Are male passengers perverts?
So what happens if it isn't possible to find an alternative seat in the class booked, or a higher class? Is the male passenger going to be downgraded or off loaded?
I did have a flight to Nice a few months back, when I was seated next to a very attractive Italian girl in her early 20s. When we hit turbulence (actually enough for CC to be instructed to fasten seat belts), she said 'Talk to me. I'm frightened'. She didn't need a cuddle, though......
I did have a flight to Nice a few months back, when I was seated next to a very attractive Italian girl in her early 20s. When we hit turbulence (actually enough for CC to be instructed to fasten seat belts), she said 'Talk to me. I'm frightened'. She didn't need a cuddle, though......
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@ Radeng and anyone else asking similar questions about offloading of men.
This is what I wrote in a similar thread in another part of Pprune...
The fact of the matter is that the rule states that UM's cannot be seated next to "Male passengers travelling alone"! No male passenger needs to be moved or offloaded. It is actually up to the checkin agent to ensure when the UM is being allocated a seat that it is next to a female. What happened on board this flight happened because the crew member WAS IN THE WRONG. This man was NOT travelling alone so therefore does not come under the ruling AND even if he was, the rule does not state that the male needs to move, the crew member should have used some cop on and just move the kid without causing any fuss or even needing to reveal the rule.
Every company has idiots like that who both get the rules wrong and seem to glee in imposing their version of the rules on others...suppose its a power trip thing!
This is what I wrote in a similar thread in another part of Pprune...
The fact of the matter is that the rule states that UM's cannot be seated next to "Male passengers travelling alone"! No male passenger needs to be moved or offloaded. It is actually up to the checkin agent to ensure when the UM is being allocated a seat that it is next to a female. What happened on board this flight happened because the crew member WAS IN THE WRONG. This man was NOT travelling alone so therefore does not come under the ruling AND even if he was, the rule does not state that the male needs to move, the crew member should have used some cop on and just move the kid without causing any fuss or even needing to reveal the rule.
Every company has idiots like that who both get the rules wrong and seem to glee in imposing their version of the rules on others...suppose its a power trip thing!
Paddy,
It's not unknown on a Friday night for Club Europe to be full of men and no women travelling back from Europe to Heathrow. Now if a UM was booked in Club Europe with an onward connection to Oz, then what? Downgrade the UM, and upgrade someone from Economy? You can see that going down well with the UM, espeiclaly if they are expecting a meal. Even if every possible opportunity was taken at check in to avoid the problem, one can see that circumstances can arise from this rule where CC are in deep dodo whatever they do - especially if there's been cancellations.
I've had a similar experience on Amercian Airline. The CC wanted to keep the last row clear to put stuff on, and lady with three kids had them in the same row as me, and her over the aisle. CC didn't want to know (usual AA CC bloody mindedness) until I politely asked if they didn't have SOPs for unaccompanied males sitting next to children. With bad grace, she moved me back a row......probably because she figured someone knowing what SOP stood for just might be able to cause trouble.
It's not unknown on a Friday night for Club Europe to be full of men and no women travelling back from Europe to Heathrow. Now if a UM was booked in Club Europe with an onward connection to Oz, then what? Downgrade the UM, and upgrade someone from Economy? You can see that going down well with the UM, espeiclaly if they are expecting a meal. Even if every possible opportunity was taken at check in to avoid the problem, one can see that circumstances can arise from this rule where CC are in deep dodo whatever they do - especially if there's been cancellations.
I've had a similar experience on Amercian Airline. The CC wanted to keep the last row clear to put stuff on, and lady with three kids had them in the same row as me, and her over the aisle. CC didn't want to know (usual AA CC bloody mindedness) until I politely asked if they didn't have SOPs for unaccompanied males sitting next to children. With bad grace, she moved me back a row......probably because she figured someone knowing what SOP stood for just might be able to cause trouble.
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Redang,
Im crew and as such I am more aware of the many holes in this rule then you can imagine. It is a difficult one and one that needs to be dealt with on the day. But the fact of the matter is this.....No other passengers need to be made aware of the situation! The crew should deal with the child as such and leave everyone else out of it.
Like a broken record...yes the rule is daft, yes its a very grey area BUT its here and we have to obey it until something changes and as such you can pick holes in my apparent "defense" of the rule as much as you like but those are the facts! lol
But to be honest, I dont think I have ever seen a UM actually booked in any cabin other then WT.
Im crew and as such I am more aware of the many holes in this rule then you can imagine. It is a difficult one and one that needs to be dealt with on the day. But the fact of the matter is this.....No other passengers need to be made aware of the situation! The crew should deal with the child as such and leave everyone else out of it.
Like a broken record...yes the rule is daft, yes its a very grey area BUT its here and we have to obey it until something changes and as such you can pick holes in my apparent "defense" of the rule as much as you like but those are the facts! lol
But to be honest, I dont think I have ever seen a UM actually booked in any cabin other then WT.
paddy,
I've seen one UM in Club Europe from Nice (LHR - NCE - LHR is almost a commuter flight for me these days): I believe it was transiting on to the Far East in Club World. But I agree, it's not usual.
Just as having 2 pax assigned the same seat isn't usual......last time it happened to me, I kept the seat even though I was second one there, because they'd got the special meal booked for that seat!
I've seen one UM in Club Europe from Nice (LHR - NCE - LHR is almost a commuter flight for me these days): I believe it was transiting on to the Far East in Club World. But I agree, it's not usual.
Just as having 2 pax assigned the same seat isn't usual......last time it happened to me, I kept the seat even though I was second one there, because they'd got the special meal booked for that seat!
Does anyone know what the current position is of the particular CC member in this case? I feel the vast majority of CCs presented with this situation, would have engaged their brains first & then dealt with it using respect, diplomacy & tact, funny that often gets a good result all round.
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I hope Mirko Fischer wins his defamation/discrimination case. This sort of nonsense and the numpties who make these stupid rules and have to be sorted out quickly and hopefully, very expensively. It's amazing how quickly rules are changed when cash provides the incentive.
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Actually, I would hope that Mr. Fischer could be appeased by an apology. Not from BA but from the CC that caused the problem - by not applying BA policy and engaging one's mouth before one's brain.
I also hope that BA has a second thought about this. If they are going to take responsibility for the UM, they simply cannot dump them in a seat 'near the galley' and hope for the best. Why not confirm a stand-by staff member to sit next to little precious?
I also hope that BA has a second thought about this. If they are going to take responsibility for the UM, they simply cannot dump them in a seat 'near the galley' and hope for the best. Why not confirm a stand-by staff member to sit next to little precious?
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Funny, I had never intended on posting on my recent experience with BA until I saw this thread.
The exact same situation happened with me 3 weeks ago when travelling back from Baltimore to LHR. I paid to pre-select a window seat in Economy, checked in online all with no problems for my assigned seat. Got to my seat and there's an unaccompanied minor sat beside me on the aisle seat. I must point out that I'm only 24 so hardly fit the old man pervert image but that it subsequently how I was made to feel soon enough. Just before pushback a cabincrew member comes over after they've checked seatbelts, etc.
She bluntly tells me that I'm not allowed to sit beside a young child and tells me that I have to move. Of course I'm not going to give up my paid for window seat without at least questioning the reasons so I protest the case and tell her that I specifically selected a window seat and didn't understand why I had to move. The child, a 14 year old boy, at that point offered to move as he didn't even want to be near a window and there were 2 middle rows free down the back. However she was having none of it and told me that I was the one that had to move as I shouldn't have sat there in the first place!!!! So I get brought down the back and put right at the very back in a seat that wouldn't even recline due to the bulkhead behind it so as a result I couldn't sleep.
While I've no intention of making a bigger deal out of this other than an email to customer services, I won't be travelling with BA in the future because of the way this was handled and how they made me feel. Handled differently I'd have no problem with this policy, even a simple apology from a member of the cabin crew would have been sufficient. The fact the matter wasn't dealt with using discretion annoyed me most. All the passengers in the near vicinity heard what she was saying.
Already I've booked my next flight to the US with a different airline even though BA was €30 cheaper. Good work guys
The exact same situation happened with me 3 weeks ago when travelling back from Baltimore to LHR. I paid to pre-select a window seat in Economy, checked in online all with no problems for my assigned seat. Got to my seat and there's an unaccompanied minor sat beside me on the aisle seat. I must point out that I'm only 24 so hardly fit the old man pervert image but that it subsequently how I was made to feel soon enough. Just before pushback a cabincrew member comes over after they've checked seatbelts, etc.
She bluntly tells me that I'm not allowed to sit beside a young child and tells me that I have to move. Of course I'm not going to give up my paid for window seat without at least questioning the reasons so I protest the case and tell her that I specifically selected a window seat and didn't understand why I had to move. The child, a 14 year old boy, at that point offered to move as he didn't even want to be near a window and there were 2 middle rows free down the back. However she was having none of it and told me that I was the one that had to move as I shouldn't have sat there in the first place!!!! So I get brought down the back and put right at the very back in a seat that wouldn't even recline due to the bulkhead behind it so as a result I couldn't sleep.
While I've no intention of making a bigger deal out of this other than an email to customer services, I won't be travelling with BA in the future because of the way this was handled and how they made me feel. Handled differently I'd have no problem with this policy, even a simple apology from a member of the cabin crew would have been sufficient. The fact the matter wasn't dealt with using discretion annoyed me most. All the passengers in the near vicinity heard what she was saying.
Already I've booked my next flight to the US with a different airline even though BA was €30 cheaper. Good work guys
Last edited by bkehoe; 21st Jan 2010 at 15:21.
You should at least demand the money back that you paid for a window seat. I'd write a personal letter to Willy complaining and demanding the money.
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[The cabin crew member] bluntly tells me that I'm not allowed to sit beside a young child and tells me that I have to move. Of course I'm not going to give up my paid for window seat without at least questioning the reasons so I protest the case and tell her that I specifically selected a window seat and didn't understand why I had to move.
"I am willing to move to another seat, but as I paid to reserve this seat I would like that request from you in writing, so that I can pass it to my lawyer to get a refund of the reservation fee and compensation for ending up on a worse seat than is part of the contract I have with BA."
Any crewmember willing to answer?
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No problem, write them a letter outlining your loss of enjoyment on the flight due to their breach of the contract by failing to provide the seat you paid for.
Ask for a refund of the cost of the seat, pus £50 for loss of enjoyment (couldn't sleep due to non reclining seat etc)
Give it 7 days, if they don't reply or you aren't happy with the reply, give them a final warning and let them know (in temperate language) that the next stop witll be the small claims division of the county court, set a deadline of 10 days
If you get there, you will be able to have a good laugh when the administrator questions (a) why they were not able to manage their own policy by allocating seats to minors that comply with that policy (b) why they decided to breach their contract for the seat and to provide another seat with inferior comfort, when you had paid specifically for a seat with recline - if they argue they reserve the right to change seats, that will be a huge laugh given the lad offered to move and they forced you to and (c) rest assured that the cost of defending the action will be many time more than any compo you get.
Like other posters, I understand the reasons for this policy, however it does not excuse this type of jackbooted behaviour by cabin crew.
You were bullied, IMHO and bullying should be punished.
No problem, write them a letter outlining your loss of enjoyment on the flight due to their breach of the contract by failing to provide the seat you paid for.
Ask for a refund of the cost of the seat, pus £50 for loss of enjoyment (couldn't sleep due to non reclining seat etc)
Give it 7 days, if they don't reply or you aren't happy with the reply, give them a final warning and let them know (in temperate language) that the next stop witll be the small claims division of the county court, set a deadline of 10 days
If you get there, you will be able to have a good laugh when the administrator questions (a) why they were not able to manage their own policy by allocating seats to minors that comply with that policy (b) why they decided to breach their contract for the seat and to provide another seat with inferior comfort, when you had paid specifically for a seat with recline - if they argue they reserve the right to change seats, that will be a huge laugh given the lad offered to move and they forced you to and (c) rest assured that the cost of defending the action will be many time more than any compo you get.
Like other posters, I understand the reasons for this policy, however it does not excuse this type of jackbooted behaviour by cabin crew.
You were bullied, IMHO and bullying should be punished.
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Like other posters, I understand the reasons for this policy, however it does not excuse this type of jackbooted behaviour by cabin crew.
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I had written a final sentence questioning whether this type of behaviour could be driven by the cabin crew's beefts with management, then deleted it on second thoughts.
But you may well be spot on the money with your analysis.
BA needs to be punished for the actions of it's employees, since if enough people take a stand, the company will have to react.
I had written a final sentence questioning whether this type of behaviour could be driven by the cabin crew's beefts with management, then deleted it on second thoughts.
But you may well be spot on the money with your analysis.
BA needs to be punished for the actions of it's employees, since if enough people take a stand, the company will have to react.
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As I hadn't heard about this policy until this thread started one wonders whether there has been an "incident" triggering a reminder to CC to enforce this particular SOP?
And as for UniFoxOs' point re BA CC having a hissy fit, he may be right. I was irritated on my last BA LH flight to hear the CSD's welcome announcement include an apology in advance for any slippage of service standards "because we are now required to have 14 cabin crew onboard instead of the usual 15".
And as for UniFoxOs' point re BA CC having a hissy fit, he may be right. I was irritated on my last BA LH flight to hear the CSD's welcome announcement include an apology in advance for any slippage of service standards "because we are now required to have 14 cabin crew onboard instead of the usual 15".
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BA obviously had discussions with the UM's parent/guardian before the flight or at time of booking.
So why cant the policy be that during that discussion you ask the parent if they object to their UM sitting next to a male travelling on their own?
How many parents would actually say "yes i object, please sit them next to a female"???
So why cant the policy be that during that discussion you ask the parent if they object to their UM sitting next to a male travelling on their own?
How many parents would actually say "yes i object, please sit them next to a female"???
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How many parents would actually say "yes i object, please sit them next to a female"???
It's a bloody sad world, but I am coming to the conclusion that if I see ANY child in difficulties the only safe steps to take are long ones - in the opposite direction.
UFO