BA - Lesson 1:01: How To Seriously Upset A Group Of Premium Customers
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well further to my last post, checked the prices of club out of LHR->NYC. And you can get that for £750. So the market has collapsed, and my question might not apply.
And more interesting, well to me at least, is that the NYC-LHR is running at over £3k, that's night flights whereas LHR-NYC is daytime.
So does that suggest people are flying out in WT during the day, but paying £2.5k more for a flat seat to kip in on the way back??? Expensive hotel room if they are.
And more interesting, well to me at least, is that the NYC-LHR is running at over £3k, that's night flights whereas LHR-NYC is daytime.
So does that suggest people are flying out in WT during the day, but paying £2.5k more for a flat seat to kip in on the way back??? Expensive hotel room if they are.
Last edited by Scumbag O'Riley; 8th Feb 2010 at 11:44.
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@ scumbag ... where did you get that £750 fare? Was that just one half of a round trip?
I'e just checked and ba.com is saying
ONE-WAY LHR>JFK £3122 and LCY>JFK £3411.
RETURN LHR>JFK>LHR is showing £1490 [£745 per sector].
One-way trips always cost silly money, and you can't quote the price for half a return ticket - although that could make for a cheaper option [just tear up the return half!!]
Ready to be corrected, of course
Meanwhile, I have read other posts suggesting the WT out, Flat-bed home philosophy; pay for the upgrade on the return flight. Makes for sound economics, especially for those LUCKY people who are expected to work on the day they get back to UK [I had a friend who lived that life all the time, doing the JFK run at least twice a month].
I'e just checked and ba.com is saying
ONE-WAY LHR>JFK £3122 and LCY>JFK £3411.
RETURN LHR>JFK>LHR is showing £1490 [£745 per sector].
One-way trips always cost silly money, and you can't quote the price for half a return ticket - although that could make for a cheaper option [just tear up the return half!!]
Ready to be corrected, of course
Meanwhile, I have read other posts suggesting the WT out, Flat-bed home philosophy; pay for the upgrade on the return flight. Makes for sound economics, especially for those LUCKY people who are expected to work on the day they get back to UK [I had a friend who lived that life all the time, doing the JFK run at least twice a month].
Last edited by Two-Tone-Blue; 8th Feb 2010 at 17:37.
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Just for a bit of balance, I have in the last few months started to fly twice a month with Lufthansa in business via FRA. I am also a Gold BA Exec Club holder and have flown in Business/First with them regularly for years.
Experience of Lufthansa:
- 9 times out of 10 both the plane out and in to FRA goes to a remote stand. Business class are put in the same bus as everyone else.
- I don't get a limo at either end.
- the service and seat on board isnot as good as NCW.
- FRA makes LHR T5 seem an absolute dream. FRA is a shambles.
- Tickets are extraordinarily expensive, but I have little alternative options.
I also have regular experience of BMI and Emirates in business. BA may not be perfect, but they are not the shambles regularly made out on here (as anyone who has tried to log in to Diamond Club recently will testify).
Experience of Lufthansa:
- 9 times out of 10 both the plane out and in to FRA goes to a remote stand. Business class are put in the same bus as everyone else.
- I don't get a limo at either end.
- the service and seat on board isnot as good as NCW.
- FRA makes LHR T5 seem an absolute dream. FRA is a shambles.
- Tickets are extraordinarily expensive, but I have little alternative options.
I also have regular experience of BMI and Emirates in business. BA may not be perfect, but they are not the shambles regularly made out on here (as anyone who has tried to log in to Diamond Club recently will testify).
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Try Cyprusair. Flew last summer, I and the one other Biz pax were put in a bus of our own while the 150 or so down the back were all jammed together in the only other bus. Then we all met up again 200 meters away at the reclaim.
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The issue with buses at T5 is primarily due to the BAA not building the terminal on time or to the required specification. T5C is still not ready and T5B was cut back to save money when it was sold to the spanish. That is why the end jetty of T5A is the longest in the world.
BA have, as a result, to coach over 20% of their operation at their home base and in the newest terminal in Europe!!
Add to this the mess that is LHR generally. 94% of all aircraft movements take place between the two runways and these are planned to be used at almost their maximum allowed rate for most of the day.
Then add ludicrous 1950/60 noise regulations limiting use of runways and preventing sensible dual use all day long.
Throw in a bit of bad weather....it does not matter what type, snow rain wind, sunshine and the landing rate will plunge from 48/hr to often less than 40. Indeed on most days of the year some form of regulation is applied to the landing rate, which in turn impacts on turn rounds and therefore on departures and therfore on stand use and planning.
For good measure add BAA incompetance. They train to create queues at this they are the best in the world. But security screening is woeful.
Upshot is BA get clobbered time and time again.
I like BA, fly BA and will knock them when required, but bottom line here is they operate at the worst major airport in Europe if not gloablly and which should be bulldozed and relocated as soon as possible and then run by and airport company and not a retail consortium.
BA have, as a result, to coach over 20% of their operation at their home base and in the newest terminal in Europe!!
Add to this the mess that is LHR generally. 94% of all aircraft movements take place between the two runways and these are planned to be used at almost their maximum allowed rate for most of the day.
Then add ludicrous 1950/60 noise regulations limiting use of runways and preventing sensible dual use all day long.
Throw in a bit of bad weather....it does not matter what type, snow rain wind, sunshine and the landing rate will plunge from 48/hr to often less than 40. Indeed on most days of the year some form of regulation is applied to the landing rate, which in turn impacts on turn rounds and therefore on departures and therfore on stand use and planning.
For good measure add BAA incompetance. They train to create queues at this they are the best in the world. But security screening is woeful.
Upshot is BA get clobbered time and time again.
I like BA, fly BA and will knock them when required, but bottom line here is they operate at the worst major airport in Europe if not gloablly and which should be bulldozed and relocated as soon as possible and then run by and airport company and not a retail consortium.
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Originally Posted by ConstantFlyer
Thank you! At last someone has actually said it!
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Air Travel Experience
The problem of frustrations through airports, regardless of whether you are travelling AA,BA,CA,VS etc is the root cause of dissatisfaction even before you get on board.
The flight, Y,C,J,W or F, is the relaxing part before you take on the rigors of customs and immigration at your destination.
Perhaps the start and end of the trip should be the focus of passengers' angst.
The flight, Y,C,J,W or F, is the relaxing part before you take on the rigors of customs and immigration at your destination.
Perhaps the start and end of the trip should be the focus of passengers' angst.
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IIRC the OP's complaint was about the end of his journey. And BA not seeing the need, or being too cheap, to treat the guys who paid the equivalent of 10 Y fares, or more, a little better.
BA zinged me this week BEFORE my trip. Got an e-mail and an SMS telling me around 11PM that my flight to IAD was cancelled (apparently they had a bit of snow). Gave me a phone number to call - "Thank you for calling British Airways, our opening hours are 8AM to 6PM Monday to Friday. {click}. Club class to IAD, although the cheapest out of Switzerland, wasn't that cheap. From their website I found a number in the UK that I called (at my expense). While I understand they aren't going to have an office open here - but why not give me a number I can get somebody 24/7.
Bloody Awful? No Bloody Cheap!
Edited to comment = I am NOT complaining about the cancellation, I sorta expected it given the reported conditions.
BA zinged me this week BEFORE my trip. Got an e-mail and an SMS telling me around 11PM that my flight to IAD was cancelled (apparently they had a bit of snow). Gave me a phone number to call - "Thank you for calling British Airways, our opening hours are 8AM to 6PM Monday to Friday. {click}. Club class to IAD, although the cheapest out of Switzerland, wasn't that cheap. From their website I found a number in the UK that I called (at my expense). While I understand they aren't going to have an office open here - but why not give me a number I can get somebody 24/7.
Bloody Awful? No Bloody Cheap!
Edited to comment = I am NOT complaining about the cancellation, I sorta expected it given the reported conditions.
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ExXB's experience demonstrates BA's lack of enthusiasm for customer service. Several years ago my father was taken ill in Cyprus. I was told late on a Saturday evening. A call to BA's UK booking line was automatically rerouted from their closed UK call centre to their US centre who were able to help me make the required booking. I was a very impressed and satisfied punter. Nowadays I appreciate that I could have done this on ba.com. But...the point is that they have withdrawn the excellent service which enabled customers to call 24/7. Not very customer centric, I suggest.
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The problem of frustrations through airports, regardless of whether you are travelling AA,BA,CA,VS etc is the root cause of dissatisfaction even before you get on board.
BA's problem (as this thread is BA centric) is that they are players in the dissatisfaction and do not seem to realise that it impacts their reputation.
If I pay several thousand € for a business class ticket, I do expect priority treatment (accepting that first class should receive even higher priority.)
As other posters have lucidly described, being forced to play sardines on a bus or getting 'slow track' security or just generally being p*ssed around (e.g. online check in info says no need for visa check, queue at 'fast track'
security entrance point for 5 mins, then sent back for visa check) is not providing value for money.That is why I tend to avoid BA, where my experience is that the air part of the journey is good or better, but the ground part is unreliable and sometimes shambolic.
I don't care whether BA is based at a poor airport, I do expect VFM and will usually find it by flying other airlines.
e.g. my last trip to the middle east was with BD, no fast track security, great *Alliance lounge, departure from a jetty and a good flight. It was a little irritating not to have fast track security on a J ticket, but then again the airfare was £700 less than BA and the total time in security was probably about the same for my average fast track experience at T5 (i.e. about 10-12 minutes.)
Coming back from the middle east, last year on BA, the menus in club were incorrect.
I ordered breakfast, to be informed that unfortunately that meal was not available, as the meals loaded were different. I was offered a beef bacon sandwich and anyone who knows the middle east will recognise that this is rather unhealthy, in fact it is the stuff that hardened arteries are made of.
The same thing happened for lunch, although the crew did preempt the situation by informing us of the fact beforehand and reading out the available options.
As I did not really like the sound of the options on the lunch menu (once again high fat/high calorie), I decided to hang on to eat at the arrivals lounge as the CC serving me told me that they did food there until one hour after our STA. I also had an hour to kill before checking into my Heathrow hotel.
When I got to the arrivals lounge (flight being on time), there was a couple of slices of ham, a piece of lettuce and some distressed bread.
I was informed that they were 'winding down to close' and that the chef has gone home, so that was all that was available; this later proved to be not quite correct, as the chef came out and offered to cook me some eggs on toast, which was a nice offer.
However, by this time I was rather fed up of the whole performance and somewhat hungry (eggs on toast didnt really inspire me), so I left my silver card with the duty manager, with instructions to explain to the Exec Club that I wouldn't be needing it anymore and went to M&S Only Food, where I bought a delicious sandwich and a nice green salad.
The extra £6 was not really much under the circumstances, but as I had paid 3,000€ for the ticket, it was disappointing that I had to for out for my own lunch.
I have not booked another long haul ticket with BA since and have no intention of doing so unless the schedule mandates it.
Someone at BA needs to get their act together, as the ground side lets down the air experience.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 13th Feb 2010 at 15:54.
First started flying as pax 40 yrs ago. Since I live in the North of England, there were far more options than BA, although I used them regularly, since it was company policy for one company I worked for.
I recently reviewed my airmiles tally, and realised that I was about to lose them if I didn't use them fairly soon, because I don't often travel with BA these days. Booked a seat in CW MAN-LHR-MRU.
The outbound transfer at LHR was fine (my first experience of T5), airbridges used for both flights. Boarded the LHR-MRU flight and settled down - or tried to. I discovered I was surrounded by six very drunk Finns, (it's not just we Brits you know!) who had obviously put their legendary drinking skills to good use since checking in at Helsinki.
After about 90 minutes of their disruption the CSD told them that there would be no more alcohol, and apologised to me very loudly, following which they went quieter and eventually slept.
On the return, I was allocated the upper deck (I wasn't about to spend £60 to get the seat of my choice), only to find myself surrounded by a family of four with two young children, who spent the entire 12 hours running up and down the aisle, with their parents making feeble efforts to control them.
Both the long-haul flights were completely full (or so I was told), so there was no option to change seats.
I don't do IFE - I started flying long before it was even thought of, and I've lost the film halfway through too many times to even bother switching it on these days - you can't beat a good book and a pair of (bought) earplugs!
On arrival at T5, I found the signage and staff so poor that I ended up clearing immigration with everyone else (appaprently there is a transfer system, but it's poorly signposted and the BA staff don't seem know how it works). Airbridges used for both return flights. Lounge OK, but it doesn't hold a candle to the VS one.
KLM is now my preferred carrier and my platinum-for-life card is useful for accruing points, and I've been upgraded on both long and short haul flights more times than I can remember, with none of the problems mentioned above. KLM aren't perfect - I've had my baggage mislaid loads of times, but they are always contrite and top up my mileage total witout being asked. BA once lost my baggage for three months(!) and I had a hell of a job trying to claim for missing contents of the half-empty suitcase which was eventually returned to me. I imagine the contents were probably on display at the clothes market in Tehran.
Up here we have such a good choice of airlines, albeit with a change involved on some long-haul flights, (but we northerners are used to adversity) and I shall continue to avoid BA whenever possible.
I recently reviewed my airmiles tally, and realised that I was about to lose them if I didn't use them fairly soon, because I don't often travel with BA these days. Booked a seat in CW MAN-LHR-MRU.
The outbound transfer at LHR was fine (my first experience of T5), airbridges used for both flights. Boarded the LHR-MRU flight and settled down - or tried to. I discovered I was surrounded by six very drunk Finns, (it's not just we Brits you know!) who had obviously put their legendary drinking skills to good use since checking in at Helsinki.
After about 90 minutes of their disruption the CSD told them that there would be no more alcohol, and apologised to me very loudly, following which they went quieter and eventually slept.
On the return, I was allocated the upper deck (I wasn't about to spend £60 to get the seat of my choice), only to find myself surrounded by a family of four with two young children, who spent the entire 12 hours running up and down the aisle, with their parents making feeble efforts to control them.
Both the long-haul flights were completely full (or so I was told), so there was no option to change seats.
I don't do IFE - I started flying long before it was even thought of, and I've lost the film halfway through too many times to even bother switching it on these days - you can't beat a good book and a pair of (bought) earplugs!
On arrival at T5, I found the signage and staff so poor that I ended up clearing immigration with everyone else (appaprently there is a transfer system, but it's poorly signposted and the BA staff don't seem know how it works). Airbridges used for both return flights. Lounge OK, but it doesn't hold a candle to the VS one.
KLM is now my preferred carrier and my platinum-for-life card is useful for accruing points, and I've been upgraded on both long and short haul flights more times than I can remember, with none of the problems mentioned above. KLM aren't perfect - I've had my baggage mislaid loads of times, but they are always contrite and top up my mileage total witout being asked. BA once lost my baggage for three months(!) and I had a hell of a job trying to claim for missing contents of the half-empty suitcase which was eventually returned to me. I imagine the contents were probably on display at the clothes market in Tehran.
Up here we have such a good choice of airlines, albeit with a change involved on some long-haul flights, (but we northerners are used to adversity
) and I shall continue to avoid BA whenever possible.
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Originally Posted by barry lloyd
KLM aren't perfect - I've had my baggage mislaid loads of times...
Losing luggage is probably the single most stressful thing that can happen on a flight. Only one airline has ever mislaid my bags, and I have never flown with them again. (It was SAS, and it turned out to have been a deliberate decision not to transfer bags from a late feeder flight at CPH in order to maintain the onward schedule).
As a percentage of the the times I have flown with them, it would be in single figures. I'm not one of those people who gets stressed about mislaid baggage. If you explain the circumstances, they'll invariably come up with some cash to buy things to put you over, and/or an amenity pack as appropriate. I'd far rather arrive safely with an airline I can trust (and I've been obliged to fly with some I couldn't).
Last edited by barry lloyd; 14th Feb 2010 at 16:54.
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As a trivial observation, when bigger issues are at stake, the last 2 occasions I have had the much-vaunted "Bacon Roll" [in the air and in a Club lounge] it was bordering on inedible. In future I shall bring my own rations to ensure my well-being, because BA Club simply doesn't deliver.
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From the Cabin Crew Thread ...
At which point we may see some clarity about what the future holds for the pax as well as the CC.
From the courts website....
Judgment in the following case will be given at 10.30am on Friday 19th February 2010 by Sir Christopher Holland
TLQ/09/1107 Malone & ors v British Airways Plc
Judgment in the following case will be given at 10.30am on Friday 19th February 2010 by Sir Christopher Holland
TLQ/09/1107 Malone & ors v British Airways Plc
Last edited by Two-Tone-Blue; 17th Feb 2010 at 18:16.
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Above all else, what has put me off travelling Club World is BA's attitude towards service recovery.
In he past the Miles credited to me when things went wrong left me feeling positive towards the airline. Now complaints are treated differently.
By the way, I, too, think the bacon rolls onboard are truly awful. I was offered one at breakfast a couple of months ago and it was inedible. Add to that the fact that my flight from the West Coast arrived after the Arrivals Lounge had closed and I was peeved.
Does BA care? I don't think so.
In he past the Miles credited to me when things went wrong left me feeling positive towards the airline. Now complaints are treated differently.
By the way, I, too, think the bacon rolls onboard are truly awful. I was offered one at breakfast a couple of months ago and it was inedible. Add to that the fact that my flight from the West Coast arrived after the Arrivals Lounge had closed and I was peeved.
Does BA care? I don't think so.