BA Strike - Your Thoughts & Questions

[Entaxei]

Brainless Egos (BASSA &/or Unite?)

I totally fail to understand the mindset that thinks that it is being, in any manner, sensible, to refuse a unique opportunity to seek to regain the public confidence in BA, (who fund its income), or in the union itself, after the effect on the public during the strike, and the various threats made.

If I were a union member, I would be demanding to know who was involved in this decision and what the voting was by name.

And the union is worried about a performance evaluation scheme!! - no need - it will have died a suicidal death long before then - its called evolution of the fittest.

For background union edification, performance evaluation programmes have been in use in the computer industry since the early 1970's - and they work to the benefit of both staff and supervisors/managers - it certainly improves the quality of the managers!.

Now where did I see that Turkey - Independance day draws near (I can't wait for Christmas)!.

[ranger07]

Further to Brainless Egos (BASSA &/or Unite?)

So, seems BASSA/UNITE continue to show such arrogance. We hear of extraordinary selfless acts of humanity towards stranded passengers from many. When UNITE/BASSA are asked to show such compassion, we get the answer that we have now come to expect.
I truly believe that all these years of militancy and, more to the point, the past acts of holding the company to ransom, remain a nebulous judgement to all that's compasionate and moral. They,the militants, unlike the rest of us mere mortals, will never adapt to change.
I wonder if they really are aware of the anger amongst the rest of the workforce.
The workforce that has had to adapt, have gone the extra mile and 'worked for free' amongst many other examples in order for our airline to survive.
Yes, as I'm typing, I'm becoming angry. Angry towards those who believe that they have the right to undo OUR hard work, have the right to jeopardize our careers. I have worked dammed hard to get where I am, like many. And, as I have noted that some of them have posted on certain websites that they'd rather the company 'went down' than to accept inferior offers. They are totally deluded if they think that any airline will employ them as cabin crew. NO WAY.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that more volunteers will be trained up and make them irrelevant. I, amongst others are ready and willing to help.
Right will prevail!.

[MPN11]

@ BOAC ...

'Travelling Public' 45, 'Unite/BASSA' 0.
Unite/BASSA are now relegated to the 4th Division.
'Travelling Public' will meet 'British Airways' in the play-offs, once the Icelandic Aftermath has been resolved


I cannot believe that this sort of nonsense is still happening in the 21st Century.

[winstonsmith]

BASSA could not care less about BA and its customers - as presented by their recent behaviour of not approving rest time downroute to be brought back.

BA forwarded a request to BASSA and asked if they would allow crew to stay shorter in HKG instead of 2½ days - as under normal circumstances - BASSA did not agree and insisted that crew should have 2 local nights rest before operating back to base - taking no consideration whatsoever to the fact they would be bringing out empty aircraft from LHR.

Bringing out an empty aircraft with crew is regarded as being an operating crew - as they need to perform some duties onboard.

There is a word circulating that BASSA would have approved this request if crew had been "positioned" out to HKG on an aircraft with passengers - as these "duties" then would have been performed by the operating crew - but this would have resulted in 30 paying passengers being offloaded to accommodate 2 sets of crew.

Good on you BASSA and Miss Malone - you really care!

[MPN11]

Simply shameful.

How do these people sleep at night?

[wet vee two]

Dont blame the cabin crew, blame the small man syndrome manager that has killed a brand!

[ranger07]

Dont blame the cabin crew, blame the small man syndrome manager that has killed a brand!

I'm blaming the minority cabin crew. Don't tell me their actions are anything to do with the brand whatsoever...they are serving themselves with zero respect and care for anyone and anything but themselves!!

[jethrobee]

I may sound like I am supporting the CC here, but you do have to ask whether the union actually asked any working crew....

I just think it goes from bad to worse, what will it take for the average cc to realise that they are being led over a cliff by a bunch of politically motivated trade unionists....

[harrypic]

jethrobee

"I may sound like I am supporting the CC here, but you do have to ask whether the union actually asked any working crew...."

You would assume that they had, but from BASSA's no response to BA I would hope that they hadn't asked - otherwise I'd be very worried and thinking rank and file BASSA members would be vindictive and selfish enough to prevent BA ferrying desperate, worried and stranded passengers home as quickly as possible.....

[Diplome]

Dont blame the cabin crew, blame the small man syndrome manager that has killed a brand!

With all due respect BA is now reclaiming their brand.

The idea of passengers and stockholders being held hostage by the likes of individuals wearing men's undergarments branded with the CEO's image while yelling outside of a hotel is simply not acceptable.

BA is fighting to retain its "brand" against a militant group who can't be bothered with customer service.

If BASSA was so sure of its position don't you think they would let at least ONE offer to a membership vote? Haven't seen that yet.

[pencisely]

Miss M

Crew with VS have very poor union representation which is probably one of the reasons for their low salaries as well lower terms and conditions compared to BA. No doubt they want higher salaries and maybe this explains why crew are coming to BA and rarely the other way around.

No doubt the waitress in my local cafe would "like" more money the problem she has is that she is easily replaced (like you) and the law of supply and demand dictates the pay level for this role. CC have the same problem, the reason you are currently earning above your market rate is indeed the result of strong union represenation over recent decades - this is effectively what has caused the current problems you all have. The girl in the cafe has no union representation so guess what? - she is paid the market rate for the job. If suddenly the "cafe waitress union" managed to win for their members a doubling of her wage the likelihood is the cafe would need to increase its prices and the local competition would thrive. Meanwhile her employer would whither and die unless it took drastic action - sound familiar?

Poor union representation explains why their equivalent to our CSD earns 50% less and if you were in BA you would also know that none of us will not get anywhere near those salaries ever again. Those days are long gone by.

It also explains why this dispute has come about, it is about an adjustment back to a sustainable market rate. If others are willing and able to come in and do your job at half your current rate and allowances then I am afraid that is the new market rate.

Miss your postings are educational in that they help many of us SLF see where the root of the problem really lies.

I have recently booked more flights with BA to the detriment of VS who we normally travel with. The flights during the strike period were so invigorating in terms of the attitude and obvious commitment from the on-board staff it ill be hard to match in VS Upper Class. Hopefully soon BASSA will call an all out indefinate IA which will re-create this experience. I truly hope that all my future flights with BA will be during IA periods, it was a great experience that will be hard to repeat. On an IA period flight you can be assured that the service is delivered by passionate employees focused on customer service, on a Non IA flight we can expect some service by the militants. Be assured that some of us will be on the look out for some of the neagtive attitudes threatened on this forum. Direct input to the BA CC exit managment programme will be supplied. Personally speaking I will make time to attend any pre or post sacking disciplinary hearings.

Time to get real - there are many overstated comments by BASSA CC on here about the importance of CC towards fligh safety.

Us SLF have a good idea what contributes to flight safety -

1) The Wright brothers for inventing flying - just brilliant people
2) Boeing and airbus engineers for designimg and building safe aircraft - graduates/ Phd's - minimum entrance level
3) Air Traffic controllers - smart people - graduates and above
4) Pilots - a requirement of aptitude, intelligence and character such that only .0001 % of the working population could undertake the role.

Aspects not so critical to safety? - maybe the coffee servers/door closers? - 99.9 of the population able to undertake this job.

A lot has been made of CC's role in saving PAX in a crash - fact - it has almost never happened. Before we hear about the heathrow 777 lets conisder the difference in injury/death rate between staying in that aircraft and exiting from it - answer 0 thanks very much to the skill of the pilots in getting it across the fence.

[binsleepen]

Sunday Times

An article in the Sunday Times about the volcano disruption says:

The chaos is set to continue. British Airways (BA) is facing a new strike threat from cabin crew, with Bassa, a branch of the Unite union, planning to ballot members this week for possible industrial action to be announced days before the election as part of its long-running dispute with the airline.

Regards

[tomkins]

Pencisley
beg to differ with you,re rather biased view on relative intelligence of people who work within the flying world and their roles related to security.
From where did you pull the figure of 0.0001 % of the population only being able to become flight crew ,I would have to rubbish this.
Cabin crew do have safety and medical training which although not often put into practise could be useful in an emergency situation,(like flight crew ,most of whom will go through their entire career without ever experiencing a real emergency).Day to day they serve tea and coffee,day to day planes are mostly flown by computers,however its when things go tits up that as a passenger ,you WOULD be happy to have a competant pilot and WOULD be happy to have a trained up crew who may just do something that saves you're life.

[pencisely]

Tomkins

From where did you pull the figure of 0.0001 % of the population only being able to become flight crew ,I would have to rubbish this.

Ok maybe overstated to make a point but BA used to receive 10,000 applicants for about 100 ab-initio flight crew training places annually. Given these 10,000 by virtue of the academic entrance requirements are already in the top 10% academically I think you will find my figures are not to far from reality.

It is the reason WW has already done the deal with the pilots, he does not have the same options their with being able to train up volunteers to do the job in 21 days. You simply cannot train someone from the office to fly a 747 in 21 days whereas you can probably expect to produce pretty acceptable cc in the same time from almost the whole of the Non flying BA community.

Your comments about planes being mostly flown by computers is amusing and shows much ignorance as to the role of the flight crew but also re-inforces the point about where the cc sit in the order of safety criticality on the aircraft. The fact that you are ranking the role of the cc along with the flight crew is just another illustration of the unrealistic roots of this dispute.

If I learnt that I was about to get on a flight with an incompetent flight crew then I would very likely refuse to board - on the other hand I would not take the same action on learning that the cc are incompetent as it simply does not have the same impact.

My comments are not aimed at the intelligence of cc it is simply a fact of life that the laws of supply and demand are not in your/their favour.

It sounds like any future IA will have an ever decreasing impact on the BA schedule largely because of the reasons outlined above. I am sure WW is quietly thinking "bring it on" which will allow him to once and for all treat this cancer within his organisation.

[Diplome]

Dawdler:

There is enough critical commentary regarding BASSA/Unite on the CC thread that I hardly think there is a plan to keep another mistake by Unite a secret.

I can see where BASSA supporters may not wish to publicize the latest gaffe but they are not the entire CC board participants.

[tomkins]

Pencisely
of course you are right,I am largely ignorant of what the job of being a pilot involves,and I was in no way trying to compare the relative safety and security responsibilities of the two jobs,however I was a little surprised by the way you seemed to rubbish the role of cabin crew.
Of course it only takes a few weeks to train cabincrew ,and many months/years to train as flight crew however there is a selection process for crew which is designed to recruit the best candidates in the eyes of BA ,like there is for flight crew ,so only a small percentage are taken on.
I get the impression that you would like to see all crew working for a market rate ,but how do you work out a market rate for someone who has been working for the company for 30 years and has achieved a position of responsibilty onboard.
Sure ,it would be fantastic for the shareholders if WW could sack all high earning crew and replace them with waitresses on the minimum wage
,but if profitability was the only word ,the same would be done to flight crew who would be replaced with far cheaper versions ,who,having read other threads on this forum ,seem to be very numerous.

[Der absolute Hammer]

The business of UNITE refusing to cooperate with the government and get stranded Britons home......interesting that the ruling party says nothing. Could there be a Harriet Harman, next leader of Labour, connection there perhaps?

[Der absolute Hammer]

That is perhaps part of the BA problem all along. Just scrolled through an Independent article from 2007 about the vitriol and poison thrown by BASSA then. Article says that out of 14,000 cabin crew, 700 call in sick on any given day. I would think, sotto voce, that 5% of the work force calling sick on a permanent rolling basis means that a large percentage of that work force are in it for the rip off?

BA cabin crew accuse T&G union boss of 'selling out' over strike - Business News, Business - The Independent

[Diplome]

When you get yourself into a position where your company simply says "Oh never MIND, we can't be bothered with you and we'll get somebody else" to do your job when you are being recalcitrant....you are in BIG TROUBLE! Yikes!!!

Baggersup:

Your comment is accurate in the extreme.

BASSA has seems to be incapable of any reasonable and serious leadership at this point. It just seems beyond them.

The CC thread has this missive, represented as being from Duncan Holley:

I have just heard something which may explain why WW is prepared to give staff travel back to strikers but not with their original seniority.

This is 100% reliable information and not gossip -

the pilots have told Walsh they will "withdraw all co-operation" (ie assist in any further strike breaking) if BA fully reinstates our staff travel.

So the pilots are holding Walsh to ransom, probably so they get their reward by moving up the staff travel seniority ladder. Makes you wonder who is actually running this airline at present.

Nothing ceases to amaze me any more concerning our so-called colleagues in the cockpit. There may be some "good ones" out there but if they are standing by and letting this happen then they are at least guilty by association.

Is this the best BASSA can do? Their membership needs negotiation and diplomacy, and their Reps are still posting about rumours and "he said, she said" pablum.

Its like watching a union being run by Benny Hill.

[tomkins]

Although some crew may abuse the system , there are certain conditions where crew are forbidden to fly (and before clocking in to work, they must confirm that they are fit to fly)ie contagious conitions,after certain dental treatments ,even head colds where the ears are blocked and could rupture .These may not stop you in a normal job from going to work ,however they do bump the sick rate to above normal levels.