BA Cabin Crew Strike Threats (Merged)
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Well I'm delighted that WW has won round 1 against the dinosaurs. I shall enjoy my champagne on the Upper Deck all the more on the way to CPT on Sunday. 
I will also continue to support this great BRITISH airline.
I will also continue to support this great BRITISH airline.
Jsl/xt668
Moving on from the minutiae.
No-one likes to see their take home pay reduced, or worse-ask Globespan, but sometimes market forces must prevail. The business plan has to reflect what's going on in the industry-not what used to go on. To this end there has to be a carrot, even if it's just the small carrot of having a job at the end of it.
Colleagues at a highly regarded large far eastern carrier were asked to take first a 7% and then a whopping 16% salary cut at the time of 911 and then SARS. You didn't have to accept, there were contracts in force after all. But if you declined to sign how would all that sit when your own contract was up for renewal in a few months or at most 3 years. (The carrot). That airline returned to profitability, restored the wage but made it dependent on that profitability and still pay annual bonuses that Europeans can only dream of. Their crews work hard, have no safety net in hard times and yet enjoy an enviable reputation worldwide. OK so you may argue that their cost base is way down on BA's since they're based in the far east. But they sell tickets online worldwide and that is surely the nub of all of this.
To compete your business plan/cost base has to be somehow competitive with the rest.
If one section of your workforce's cost base is so offscale as to be cancerous the you have to tackle it head on-and even then you may not survive. It seems that until WW came along no CEO was really willing to grapple with this monster, and so the cancer grew.
Not all pills come sugar coated.
S
No-one likes to see their take home pay reduced, or worse-ask Globespan, but sometimes market forces must prevail. The business plan has to reflect what's going on in the industry-not what used to go on. To this end there has to be a carrot, even if it's just the small carrot of having a job at the end of it.
Colleagues at a highly regarded large far eastern carrier were asked to take first a 7% and then a whopping 16% salary cut at the time of 911 and then SARS. You didn't have to accept, there were contracts in force after all. But if you declined to sign how would all that sit when your own contract was up for renewal in a few months or at most 3 years. (The carrot). That airline returned to profitability, restored the wage but made it dependent on that profitability and still pay annual bonuses that Europeans can only dream of. Their crews work hard, have no safety net in hard times and yet enjoy an enviable reputation worldwide. OK so you may argue that their cost base is way down on BA's since they're based in the far east. But they sell tickets online worldwide and that is surely the nub of all of this.
To compete your business plan/cost base has to be somehow competitive with the rest.
If one section of your workforce's cost base is so offscale as to be cancerous the you have to tackle it head on-and even then you may not survive. It seems that until WW came along no CEO was really willing to grapple with this monster, and so the cancer grew.
Not all pills come sugar coated.
S
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Sygyzy,
I agree with you wholeheartedly, which is why I have been against this strike from the start. Ironically, BA have never asked for a pay cut. BASSA offered one, which BA turned down. Unfortunately, that seems to have been forgotten by many.
Maybe the fact that we work at a base that has seen so many airlines disappear makes us more aware of the realities of this recession. Admittedly, Globespan weren't based at LGW, but their aircraft were still regular visitors. Or maybe it is because so many of us have come from other airlines. I don't know. I just know that I, no doubt along with our passengers, just want to see the end of this constant destructive cycle, once and for all.
On that note, I'm boring myself now, so must be boring everyone else. I wish all those travelling over the Christmas period, a safe and enjoyable trip and Merry Christmas. Being a child at heart, I'm off to play in the snow!
Jsl
I agree with you wholeheartedly, which is why I have been against this strike from the start. Ironically, BA have never asked for a pay cut. BASSA offered one, which BA turned down. Unfortunately, that seems to have been forgotten by many.
Maybe the fact that we work at a base that has seen so many airlines disappear makes us more aware of the realities of this recession. Admittedly, Globespan weren't based at LGW, but their aircraft were still regular visitors. Or maybe it is because so many of us have come from other airlines. I don't know. I just know that I, no doubt along with our passengers, just want to see the end of this constant destructive cycle, once and for all.
On that note, I'm boring myself now, so must be boring everyone else. I wish all those travelling over the Christmas period, a safe and enjoyable trip and Merry Christmas. Being a child at heart, I'm off to play in the snow!
Jsl
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If one section of your workforce's cost base is so offscale as to be cancerous the you have to tackle it head on
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On the one hand
I'm very glad my transatlantic trip isn't going to be cancelled (unless the snow closes Heathrow again), I feel very let down by British Airways.
Despite having all the contact information on my bookings I never heard once from BA about my options. Even when I contacted the Executive Club, they had no information and had no idea when they would have any information.
I was on the verge of spending $4000 on AC tickets, and would have had the verdict gone the other way, because I was convinced that BA wasn't going to do anything to assist me.
Go to Manage Your Booking and change your flight ... Ya right, nothing available for 17 days.
I was gold, now silver and will burn my last BA miles on this trip. But in future I think I will go with Star. Nothing spectacular, but I don't think they will leave me in a lurch.
Despite having all the contact information on my bookings I never heard once from BA about my options. Even when I contacted the Executive Club, they had no information and had no idea when they would have any information.
I was on the verge of spending $4000 on AC tickets, and would have had the verdict gone the other way, because I was convinced that BA wasn't going to do anything to assist me.
Go to Manage Your Booking and change your flight ... Ya right, nothing available for 17 days.
I was gold, now silver and will burn my last BA miles on this trip. But in future I think I will go with Star. Nothing spectacular, but I don't think they will leave me in a lurch.
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The continual threats to continue with strike action just makes the demise of BA more inevitable as customers chsoe alternative carriers. Short term actions become long term habits.
Never travel with BA at holiday times as BA staff tend to have industrial action then to maximise the impact.
Going to the US - use an american carrier, they are never allowed to go completely bust - they slip into Chapter 11 and are revived.
Never travel with BA at holiday times as BA staff tend to have industrial action then to maximise the impact.
Going to the US - use an american carrier, they are never allowed to go completely bust - they slip into Chapter 11 and are revived.
Last edited by chrisbl; 17th Dec 2009 at 21:46.
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Star Alliance ie Air France
Our Carriers (skyteam.com)
Member Airlines - Star Alliance
13Alpha
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I am against strike action of any sort, noone ever wins. I fear the result of the next ballot will be the same as many people believe that Willie Walsh is to blame for everything. So best case for striking CC is that WW gets his P45 (unlikely), then what. Another person in charge who still has to save alot of money same as before. Unless they think the union can run an airline any better (not going on todays result).
Face up to the real world or there will be no BA.
We still have 2 bookings for 2010 so I hope there still is a BA.
Face up to the real world or there will be no BA.
We still have 2 bookings for 2010 so I hope there still is a BA.
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I do not work for BA, and neither do I know much about the so called "negotiations" that have taken place related to salaries/working practices. However, it is patently obvious to me that the Unite union appears to be run by a group who are knowingly leading their lemmings to the cliff face.
If I don't accept my working terms and conditions, or think I'm being worked too hard for the money offered, I simply look for another job that suits my finances and time off requirements better.
Right now I could do with an increased salary, and sure I can always do with a bit more time off....but in this economic climate I am struggling to find anyone who will pay me more for less. That being the case I have decided to stay exactly where I am right now....knowing that I am FAR better off than those who have all just been laid off.
Which bit of the above does NOT make sense to anyone from BA who would actually agree to a 12 day strike and potentially jeopardise the .future of a company that is already bleeding losses?
If you lose this battle - you will for SURE lose the war. I'm not sure what your next job title will be, Lemmings or Muppets, you choose!
If I don't accept my working terms and conditions, or think I'm being worked too hard for the money offered, I simply look for another job that suits my finances and time off requirements better.
Right now I could do with an increased salary, and sure I can always do with a bit more time off....but in this economic climate I am struggling to find anyone who will pay me more for less. That being the case I have decided to stay exactly where I am right now....knowing that I am FAR better off than those who have all just been laid off.
Which bit of the above does NOT make sense to anyone from BA who would actually agree to a 12 day strike and potentially jeopardise the .future of a company that is already bleeding losses?
If you lose this battle - you will for SURE lose the war. I'm not sure what your next job title will be, Lemmings or Muppets, you choose!
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I'm slightly surprised BA saw the injunction through: to an extent, I think they blinked. Had the strike gone ahead BA would have enjoyed massive public support, and had they wanted to play the hardest of ball could have simply shut down the airline on the first day of the strike and waited for the unions to rip themselves to pieces (in effect, a lock out). That they didn't want to try this line implies that they don't have the money or nerve for a full-scale battle.
On the other hand, the unions blinked too, perhaps having realised the enormity of what they'd let themselves in for. They could appeal the ruling, which they don't seem to want to, and this judgement gives them the moral fire in their bellies of ordering the strike without actually having to see it through.
If I were Walsh, though, I'd be hoping that some cabin crew are foolish enough to stage a mass sickie. Because then I can sack them on the spot, replace them, and take some hardcore out of the re-ballot. I'd probably lose a few tribunals six months down the line, but it'd be worth it. I don't know either if he has the nerve or the cabin crew the excessive bravery to go down this route, but it would make for tense viewing for other trade unions.
On the other hand, the unions blinked too, perhaps having realised the enormity of what they'd let themselves in for. They could appeal the ruling, which they don't seem to want to, and this judgement gives them the moral fire in their bellies of ordering the strike without actually having to see it through.
If I were Walsh, though, I'd be hoping that some cabin crew are foolish enough to stage a mass sickie. Because then I can sack them on the spot, replace them, and take some hardcore out of the re-ballot. I'd probably lose a few tribunals six months down the line, but it'd be worth it. I don't know either if he has the nerve or the cabin crew the excessive bravery to go down this route, but it would make for tense viewing for other trade unions.
JSL,
Bally heck! The longest we got there in Cally was 7 days. Long trip, techstop Athens but loadsa time on site - had enough after five days there though.
Bora Bora, Mambo Village Disco etc. - maxed out.
One of our UK MPs approached me at check in asking to be permitted on our flight with no ticket. She and her partner (now husband) had placed their passports, tickets and valuables in a car which they then parked in a Kenyan market.
It's a worry! When she later said that she had to get back for a division I said if I'd known that she'd still be in Mombassa
My charter crew friend has just picked up a 9 day Mombassa.
Bora Bora, Mambo Village Disco etc. - maxed out.
One of our UK MPs approached me at check in asking to be permitted on our flight with no ticket. She and her partner (now husband) had placed their passports, tickets and valuables in a car which they then parked in a Kenyan market.
It's a worry! When she later said that she had to get back for a division I said if I'd known that she'd still be in Mombassa
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Those of you rejoicing in the HC decision might like to read this very 'informed' comment from another forum:-
This is the level of informed? comment the BA staff are up against.
I have no love of BA and after a few bad trips with them will never use them again but this dispute is not of the union or CC making.
How would you feel if your 'terms and conditions' are altered when you have based your life, mortgage and family on the conditions you signed up for 10 years ago?
This reminds me of the Thatcher era when peoples lives were disrupted to please the 'Square Mile' with no thought to the disruption it might cause 20 years on. IE, the breakdown of the banking system because of Thatchers 'deregulation'!
What I'd like to know is, why can't the Captain, Co-pilot and flight engineer help out and push the trolleys up and down serving tea and coffee on a long haul flight ?
These aircraft are state of the art fly by wire and operate on auto-pilot for the majority of the time in the air. Let's be fair, if the engine blows, the flight engineer ain't going to grab his tool box and walk out on the wing.
These aircraft are state of the art fly by wire and operate on auto-pilot for the majority of the time in the air. Let's be fair, if the engine blows, the flight engineer ain't going to grab his tool box and walk out on the wing.
I have no love of BA and after a few bad trips with them will never use them again but this dispute is not of the union or CC making.
How would you feel if your 'terms and conditions' are altered when you have based your life, mortgage and family on the conditions you signed up for 10 years ago?
This reminds me of the Thatcher era when peoples lives were disrupted to please the 'Square Mile' with no thought to the disruption it might cause 20 years on. IE, the breakdown of the banking system because of Thatchers 'deregulation'!
What I'd like to know is, why can't the Captain, Co-pilot and flight engineer help out and push the trolleys up and down serving tea and coffee on a long haul flight ?
OK, as most peepl no, we don't carry a FE these days.
When I was a first officer on the B747-400 I went back to fix broken lavatories (messy), IFE, electric seats (my nice manager said I was 'proactive' - never heard the term before). I am, amongst other things, an ex marine engineer so that's what one does.
Whether I could handle an angry (possibly with good reason from pre boarding irritations) passenger is another matter. I have always preferred to leave that to the professionals until called to 'read the riot act' which only happened once and, with hindsight which is wonderful, we could have avoided that.
I'd just love to put your source in an 'automatic' aeroplane of his (surely not a 'her' with that attitude) choice and say "OK here we are at 35,000 feet inbound to DXB, gin clear day, totally undemanding, you land it."
OTOH he can have Kai Tak 13, 200/25G35 2000 8/600
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In the pub the other night some woman was ranting on about BA.
She said that as the travel manager for a big bank she will from now on be booking her bankers with any other airline than BA. I asked he if her decisions were final and she said no only advisory, I then asked her how many air miles her bankers had with BA, at this point she shoved her tail between her legs and slunk away
She said that as the travel manager for a big bank she will from now on be booking her bankers with any other airline than BA. I asked he if her decisions were final and she said no only advisory, I then asked her how many air miles her bankers had with BA, at this point she shoved her tail between her legs and slunk away
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*ankers!
Travel managers are supposed to get the best deal for their company: negotiated fares, override commissions etc.
If the *ankers are allowed the final word, the "travel manager" is not earning his/her keep.
If the *ankers are allowed the final word, the "travel manager" is not earning his/her keep.
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Couldn't agree more
Yes strikes happen and could very well happen to Star or Skyteam carriers at any time. That wasn't my moan. My moan was that IMHO BA didn't do enough to tend to their customers, let alone their 'premium' customers.
Again, IMHO, they held off announcing their intentions - which would have allowed their valuable customers to make other arrangements. In hindsight everything worked out - but what did they really intend on doing. Announce day by day what the cancellations were going to be for tomorrow? When alternatives are few and expensive.
Yes I know and understand that by keeping us better informed would have cost them money - but they were not thinking of us were they?
I'll repeat what I said "I feel very let down by British Airways"
Again, IMHO, they held off announcing their intentions - which would have allowed their valuable customers to make other arrangements. In hindsight everything worked out - but what did they really intend on doing. Announce day by day what the cancellations were going to be for tomorrow? When alternatives are few and expensive.
Yes I know and understand that by keeping us better informed would have cost them money - but they were not thinking of us were they?
I'll repeat what I said "I feel very let down by British Airways"
Have you made any attempt to understand this dispute? Putting aside the fact that it's not been proven in law that BA have altered the cabin crews terms and conditions (the issue is going to court next year) how will the CC's lives, mortgages and families be affected?? Are they being asked to take a pay cut? No. Are they being asked to work longer hours? No. Are there any involuntary redundancies? No. So why the outrage? You do understand what changes BA are proposing.......don't you?
As for the anti-Thatcherite rant, if you really believe that the current banking crisis is her fault 20 years after she left office, then you really are deluded.