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The perils of drink

Old 3rd Mar 2010, 14:14
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LCD, first still waiting for a response from your company

Secondly, flying a superSLF on a charter we were amazed to witness the amount of free booze being delivered. A rather frightful 'champagne' before take-off (they said it was champagne but it was frightfully red) and then the CC continued to dispense on an individual basis, except for the pax in row 1. They just gave them a couple of bottles, one gin, one rose, and both emptied on the 9 hour flight between the 3 of them.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 16:06
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Just to add my thoughts this does sound slightly ridiculous, but having travelled in all cabins, it is certainly true, that on the long haul flights, at the pointy end they will happily re-fill your glass as long as you let them really.

Never had a problem at the back, but often need to go back to the Gallery to ask for more, to stop pressing the old call bell, and also good for stretching the legs when 'at the back'

My view is as long as your not drinking too excess, it's a good aid to sleep and does help pass the time...
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 16:58
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All Ahead Full I'm so going to have to forget I'm CC when I come into this forum. "Pointy end" to me means the flight deck and when I read your post on refills at the pointy end it was initially !!!

Then I realised that pointy end to you is 1st or premium......phew

As someone who enjoys my wine when paxing I totally agree with you. It's OK in moderation. I think the way Mrs Seaoxen was treated totally long as she wasn't tiddly when placing her order.

Even then there are more sensitive ways of handling the situation. There is a difference between handling a lady who may have had a little too much (I'm not saying that was the case here) than clamping down on the rowdy lads/gals on the night Ibiza. A different approach is required but in both cases it should always be professional and not involve humiliation.

PN Given that your complaint involved safety concerns I think it unlikely that you would have a response to these by now to these as they would need to be investigated.

I would have thourght though you should have had acknowledgement from one of our "Customer Services Champions" () at least, especially as the complaint also involved servisair.......EZY's representatives at Paphos Airport.

If that is not the case please PM me and I can give you our CEO's email address free of charge as we are pals now Don't tell him LCD gave it though as otherwise

He always responds to emails personally. At least that is my experience
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:21
  #24 (permalink)  
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@ LCD ... I don't envy you the challenges of measuring and judging who has had too much. It's such a subjective area to to deal with. It is true that on 'certain sectors' you have to deal with pax who start the holiday at check-in. What that does to safety factors is scary, to say the least.
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Old 4th Mar 2010, 07:14
  #25 (permalink)  
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LCD, sorry for the confusion there, that would indeed be interesting if the people steering the ship were having their glasses refilled.

Saying that the only time I've been to the pointy end in the true sense of the word, was about 12 years ago coming back from Bangkok, where I was invited to the flight deck, expecting to see a hive of activity.

Imagine my surprise that when the door was opened to the flight deck, I was greeted with a big cloud of smoke, to find all the flight crew happily playing cards, with not one of them enjoying the fantastic view.

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Old 6th Mar 2010, 11:41
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TTB it can be a bit of a nightmare sometimes but dealing with it comes with experience. I have zero tolerance to drunks on a flight.

The sectors where the party has started at check in (and often before) are often the easiest to deal with from my point of view. Certain flights have this pax profile and we know what to look out for on boarding and what to ask the gate agent. Their return journey to LGW often starts at this point with or without Police involvement.

In flight we also know what to look out for. A gang of lads ordering 10 coke's is very as they are probably adding their own spirits......they think we are stupid when they deny this

I would never sell, or allow my crew to sell, two at a time of anything on these flights despite the company incentives. I am responsible for, and report to the Captain directly, re safety in the cabin. However somebody like Mrs Seaoxen having 2 bottles of wine should not be an issue IMHO.

I know there are some pax who have posted in this forum that safety is not the number one priority for airlines. I can honestly say that for the front line crew it always is. I don't do drunks for safety reasons. The Captain's have always supported any offloads I have done and so have my company.

AAF I've yet to see a "hive of activity" in the flight deck in all my years of flying Sorry Pilots!! In a sunny cruise it reclining seats, sun shades down, on tap meals/drinks and newspapers scrounged on turnaround from the CC.....all the time quietly monitoring the aircraft and ATC.

I've also been on flights where things have moved up several notches due to a technical problem or otherwise. Even then focused professionalism at all times by the Guys whatever might be happening.

On your Bangkok flight all was well as long as the cloud of smoke wasn't from the wacky baccy that went with their refills
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Old 6th Mar 2010, 17:39
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I'm sorry that your wife had to endure that kind of ticking off. From my own experience a little common sense goes a long way. A friendly, sober lady asking for 2 bottles is very diferent from a roudy stag party asking for 2.

To be on the safe side I always made a mental note of who had asked for 2 and would not serve a third if they polished them off in the first 20 minutes and were up for thirds and fourths. I cetainly wouldn't be reading the riot act to a sober passenger and embarrasing them infront of the entire economy section!

Intrestingly I had the passenger perspective on overzealous Qantas cc who gave me the third degree on use of the overwing exit when I was on a trip from Singapore...I respect thoroughness but this woman had a manic glint in her eye as she asked me SEP intensity questions regarding when/where/how/when not to use the thing....she seemed very crestfallen when I rattled off the answers....Having said that I do like Qantas and I'm sure, like your experience, it was a rogue bad apple.
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Old 6th Mar 2010, 19:16
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The only time I've seen people off loaded is when they were genuinely ill - as I was when it happened to me.
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Old 7th Mar 2010, 10:48
  #29 (permalink)  
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sea oxen

Let that one go through to the keeper...

I've only got 11" and 70lbs over her!

Oxen indeed.
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Old 7th Mar 2010, 14:44
  #30 (permalink)  
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ampclamp, that thought had indeed gone through my mind But, has he always been an Ox or does he have children?

OK.OK. it's Sunday afternoon, I'll go and put the kettle on...
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 00:58
  #31 (permalink)  
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In contrast to Mrs Sea Oxen on Qantas, Horizon Air were very generous to me on a short flight Portland (Oregon) to Seattle recently.

The CC had opened a largish bottle of microbrewery ale (bottle about 3/4 size of a typical wine bottle?) to serve to passengers, but there had not been many takers. As they came round a second time they offered me the rest of the bottle, as there were not many others sampling this particular brew. I ended up getting easily at least 3/4 of a large bottle of a fine Portland brew - many thanks Horizon!

I must have come across as a fairly sensible individual though, as that amount of a fairly strong beer would probably have an effect on someone who was already tipsy.

It appears that Qantas were rough on Mrs SO though, I hope they can acknowledge that they handled it badly.
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 04:19
  #32 (permalink)  
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Policy vs Brains

Just to clarify, from the ops manual, the responsible service of alcohol policy states that multiples of drinks are not to be served. HOWEVER, common sense would dictate as has already been stated, that you would use your JUDGEMENT in a case like Mrs SO. Unfortunately, some CC lack this, but if they thought there was an issue they should have gone to their supervisor.

That aside, no one should be publicly humilitated and subtlety is the key.I am sorry for her bad experience.

BTW regarding the exit row briefing, sounds perfect to me. I would however be very HAPPY that all the answers were known, and think of that person should an emergency arise....
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Old 8th Mar 2010, 09:06
  #33 (permalink)  
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A story told to me by an Oz chum years ago still makes me chuckle:

Chum was travelling somewhere by QANTAS. A large, amiable Ozmate was sitting across the aisle looking rather annoyed at being ignored by a couple of, errm, 'nice' stewards who were nattering with eachother in the front galley. Eventually he got fed up and pressed the call button several times, before calling out "Oi, Flossie! Would you and your bloody girlfriend stop bloody yakking and bring me a bloody beer. Now!!" The rest of the passengers thought this was hilarious, but the puce-faced steward who flounced down the aisle clearly didn't....

Seriously, if someone treated Mrs SO in the way you describe, he deserves to be disciplined and Mrs SO should be given some compensation and a sincere apology.
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Old 9th Mar 2010, 19:51
  #34 (permalink)  
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Thanks are again in order, especially for LCD and Bunkrest.I found flyergirl's explanation of the policy very elucidating - and predictably, the policy is aimed at the lowest common denominator.

I could fold it in half...

Well, it seems that Mrs SO was not under the influence and it was her only tipple during the nine-hour flight. She explained that she was too embarrassed to request a second bottle later, when the second round with the drinks trolley took place. I received a bit of a kicking for even having enquired, as she's not touched anything since she arrived in Australia, ten days ago.

I have some writing to do, it seems. This 'Befehl ist Befehl' culture is a way of life now, isn't it?

If you want a demonstration of an uncouth Australian yob making CC sob!

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Old 10th Mar 2010, 01:11
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re alcohol service on qantas there are two types of crew. the first is the crew who have been flying 10 years or longer before the requirement to hold a 'responsible service of alcohol' certificate before applying for the job. training also emphasises the 'one drink at a time'. there are different ways of saying "no" to two drinks and a lecture is certainly a waste of everyones' time. crew who have been flying longer than 10 years mostly will provide an extra drink during the first service as, with the reduction in crew numbers, SLF can often be waiting for their first drink for more than an hour after take-off. however even the oldies are loath to give two drinks at a time further into the flight. with regard to the lecture your wife received, i apologise and hope that it is not repeated.
responsible service of alcohol gets discussed occasionally in the galley. some years ago a senior member of crew (30 years flying) was asked what he thought 'responsible service of alcohol' meant. his reply; "don't spill it on the passengers"!
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Old 15th Mar 2010, 12:55
  #36 (permalink)  
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I didn't want to infer that the exit briefing was wrong, infact I believe the quality of the questions were absolutely spot on (and far better than some of the ' this is the exit, these are the instructions off you go' variety I've come across on my travels...

It was just I recognised the world weary, final sector, last day, annoyance that was written across her face and blazed in her body language. I understood that she was probably exhausted and no doubt annoyed that umpteen previous pax had not taken her questions seriously,so, understandably, she just let the professionalism slip sligtly. (As I'm sure I have when sleep deprivation and jet lag shortens the fuse by a few metres!)

I just wanted to say that I was really very impressed with the quality and professionalism of the Qantas crews - and that level of questioning is absolutely correct - it was just how it was delivered by this one lady ... I hope I haven't offended anyone!
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