Passenger accused of being drunk on plane
If I can manage without a cigarette from enetring the terminal in one country to exiting at another I'm damn sure people can manage without alcohol.
Singapore Airlines Singapore Air keeps champagne budget to win first-class fliers - eTurboNews.com
N4790P
Ten West,
Good for you but why should I?
If I can manage without a cigarette from enetring the terminal in one country to exiting at another I'm damn sure people can manage without alcohol.
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The same argument applies. I can't smoke on an aircraft because the effects of my disgusting habit will affect the safety and comfort of those around me. Fair call.
Drunks affect the safety and comfort of those around them as a result of their dependance on alcohol.
I "enjoy fine wines" too, but there's a time and a place for it, and inside a metal tube at 35,000ft and 500mph isn't one of them in my opinion.
What's the answer then? Breathalyse them at check-in and only permit boarding if they're below a certain level of intoxication?
Anyway, the financial argument will win out as it always does, so there's little point in me continuing to stick my two cents in.
Drunks affect the safety and comfort of those around them as a result of their dependance on alcohol.
I "enjoy fine wines" too, but there's a time and a place for it, and inside a metal tube at 35,000ft and 500mph isn't one of them in my opinion.
What's the answer then? Breathalyse them at check-in and only permit boarding if they're below a certain level of intoxication?
Anyway, the financial argument will win out as it always does, so there's little point in me continuing to stick my two cents in.
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The same argument applies. I can't smoke on an aircraft because the effects of my disgusting habit will affect the safety and comfort of those around me. Fair call.
Fact: being drunk is not the same as being alcoholic - alcoholics are drink dependent.
Fact: measuring alcohol content in the breath is not measuring intoxication, it is measuring against an allowable limit.
Smoking in a confined space causes passive smoking for others.
People drinking a glass of wine or two in a confined space has no effect on others.
People drunk on aircraft are committing a crime, therefore punish the minority, not the law abiding majority. Also sanction people who let drunks onto aircraft.
You sound as it you also need medical attention to remove that sliver of wood that is lodged in your upper body.
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Hi Ryan The penalty for being drink on an aircraft is severe if a case is proved in court. A maximum fine of £5000 and/or 2 years in prison in the UK. That relates to the first part of the ANO. This would also apply to a crew member and on top of that we would loose our job and Pilot's would loose their licence
With regard to your question re Part 2 also picked up by Bullethead. Crew being able to walk in a straight line is not indicitive of our fitness to operate!! We are not allowed to be a "bit pissed or a bit drugged" despite what you may see on Mile High or read in Air Babylon
Drugs (the illegal kind) are a complete no go area. If we are on prescribed medication of any kind we have to flag this up to our medical dept who will decide whether we are fit to fly.
With regard to alchohol we can fly with a limit of 0.2mgs/ml. That is a quater of the drink drive limit. In addition we are not allowed to drink for a minimum number of hours before operating so the chances of us reaching this miniscule level are remote. We are also not allowed to drink on standby's and positioning flights.
Back to pax being drunk F3G makes a very interesting point stating he has never seen a drunk in business or first but still thinks there are some.
As crew we have no way of knowing if we have drunks on board until they cause a problem and that is in whatever class. Even in the rowdiest of stag parties there is usually one of them who is sober enough to know if they don't tone it down on boarding they won't fly.
I have a very simple approach to problems on the ground......they stay on the ground if either the ground staff or crew can identify them!
Unfortunatly if they don't show themselves until the cruise then it can become a real issue for everyone. Don't really know what the answer is on that one?
With regard to your question re Part 2 also picked up by Bullethead. Crew being able to walk in a straight line is not indicitive of our fitness to operate!! We are not allowed to be a "bit pissed or a bit drugged" despite what you may see on Mile High or read in Air Babylon
Drugs (the illegal kind) are a complete no go area. If we are on prescribed medication of any kind we have to flag this up to our medical dept who will decide whether we are fit to fly.
With regard to alchohol we can fly with a limit of 0.2mgs/ml. That is a quater of the drink drive limit. In addition we are not allowed to drink for a minimum number of hours before operating so the chances of us reaching this miniscule level are remote. We are also not allowed to drink on standby's and positioning flights.
Back to pax being drunk F3G makes a very interesting point stating he has never seen a drunk in business or first but still thinks there are some.
As crew we have no way of knowing if we have drunks on board until they cause a problem and that is in whatever class. Even in the rowdiest of stag parties there is usually one of them who is sober enough to know if they don't tone it down on boarding they won't fly.
I have a very simple approach to problems on the ground......they stay on the ground if either the ground staff or crew can identify them!
Unfortunatly if they don't show themselves until the cruise then it can become a real issue for everyone. Don't really know what the answer is on that one?
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Solar - your account does not make sense.
You say you were moved to an earlier flight. The captain was asked to wait for you. Then once onboard the cabin crew told you he thought you were drunk.
Sorry, have I missed something here? You must have done or said something to someone in this chain of events for him to reach the decision that you were to be kicked off the flight!
You say you were moved to an earlier flight. The captain was asked to wait for you. Then once onboard the cabin crew told you he thought you were drunk.
Sorry, have I missed something here? You must have done or said something to someone in this chain of events for him to reach the decision that you were to be kicked off the flight!
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...You sound as it you also need medical attention to remove that sliver of wood that is lodged in your upper body.
We don't let our crew members fly with even a tiny amount of alcohol in their systems for safety reasons. What makes pax any different? If anything, a drunk crew member will be able to find their way out of a burning airframe easier than a drunk pax due to their familiarity with their surroundings.
Anyway, I should have known better than to attempt to engage in a debate on so thorny a subject because it will always degenerate into personal digs (as the above quote so ably demonstrates)
I'm off now to have that sliver of wood removed.
G'Night all.
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Pax are the ones who are paying the salaries, while crew are being paid salaries
Please, let's just see sense and say that ideally, it would be nice (but never going to happen) if there was a way of ensuring that the blood alcohol levels of all boarding pax is limited to .02, and then crew can confidently serve a limit of x servings of alcohol per hour of flight, so as to ensure the flight remains safe for the entire length of the flight.
Too many times I've returned from mining areas and pax around me have gone berserk ordering repeat drinks to end up completely obliterated by the time they arrive.
I like a drink, but don't see the need to get hammered on a flight. The smoking argument is fair enough because when left in the control of pax, it DOES affect my enjoyment of the flight when I'm getting shouted at etc...
Matt
smudgie - perhaps I could have worded my last post a little better - didn't mean to wind you up.
Because passengers are paying rather than being paid for the duration of a flight, there will be an expectation that passengers have a greater degree of freedom in what they do compared to crew. An example being able to snooze whenever they like - whereas crew are generally encouraged to be awake for the duration of the time the aluminium tube is in the air.
Many airline marketing departments have in the past employed an advertising strategy which implicitly promises free alcohol to all passengers - the bit about 'we won't serve booze if we think you're drunk' has tended not be advertised at a pre-sales stage that much. Thus pax in all but the cheapest of seats have this expectation of getting free booze. I can't recall a safety demonstration ever saying 'Please try to stay sober enough that you would be able to use the emergency oxygen mask if you had to'
Yes, there are bounds beyond which passengers should not go. However, in my opinion, airlines also need to hold back a bit from using the offer of on-board alcohol as a marketing tool to sell tickets if drunkenness is viewed as a problem.
Because passengers are paying rather than being paid for the duration of a flight, there will be an expectation that passengers have a greater degree of freedom in what they do compared to crew. An example being able to snooze whenever they like - whereas crew are generally encouraged to be awake for the duration of the time the aluminium tube is in the air.
Many airline marketing departments have in the past employed an advertising strategy which implicitly promises free alcohol to all passengers - the bit about 'we won't serve booze if we think you're drunk' has tended not be advertised at a pre-sales stage that much. Thus pax in all but the cheapest of seats have this expectation of getting free booze. I can't recall a safety demonstration ever saying 'Please try to stay sober enough that you would be able to use the emergency oxygen mask if you had to'
Yes, there are bounds beyond which passengers should not go. However, in my opinion, airlines also need to hold back a bit from using the offer of on-board alcohol as a marketing tool to sell tickets if drunkenness is viewed as a problem.
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Personally I do on occasion require a G&T on a plane just to calm my nerves as I can be a nervous flyer at times. I have no intention of drinking excessively, I would just have 1 in the airport before boarding and maybe another 1 during flight if required. I appreciate that smokers need cigarettes to calm their nerves, but unfortunately to offer the ability to smoke without disturbing any other customers is a lot more difficult than to offer the ability to have a calming drink. I would be more than happy to pay for a G&T on the flight if that would stop people from getting drunk on the plane, I don't particularly see any reason why alcohol should be provided for free in economy class if it's going to lead to problems with drunks.
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I don't think economy pax have a monopoly on misbehaviour beebob2uk, but I do take your point. The way "having a few beers" is handled makes a big difference. I recall when I was on DragonDare back from Beijing after a hefty day's work I woz sinking more than a a few (business class) ales down, and when ordering another the hostie asked me with a bright smile and outstretched hand "how many fingers are there". Her point was made, I got my beer, but I didn't ask for any more. Very professional. Maybe down the back of the cabin they can't keep count.....
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Airports & aircraft should be total alcohol free zones. Problem solved
Totally ban alcohol in the UK and you would stop all the drunk drivers, all the alcohol related injuries and deaths and the crime statistics would fall dramatically.
Or there is another option.
Simply use the existing laws and regulations already in place and refuse boarding to anyone who is or appears to be drunk, or if someone is found to be drunk when on board, prosecute them at a later date.
I fly a great deal, and when doing so I enjoy the odd beer or glass (or two) of wine. Why should I be forced to give this up simply because of a tiny percentage of pax who don't know when to stop.
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Drunks affect the safety and comfort of those around them as a result of their dependance on alcohol.
I "enjoy fine wines" too, but there's a time and a place for it, and inside a metal tube at 35,000ft and 500mph isn't one of them in my opinion.
I "enjoy fine wines" too, but there's a time and a place for it, and inside a metal tube at 35,000ft and 500mph isn't one of them in my opinion.
You will find the problem person well lubed before they ever get on the plane
But in the period of my life where I flew over 100 times a year for around 5 years only once did I see someones behaviour should we say be somewhat worse for wear due to being under the influence - and a very well known person too.
Drunk on a 'plane?
I must have achieved that hundreds of times. Then again - once drunk I tend to fall into blissfull sleep so I don't bother anyone.
Chill out Ten West - pax are supposed to actually enjoy flying not be restrained and treated like Guantanamo inmates. If you want to refrain from alcohol that's up to you but don't force your uncivilized practices on the rest of us.
With regard passengers drinking and becoming abusive or such. Simple. Ban 'em. Any costs - charge 'em.
I must have achieved that hundreds of times. Then again - once drunk I tend to fall into blissfull sleep so I don't bother anyone.
Chill out Ten West - pax are supposed to actually enjoy flying not be restrained and treated like Guantanamo inmates. If you want to refrain from alcohol that's up to you but don't force your uncivilized practices on the rest of us.
With regard passengers drinking and becoming abusive or such. Simple. Ban 'em. Any costs - charge 'em.
Nicolas49
Sorry if what I posted is unclear hopefully I can clear this up.
The flights in question were quite some time ago and were from LHR to BFS which you may remember were equally shared between the two predominate British airlines. These flights departed on alternate hours from the then Belfast lounge.
I arrived in the lounge at what I thought slightly too late for the earlier flight but as I was passing the check in desks the ground staff from the other airline (earlier flight) asked if I was going to Belfast (which was slightly ironic as that was the only destination from that lounge at that time) and would I like to go on their flight, I replied in the affirmative. After the usual examination of my ticket and questions about checked in luggage of which I had none they issued a boarding card.
Whilst this was going on another ground staff member was on the handheld radio to the aircraft appraising them of the situation ticket.
They then left me to walk across the apron to the aircraft which was about 50 yards away. This was in full view of the cockpit so I assume that the captain observed me walking across to the stairway and made the assumption that I was drunk based on the following.
I was late. I wasn’t but did he know why.
I was wearing only a tee shirt in the middle of January and it was fairly cold. I never carry a coat when traveling if I can help it.
I was unshaven. Having been traveling for 20/24 hours this would be fairly normal.
The fact that it was a Belfast flight may also be an influence with some of the preconceived notions there are about the Irish social habits.
I arrived at the top of the steps and the seating layout was such that there was no bulkhead on the aft side of the door so you are in full view of the assembled passengers when you step in the doorway. The cockpit door was open (You remember the good old days).and both pilots were looking into the passenger compartment.
I was in the process of showing the boarding card to the FA when she said the captain thinks you are too drunk to travel. As you can imagine I was somewhat taken aback and asked just how did he arrive at that conclusion? Her reply was something along the lines the captain thinks it so that’s that. I could see that I was getting nowhere particularly as the captain and first officer were listening to the exchange and offering no explanation or any help to the FA which I thought was somewhat cowardly. I know all the reasons for the flight crew not getting into arguments but this was on the ground. So as I was in no particular hurry anyway I told the captain (over the FA’s shoulder) that he was wrong and then went back to the terminal.
I have a lot of friends who are commercial pilots and I can’t think on any of them that would act in this way, if they did I doubt they would be friends of mine.
The captain was wrong for whatever reasons.
Sorry if what I posted is unclear hopefully I can clear this up.
The flights in question were quite some time ago and were from LHR to BFS which you may remember were equally shared between the two predominate British airlines. These flights departed on alternate hours from the then Belfast lounge.
I arrived in the lounge at what I thought slightly too late for the earlier flight but as I was passing the check in desks the ground staff from the other airline (earlier flight) asked if I was going to Belfast (which was slightly ironic as that was the only destination from that lounge at that time) and would I like to go on their flight, I replied in the affirmative. After the usual examination of my ticket and questions about checked in luggage of which I had none they issued a boarding card.
Whilst this was going on another ground staff member was on the handheld radio to the aircraft appraising them of the situation ticket.
They then left me to walk across the apron to the aircraft which was about 50 yards away. This was in full view of the cockpit so I assume that the captain observed me walking across to the stairway and made the assumption that I was drunk based on the following.
I was late. I wasn’t but did he know why.
I was wearing only a tee shirt in the middle of January and it was fairly cold. I never carry a coat when traveling if I can help it.
I was unshaven. Having been traveling for 20/24 hours this would be fairly normal.
The fact that it was a Belfast flight may also be an influence with some of the preconceived notions there are about the Irish social habits.
I arrived at the top of the steps and the seating layout was such that there was no bulkhead on the aft side of the door so you are in full view of the assembled passengers when you step in the doorway. The cockpit door was open (You remember the good old days).and both pilots were looking into the passenger compartment.
I was in the process of showing the boarding card to the FA when she said the captain thinks you are too drunk to travel. As you can imagine I was somewhat taken aback and asked just how did he arrive at that conclusion? Her reply was something along the lines the captain thinks it so that’s that. I could see that I was getting nowhere particularly as the captain and first officer were listening to the exchange and offering no explanation or any help to the FA which I thought was somewhat cowardly. I know all the reasons for the flight crew not getting into arguments but this was on the ground. So as I was in no particular hurry anyway I told the captain (over the FA’s shoulder) that he was wrong and then went back to the terminal.
I have a lot of friends who are commercial pilots and I can’t think on any of them that would act in this way, if they did I doubt they would be friends of mine.
The captain was wrong for whatever reasons.
Does the ANO define the term "drunk"? If, for example they used the legal limit for driving in the UK, it would be quite possible to walk on the plane sober and by drinking only the drinks offered by the airline become drunk within a couple of hours.
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etrang I think the ANO in the UK does indeed refer to our drink drive limit. I'm not sure re other countries but I would assume the same re their drink drive limits. The ANO's form part of the Tokyo Convention 1963 and around 170 contries have signed up to this.
Would you believe that as CC we are trained that we are not allowed to say somebody is "drunk" even if they plainly are. Only a doctor or a police officer can state this folllowing the relevant breathe/blood tests.
The police are generally called to the aircraft because we have behaviour likely to endanger an aircraft or person therein... Article 73. Quite often you can add in Article 77 to this regarding the Commanders authority. However at this stage we can only say we suspect drink is the underlying cause.
Once said yobs get carted off it is likely that they could be charged under all three sections of the ANO if they prove positive to tests.
I agree with your point below which is precisely why you are only allowed to drink airline alcohol not your own so we can monitor consumption and behaviour.
Of course responsibility works two ways. Some people are more suseptible to the affects of alcohol than others especially at altitude. If pax feel the affects of this they could always get a non alcoholic drink instead
It's not compulsery to drink everything the airline offers
Would you believe that as CC we are trained that we are not allowed to say somebody is "drunk" even if they plainly are. Only a doctor or a police officer can state this folllowing the relevant breathe/blood tests.
The police are generally called to the aircraft because we have behaviour likely to endanger an aircraft or person therein... Article 73. Quite often you can add in Article 77 to this regarding the Commanders authority. However at this stage we can only say we suspect drink is the underlying cause.
Once said yobs get carted off it is likely that they could be charged under all three sections of the ANO if they prove positive to tests.
I agree with your point below which is precisely why you are only allowed to drink airline alcohol not your own so we can monitor consumption and behaviour.
Of course responsibility works two ways. Some people are more suseptible to the affects of alcohol than others especially at altitude. If pax feel the affects of this they could always get a non alcoholic drink instead
It's not compulsery to drink everything the airline offers
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ANO's are all very well and good, but crew have neither the training nor equipment to determine if anyone is acting under the influence of alcohol / drugs.
The only personnel so trained and equipped are medical professionals / police officers.
Caution is required before off-loading and/or accusing pax of alcohol / drug induced misbehaviour.
Negotiation with the pax may result in a voluntary off-load which is a much better result. This has worked for me in the past.
I have no sympathy for the miscreants by the way.
The only personnel so trained and equipped are medical professionals / police officers.
Caution is required before off-loading and/or accusing pax of alcohol / drug induced misbehaviour.
Negotiation with the pax may result in a voluntary off-load which is a much better result. This has worked for me in the past.
I have no sympathy for the miscreants by the way.
