BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 82
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When are the militant folks going to wake UP?
Preferably when outside the job centre, alongside the disciplined and sacked and those without ST to get to work (who were brainless enough to go on strike despite being so vulnerable!!).
This will leave the rest of CC without any form of agreed union representation, (as whom can BA trust to negotiate with). Probably therefore looking at a new standard form of CC employment contract issued direct by BA, under which ALL of the crazy old provisions have been removed and replaced with new, simplified and better rates covering the exceptional situations. Issued by BA because this current situation cannot be allowed to go any further and backed by the majority of all other staff, who wish to continue to have a job to go to. Its getting to "make your mind up time"!!!
This will leave the rest of CC without any form of agreed union representation, (as whom can BA trust to negotiate with). Probably therefore looking at a new standard form of CC employment contract issued direct by BA, under which ALL of the crazy old provisions have been removed and replaced with new, simplified and better rates covering the exceptional situations. Issued by BA because this current situation cannot be allowed to go any further and backed by the majority of all other staff, who wish to continue to have a job to go to. Its getting to "make your mind up time"!!!
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When reading commentary from Mr. Holley its important to remember this:
Mr. Holley has money issues at stake that have nothing to do with pilots, but have everything to do with his wish to continue to draw a BA salary while NOT working at BA's business.
He may be feeling a tad nervous about his personal finances at the moment as I don't think BASSA's performance will have inspired Unite to rescue any BASSA casualties arising from this IA.
Yet although he joined banner-waving stewardesses outside Heathrow, the pinkjacketed militant is a much less familiar face on many of their flights.
For the cabin services director has clocked up fewer than 20 hours flying time in the past 18 months - despite drawing an annual salary of at least £50,000 from his BA and union work.
With a £465,000 home in the Hampshire countryside, it seems Mr Holley must be doing something right. But pushing a trolley along an aircraft aisle does not seem to be it.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259684/BA-Unite-strikes-Willie-Walsh-vows-win-war-attrition.html#ixzz0m7mCLaTw
For the cabin services director has clocked up fewer than 20 hours flying time in the past 18 months - despite drawing an annual salary of at least £50,000 from his BA and union work.
With a £465,000 home in the Hampshire countryside, it seems Mr Holley must be doing something right. But pushing a trolley along an aircraft aisle does not seem to be it.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1259684/BA-Unite-strikes-Willie-Walsh-vows-win-war-attrition.html#ixzz0m7mCLaTw
Mr. Holley has money issues at stake that have nothing to do with pilots, but have everything to do with his wish to continue to draw a BA salary while NOT working at BA's business.
He may be feeling a tad nervous about his personal finances at the moment as I don't think BASSA's performance will have inspired Unite to rescue any BASSA casualties arising from this IA.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cardiff
Age: 62
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The market rate is determined by the laws of supply and demand and an individuals point on a scale should be determined by a combination of merit and responsibility. The days of just earning more for having been there a long time have long since gone in the real world.
I can however understand with fligh crew why the airline might be prepared to pay for experience.
It just seems to me that this whole dispute is based on a vastly over stated view of the importance of the cc within the overall team. Yes they clearly have a an important role but historically the union has exploited the situation and bullied weak management into ever more unaffordable deals. Also from what i have heard BA have been more than fair with the offers put on the table.
The reecent news about BASSA refusing to co-operate with the re-patriation flights says so much - surely the reaction from BA on this must tell thinking people on the prospects of BASSA winning any ongoing IA.
I can however understand with fligh crew why the airline might be prepared to pay for experience.
It just seems to me that this whole dispute is based on a vastly over stated view of the importance of the cc within the overall team. Yes they clearly have a an important role but historically the union has exploited the situation and bullied weak management into ever more unaffordable deals. Also from what i have heard BA have been more than fair with the offers put on the table.
The reecent news about BASSA refusing to co-operate with the re-patriation flights says so much - surely the reaction from BA on this must tell thinking people on the prospects of BASSA winning any ongoing IA.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dubai
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Resolution of dispute
From what I am reading over the last week and the new offer, the resolution, from BASSA's perspective to this IA, is not about CC, Imposition or New Fleet - it's about re-instatement of staff travel with seniority and cessation of disiplinary's for BASSA reps.
How well represented do you strike warriors feel now?
You've been pawns played by not very clever people and you, not they, will be paying the price.
How well represented do you strike warriors feel now?
You've been pawns played by not very clever people and you, not they, will be paying the price.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
British Airways cabin crew are set to take part in an online consultative ballot over whether to back a peace deal in the dispute or to push for further strike action, it has been reported.
12,000 staff affiliated to the Unite union will be able to fill in the web ballot when it opens for five days from Tuesday (April 27). They will have a straight choice whether to back a deal proposed by the airline or to move to announce further strike dates.
An e-mail sent to members by Bassa, the branch of Unite that includes British Airways crew, "It is our intention to seek your views in the form of an online ballot, which will run for a period of five days. You will then either choose to accept the deal or give notice for further strike dates."
The details of the deal have not been made public, but significant progress was said to have been made in the latest talks between management and joint general secretary of Unite, Tony Woodley. However, in order to recommend the deal to its members, the union wants reassurances on the treatment of staff who had their perks removed, or faced individual disciplinary action, for taking part in the strike. There are around 50 staff facing such disciplinary cases and the deal could yet founder if management do not offer these reassurances.
A BA spokesman said: “We continue to have conversations with Unite but have received no official communication from Bassa in regard to any ballot. We have said for several weeks that it is time to put this dispute behind us.”
12,000 staff affiliated to the Unite union will be able to fill in the web ballot when it opens for five days from Tuesday (April 27). They will have a straight choice whether to back a deal proposed by the airline or to move to announce further strike dates.
An e-mail sent to members by Bassa, the branch of Unite that includes British Airways crew, "It is our intention to seek your views in the form of an online ballot, which will run for a period of five days. You will then either choose to accept the deal or give notice for further strike dates."
The details of the deal have not been made public, but significant progress was said to have been made in the latest talks between management and joint general secretary of Unite, Tony Woodley. However, in order to recommend the deal to its members, the union wants reassurances on the treatment of staff who had their perks removed, or faced individual disciplinary action, for taking part in the strike. There are around 50 staff facing such disciplinary cases and the deal could yet founder if management do not offer these reassurances.
A BA spokesman said: “We continue to have conversations with Unite but have received no official communication from Bassa in regard to any ballot. We have said for several weeks that it is time to put this dispute behind us.”
UTTER GARBAGE.
Otherwise several thousand would be facing disciplinary action.
They are facing disciplinary action for a number of reasons, and there is a legitimate process in place to deal with this. This is just more BASSA blackmail.
Well
them, Willie.
Otherwise several thousand would be facing disciplinary action.
On another note, (and assuming the media reports are accurate) how can Duncan Holley only fly 18 hours in 18 months and Lizanne Malone 18 hours fewer than that, yet still be employed by BA?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Basil:
Its rather frustrating because its always more pleasurable when there is a diversity of ideas, etc., on a forum, but it just seems difficult for some to believe that the Moderators here mean what they say and participants will be bound by their rules.
If TightSlot decides that in order to post on this forum we are required to send in a photo of ourselves balancing a pie on top of our heads then, like it or not, if I want to participate, I'd better get out my camera and start baking
Thankfully, they are much more reasonable than that.
Mariner9, as I understand it, and as usual anyone correct me if I'm wrong, Ms. Malone is on leave due to health issues and regarding Holley in the past BA has allowed BASSA Reps to perform their Union duties while on BA time. That policy has now changed.
It seems obvious given Mr. Holley's work record that there is a good chance this generous position by BA was being abused by BASSA.
Its rather frustrating because its always more pleasurable when there is a diversity of ideas, etc., on a forum, but it just seems difficult for some to believe that the Moderators here mean what they say and participants will be bound by their rules.
If TightSlot decides that in order to post on this forum we are required to send in a photo of ourselves balancing a pie on top of our heads then, like it or not, if I want to participate, I'd better get out my camera and start baking
Thankfully, they are much more reasonable than that.
Mariner9, as I understand it, and as usual anyone correct me if I'm wrong, Ms. Malone is on leave due to health issues and regarding Holley in the past BA has allowed BASSA Reps to perform their Union duties while on BA time. That policy has now changed.
It seems obvious given Mr. Holley's work record that there is a good chance this generous position by BA was being abused by BASSA.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Snas:
As a passenger I certainly would be uncomfortable having him on crew.
For the non-militant Cabin Crew it may be less than a joyous experience. It must be very frustrating for Crew that want to truly excel to work alongside those that believe the bare minimum is almost too much.
It is interesting that Mr. Holley and BASSA are withholding the offer from their members for this length of time. Surely they realize that the more time their members have to reasonably examine and debate the contents the more capable they will be of making an informed decision.
I'm feeling some sympathy for Unite in this situation. My husband's business has Unite members and their representatives have never behaved like BASSA's representatives. Will have to ask them over a glass of wine some time what their thoughts are about BASSA's leadership through this scenario. They probably have some worthy insight.
As a passenger I certainly would be uncomfortable having him on crew.
For the non-militant Cabin Crew it may be less than a joyous experience. It must be very frustrating for Crew that want to truly excel to work alongside those that believe the bare minimum is almost too much.
It is interesting that Mr. Holley and BASSA are withholding the offer from their members for this length of time. Surely they realize that the more time their members have to reasonably examine and debate the contents the more capable they will be of making an informed decision.
I'm feeling some sympathy for Unite in this situation. My husband's business has Unite members and their representatives have never behaved like BASSA's representatives. Will have to ask them over a glass of wine some time what their thoughts are about BASSA's leadership through this scenario. They probably have some worthy insight.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...and arriving back to my computer I read this fun post by a new member on the CC thread:
Long time reader , first time poster ! 
The Rep concerned is highly respected and is very well loved by Bassa members , he has always been forthright and honest in both his postings and Emails , i trust him , i believe him and perhaps you flyboys need to ask yourselves if you are the ones being lied to ... because a senior rep , backed by an undisclosed senior manager says you are ... maybe just think about it before you dimiss it outright !! Cheers
The Rep concerned is highly respected and is very well loved by Bassa members , he has always been forthright and honest in both his postings and Emails , i trust him , i believe him and perhaps you flyboys need to ask yourselves if you are the ones being lied to ... because a senior rep , backed by an undisclosed senior manager says you are ... maybe just think about it before you dimiss it outright !! Cheers
Diplome,
as I've said before, I think you have a good perspective on this dispute.
One comment that I would make, though, (and I made it many pages ago), you have to have been in a major/nasty dispute as a participant to realise how one's perspective becomes very, very altered by the dynamics of the dispute itself. Holley et al might well believe in everything they say/do.
The fact that the rest of the world thinks that they are extremely peculiar is irrelevant to them during the dispute. They honestly believe that they are doing the right thing. It's the same syndrome that had perfectly normal and reasonable Germans manning concentration camps. Going back further, the Brits in S Africa manned concentration camps where many, many people died. The "abnormal" becomes "normal".
Thus, people that you and I might well want to lock up due to their apparent lack of connection with the world around them become "respected and very well loved".
Of course, Thatcher and Scargill, and the Brits in S Africa, were "respected and very well loved".
as I've said before, I think you have a good perspective on this dispute.
One comment that I would make, though, (and I made it many pages ago), you have to have been in a major/nasty dispute as a participant to realise how one's perspective becomes very, very altered by the dynamics of the dispute itself. Holley et al might well believe in everything they say/do.
The fact that the rest of the world thinks that they are extremely peculiar is irrelevant to them during the dispute. They honestly believe that they are doing the right thing. It's the same syndrome that had perfectly normal and reasonable Germans manning concentration camps. Going back further, the Brits in S Africa manned concentration camps where many, many people died. The "abnormal" becomes "normal".
Thus, people that you and I might well want to lock up due to their apparent lack of connection with the world around them become "respected and very well loved".
Of course, Thatcher and Scargill, and the Brits in S Africa, were "respected and very well loved".
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ancient Observer,
It beggars belief that *any* of the reps are "very well loved" by BASSA members after up so badly.
I wonder how "very well loved" are the ones who managed to wheedle out of going on strike!
It beggars belief that *any* of the reps are "very well loved" by BASSA members after
up so badly.I wonder how "very well loved" are the ones who managed to wheedle out of going on strike!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I must admit, I am more than a little suspicious about the "long time reader, first time poster"'s post....
Perhaps its another attempt at rabble rousing by the reps, its not our fault you are in this situation - blame the evil pilots and their union....
Isnt the pilots union also affiliated to unite? one would expect words to be had if that were the case.
Perhaps its another attempt at rabble rousing by the reps, its not our fault you are in this situation - blame the evil pilots and their union....
Isnt the pilots union also affiliated to unite? one would expect words to be had if that were the case.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The 3 Valleys
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA reps long-term illness
Apparently the head of BASSA - Liz Malone - has been on sick-leave for 12 months.
Undoubtedly companies have different internal rulings, but can somebody tell me what the basic employment law is on this i.e. when can an employer say "enough" and on what terms does the employee then depart ?
Undoubtedly companies have different internal rulings, but can somebody tell me what the basic employment law is on this i.e. when can an employer say "enough" and on what terms does the employee then depart ?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AlpineSkier
...you are correct, BA do have their own procedure.
The link below will give you a good idea as to what UK law requires, without actually having to read the law, which is a horrible task.
Acas - Advisory booklet - Managing attendance and employee turnover
The link below will give you a good idea as to what UK law requires, without actually having to read the law, which is a horrible task.
Acas - Advisory booklet - Managing attendance and employee turnover
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ancient Observer:
Interesting comments. Thank you.
I'm not inclined to believe that BASSA and its Reps truly believe the majority of their representations..though I do believe they WANT to believe which can produce the same poor result.
I understand that part of the nature of Union business is drawing together your membership by identifying a perceived shared injustice. You can't have a strike without some of that occurring.
However you can take it so far as to be detrimental to your cause.
My personal suspicion is that BASSA Representatives lack the knowledge or sophistication to understand the basics of negotiation or the ability to recognize the nuanced messages that will occur in the process.
Therefore, as they have to have SOMETHING to represent to their members, we see the constant inaccurate and overblown rhetoric coming from their side as they talk AT their members. I truly believe they have enough self-awareness to know what they are doing is ineffective and having a negative impact on their membership, but its rather a case of not being able to stop themselves from singing off-key to an ever diminishing choir.
As time winds down to the next milestone I expect to hear even more of the same.
Interesting comments. Thank you.
I'm not inclined to believe that BASSA and its Reps truly believe the majority of their representations..though I do believe they WANT to believe which can produce the same poor result.
I understand that part of the nature of Union business is drawing together your membership by identifying a perceived shared injustice. You can't have a strike without some of that occurring.
However you can take it so far as to be detrimental to your cause.
My personal suspicion is that BASSA Representatives lack the knowledge or sophistication to understand the basics of negotiation or the ability to recognize the nuanced messages that will occur in the process.
Therefore, as they have to have SOMETHING to represent to their members, we see the constant inaccurate and overblown rhetoric coming from their side as they talk AT their members. I truly believe they have enough self-awareness to know what they are doing is ineffective and having a negative impact on their membership, but its rather a case of not being able to stop themselves from singing off-key to an ever diminishing choir.
As time winds down to the next milestone I expect to hear even more of the same.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Python21:
Must be one of those very early contracts
I also found 'Long time reader, first time poster's' posting amusing but query how he can post on the CC thread (Airline Staff only) aged 77 ?