programme on radio 2 this day.
Setting aside the BBC left bias, this woman declared that she had to disguise here identity, by using a false name. She is a BASSA member and a strike advocate and was bleating about bullying and intimidation, which left me momenterily speechless, unusual for me. To date, I have not heard one syllable from the non strikers, defending their position.
There have been a few non-strikers who have appeared in interviews and on different call-in programs. Unfortunately they have no organized way to speak for themselves and I agree, it does make for a frustrating situation when you realize that the militant strikers are the minority.
Non-strikers should have a greater voice.
My points/ questions are as follows and I would really appreciate some sensible answers from both sides of the arguement.
Why has it not yet been made plain/obvious, the reasons behind the progenitor for this strike in the media? To wit, the imposition of the reduction of ONE crew member on a flight, remembering that Bassa have refused to negotiate for around 18 months.
Why is it that the media has not actually put the facts straight, that the bullying and intimadation has originated from militant Bassa members?
I guess that will do for now, but my opinion currently is, that it is high time that the PCCC came out of the woodwork and laid claim to the high ground and provided the media with some hard 'accurate' facts about the Bassa CSD's.
I have stated previously that perhaps it is time for the PCCC to step forward. Other posters have put forth some very reasonable reasons why they disagree with my proposal.
Whether PCCC decide now is the time or not I believe that BA could do a better job of getting the message out that they are supported by the VAST majority of their workers, including Cabin Crew.
BA Cabin Crew is certainly more than the individuals that we see screaming outside of hotels, wearing mens undergarments with Mr. Walsh's image on the seat or having their children hold signs with Mr. Walsh's eyes painted red. It would be good for BA and those individuals who are keeping the flag flying if there was a positive brand being seen by the public.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
You're welcome.