BA Cabin Crew Strike Threats (Merged)
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Whilst I have nothing against Cabin Crew, the salaries they are expecting are rather ridiculous. The job is not a profession, yet they are demanding a salary far in excess of NHS Nurses for having done a three week course and then doing a fairly routine job, albiet having some challenges. Supply and demand suggests you pay people what they are worth...
If the other airlines are paying less, how can BA remain competitive.
Unfortunately the damage has been done, and Unite may be responsible for a lot of a damage, which if BA goes under will affect many families.
This strike is the wrong type of action at the wrong time of year, a big mistake has been made and nobody has any sympathy for you.
As other posters have mentioned; our company travel agent has banned all BA flights too, and my last employer who is one of the airlines biggest companies has cancelled all BA flights indefinately...
If the other airlines are paying less, how can BA remain competitive.
Unfortunately the damage has been done, and Unite may be responsible for a lot of a damage, which if BA goes under will affect many families.
This strike is the wrong type of action at the wrong time of year, a big mistake has been made and nobody has any sympathy for you.
As other posters have mentioned; our company travel agent has banned all BA flights too, and my last employer who is one of the airlines biggest companies has cancelled all BA flights indefinately...
apaddyinuk
As SLF caught up in this mess, I would like to add my congratulations to your colleagues who voted no. If my flights proceed, I will be leading the applause to all of them on my flights.
apaddyinuk, your actions have now put you and your co-workers in a perilous position, and less important, but significant to me, my Christmas with my family in doubt.
I say take a long hard look at yourself and what consequences this may have. Many of us over the last year have had to take redefined T&Cs and cuts in pay, just to remain in work. These are difficult times! What makes you so different?
As SLF caught up in this mess, I would like to add my congratulations to your colleagues who voted no. If my flights proceed, I will be leading the applause to all of them on my flights.
apaddyinuk, your actions have now put you and your co-workers in a perilous position, and less important, but significant to me, my Christmas with my family in doubt.
I say take a long hard look at yourself and what consequences this may have. Many of us over the last year have had to take redefined T&Cs and cuts in pay, just to remain in work. These are difficult times! What makes you so different?
I've just accepted a pay cut, but got a new three year contract (as a non BA pilot). I would rather have a job on reduced conditions for a while then be out of work. See how much respect you get when you are unemployed and knocking on doors, see if anyone is matching the conditions on offer at BA as well.
Now is not the right time to be militant over working conditions. Once the current crisis is over and if profits are being made again, feel free to seek improvements.
However the industry has changed, I compare BA cabin crew to printers during the 1980s, vastly over paid and under worked with ridiculous conditions. Then Eddie Shah came along with the TODAY newspaper.......
Didn't some thing similar happen in aviation with Michael O'Leary and a small Irish charter company ?
Now is not the right time to be militant over working conditions. Once the current crisis is over and if profits are being made again, feel free to seek improvements.
However the industry has changed, I compare BA cabin crew to printers during the 1980s, vastly over paid and under worked with ridiculous conditions. Then Eddie Shah came along with the TODAY newspaper.......
Didn't some thing similar happen in aviation with Michael O'Leary and a small Irish charter company ?
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For the record....YOU CANNOT BE SACKED FOR LEGAL STRIKE ACTION
I think its pretty obvious WW is planning to do this - ordinarily he would get slated in the press for carrying out such an action but the spin of stopping people christmases from being ruined will suffice to let BA win the media war and WW to come out of it reputation enhanced with the City
Be careful..
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Paddyintheuk....what a despicable post. I hope you realise that you will probably be out of work in a few days time. When you start working for a loco, if they will have you, you will realise just how lucky you were to have a job with BA!
Im not a moron, Im not stupid, Im not niave
and shame on so many of you for your ignorant comments...
If BA cabin crew want to strike, fair enough.
For chosing to do it at such short notice at one of the busiest times of the year when it will affect families far more than businesses, you and your company deserve everything that happens, and the sooner that BA go under and let a decent airline take their place, the better for everyone.
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BA Christmas strike 'over the top' Unite union boss admits - Telegraph
This says it all if the Unite boss thinks the strike is over the top why doesn't the union just stop digging BAs grave.
This says it all if the Unite boss thinks the strike is over the top why doesn't the union just stop digging BAs grave.
Last edited by srobarts; 16th Dec 2009 at 09:22. Reason: typo
One of the most infuriating things about BA CC attitude is that at a time when unemployment is high and rising and tens of thousands live in constant fear of redundancy, you simply don't recognise how well off you are.
There are many, many people out there who would willingly accept extra hours, extra responsibilities or salary reduction if it kept them in employment. Yet your only concern is maintaining your lifestyle.
The irony is that you're not even having your salary reduced! (Even though your union offered this). You just have to work a little bit harder, just like your competitors, and just as your colleagues at Gatwick have been doing for some while. Can you see why the public see this strike as an act of monumental self indulgence?
Last edited by Andy_S; 16th Dec 2009 at 09:05. Reason: Spelling
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I have worked for easyJet for 6 years, never went for sccm because it doesn't appeal to me.
I have just gone through my past pay slips and the highest I have ever been paid in the last 6 years was £16,000.
For the work I do I think it is a very nice pay deal!! Do I want a bit more, hell yes! So do you know what I am doing about it, resting my Maths GCSE so I all 5 GCSE A-C, then putting my application in for the air force, where over a period of time, I will learn a new skill and will be rewarded financially and my skill and experience improves.
As cabin crew I can not understand why you are doing this to yourselves, have a look at the job market at the minute, there isn't a lot out there.
But on the other hand I must thank you, because I will now be much busier over the xmas period!
I have just gone through my past pay slips and the highest I have ever been paid in the last 6 years was £16,000.
For the work I do I think it is a very nice pay deal!! Do I want a bit more, hell yes! So do you know what I am doing about it, resting my Maths GCSE so I all 5 GCSE A-C, then putting my application in for the air force, where over a period of time, I will learn a new skill and will be rewarded financially and my skill and experience improves.
As cabin crew I can not understand why you are doing this to yourselves, have a look at the job market at the minute, there isn't a lot out there.
But on the other hand I must thank you, because I will now be much busier over the xmas period!
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For the record....YOU CANNOT BE SACKED FOR LEGAL STRIKE ACTION
er - yes you can. A legal tribunal down the road may agree you were unlawfully sacked - but sacked you will have been. For sure compensation will be awarded but you wont get your job back.
I think its pretty obvious WW is planning to do this - ordinarily he would get slated in the press for carrying out such an action but the spin of stopping people christmases from being ruined will suffice to let BA win the media war and WW to come out of it reputation enhanced with the City
Be careful..
er - yes you can. A legal tribunal down the road may agree you were unlawfully sacked - but sacked you will have been. For sure compensation will be awarded but you wont get your job back.
I think its pretty obvious WW is planning to do this - ordinarily he would get slated in the press for carrying out such an action but the spin of stopping people christmases from being ruined will suffice to let BA win the media war and WW to come out of it reputation enhanced with the City
Be careful..
If the sacking threat is made, then surely the reality will be that those who fail to show up for their shift will claim they are sick. Result -most flights are still grounded BUT with thousands of pax in Terminals around the globe clutching their apparently valid tickets ! Will WW risk that one?
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BA cabin crew go for it. You can win. Who cares what the passengers think?
Enjoy a Christmas at home with your family or a management climb down.
Sounds like win/win to me.
Enjoy a Christmas at home with your family or a management climb down.
Sounds like win/win to me.
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Is there a precedent in the UK for such a mass sacking, or at least a threat of it?
If the sacking threat is made, then surely the reality will be that those who fail to show up for their shift will claim they are sick
If the sacking threat is made, then surely the reality will be that those who fail to show up for their shift will claim they are sick
"cabin crew go for it. You can win. Who cares what the passengers think?
Enjoy a Christmas at home with your family or a management climb down"
Enjoy a Christmas at home with your family or a management climb down"
I haven't flown BA in 5 years now, due to old aircraft, less than fantastic service, oh, and two flights that got canceled, due back then to "lack of available crew...", and right now I'm very glad my wife is flying back from the UK on United on the 22nd.
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How about this.
1) Negotiations are spun out for a number of months
2) Changes imposed in November knowing full well the CC will probably vote for strike action.
3) Having had the ballot with a vote for strike action there is a defined window for the strike to take place
4) Much travel over Christmas period is non-Business thus a strike will have minimal effect on the premium fare payers
5) Maximum outrage from the leisure travel passengers ensure plenty of publicity
Coincidence or management manipulation
Cynical ... Moi !!!!!!
1) Negotiations are spun out for a number of months
2) Changes imposed in November knowing full well the CC will probably vote for strike action.
3) Having had the ballot with a vote for strike action there is a defined window for the strike to take place
4) Much travel over Christmas period is non-Business thus a strike will have minimal effect on the premium fare payers
5) Maximum outrage from the leisure travel passengers ensure plenty of publicity
Coincidence or management manipulation
Cynical ... Moi !!!!!!
BA CC Average earnings - the facts
The average pay for BA cabin crew is £29,900, according to the UK Civil Aviation Authority. This compares with an average of £20,200 at easyJet and £14,400 at Virgin Atlantic Airlines. At XL Airways (now closed) UK crew received an average of £6,900.
But wages among BA’s 13,500 cabin crew are far from uniform. The majority work out of Heathrow, where they earn far more than colleagues at Gatwick. Long-haul staff receive several thousand pounds more than those working short-haul routes.
The wages paid to cabin crew on board a single aircraft also vary wildly. The most senior grade, cabin services directors, earn basic pay of £38,006, which is almost £20,000 higher than the average pay of the main crew.
When allowances for overtime and food are included, the most senior crew earn an average of £56,325 on long-haul flights, which includes £18,319 in allowances. Pursers earn £49,810, including £17,670 in allowances. Main crew earn £34,980, including £16,287 in allowances.
This compares with £27,422 paid to BA crew managers working out of Gatwick, £23,778 to pursers flying from there and £18,323 for main crew.
The company says that cabin crew working on a four-day return flight between Heathrow and Tokyo receive £935 in allowances on top of their salary every time they make the trip. Those on a six-day return trip to Shanghai receive £866 in allowances.
But wages among BA’s 13,500 cabin crew are far from uniform. The majority work out of Heathrow, where they earn far more than colleagues at Gatwick. Long-haul staff receive several thousand pounds more than those working short-haul routes.
The wages paid to cabin crew on board a single aircraft also vary wildly. The most senior grade, cabin services directors, earn basic pay of £38,006, which is almost £20,000 higher than the average pay of the main crew.
When allowances for overtime and food are included, the most senior crew earn an average of £56,325 on long-haul flights, which includes £18,319 in allowances. Pursers earn £49,810, including £17,670 in allowances. Main crew earn £34,980, including £16,287 in allowances.
This compares with £27,422 paid to BA crew managers working out of Gatwick, £23,778 to pursers flying from there and £18,323 for main crew.
The company says that cabin crew working on a four-day return flight between Heathrow and Tokyo receive £935 in allowances on top of their salary every time they make the trip. Those on a six-day return trip to Shanghai receive £866 in allowances.
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I still cant believe for one minute that anyone thinks this strike will go ahead, the first sign of a back down by both parties was announced this morning with a meeting at 1530 GMT today.
Strike will be suspended pending further talks....just wait and see.
Strike will be suspended pending further talks....just wait and see.
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I doubt this will be sorted unless one side capitulates and both sides have mandates not to capitulate. Seems like both sides are playing to the court of public opinion, BA have been doing this from the start of course, just took the union a bit to catch up.
If BA capitulates they are stuffed. If the cabin crew capitulate then BA will still not have won as they have the other employee groups to deal with. And even if BA sort their employee cost-base problems out, the elephant in the room is the still the pension deficit.....
BA have The Establishment on their side which might be what makes the difference.
If BA capitulates they are stuffed. If the cabin crew capitulate then BA will still not have won as they have the other employee groups to deal with. And even if BA sort their employee cost-base problems out, the elephant in the room is the still the pension deficit.....
BA have The Establishment on their side which might be what makes the difference.
In any Industrial Action, the individuals involved "dig their trenches" and effectively closer thier ears to the other side.
They also become emotive, and far more attached to the "cause" than to any rational reason for doing what they are doing. I'm afraid that it is not nice to hear the word "hate", but parties to serious IR disputes do tend to grow more hateful to each other over time.
(All this is well researched - Google John Purcell, who's forgotten more about IR than most of us will ever learn).
However, in the case of some BA CC - but not many, I guess, their distance from the reality that their pax currently "enjoy" is astounding.
There is one in The Times this morning with arrogance that knows no boundaries. "This is BA, not Easyjet, you know".
Talk about living in the past! Easyjet's Cabin service in the back end is, and has always been, far superior to BA's. I've experienced both, and EZY's is much better.
BA CC like that need to fly EZY to find out some facts. ...........and, of course, EZY is at least as safe as BA, and has newer/better planes.
They also become emotive, and far more attached to the "cause" than to any rational reason for doing what they are doing. I'm afraid that it is not nice to hear the word "hate", but parties to serious IR disputes do tend to grow more hateful to each other over time.
(All this is well researched - Google John Purcell, who's forgotten more about IR than most of us will ever learn).
However, in the case of some BA CC - but not many, I guess, their distance from the reality that their pax currently "enjoy" is astounding.
There is one in The Times this morning with arrogance that knows no boundaries. "This is BA, not Easyjet, you know".
Talk about living in the past! Easyjet's Cabin service in the back end is, and has always been, far superior to BA's. I've experienced both, and EZY's is much better.
BA CC like that need to fly EZY to find out some facts. ...........and, of course, EZY is at least as safe as BA, and has newer/better planes.
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As I'm sitting here just about to cancel my flight over Xmas with BA to JER and booking with FlyBe at a much greater cost as we are now so close note to self now as SLF.....Never ever book with BA again even if they are giving away the seat which they practically were when I booked.
The service on FlyBe on this route is delivered with much better grace and much newer aircraft but for a 35 minute flight I don't care about that. I just want to get from A to B reliably and preferably cheaply. I put price above reliability on this occasion.....never again.
Wake up BA crew who voted yes!! You are nothing special. As CC we are all paid to be on board for what we know and can do in an emergency situation. As such we are all trained to the same standards as laid down by the CAA so therefore should all be paid the same according to our grade.
Granted a BA PU works a lot harder physically on the service on board than I do.....I am an EZY PU. My earnings last year were just under £22,000 including allowances but some of my role equates to what your CSD's do being in overall charge.
BA are not even trying to cut your PU pay of nearly £50K they are just asking that you work a bit harder. Some would say this is working Smarter.
Wake up People......the dinosaurs were obliterated by one meteoric strike. Their seems to be a lot of dinosaurs at BA......!
The service on FlyBe on this route is delivered with much better grace and much newer aircraft but for a 35 minute flight I don't care about that. I just want to get from A to B reliably and preferably cheaply. I put price above reliability on this occasion.....never again.
Wake up BA crew who voted yes!! You are nothing special. As CC we are all paid to be on board for what we know and can do in an emergency situation. As such we are all trained to the same standards as laid down by the CAA so therefore should all be paid the same according to our grade.
Granted a BA PU works a lot harder physically on the service on board than I do.....I am an EZY PU. My earnings last year were just under £22,000 including allowances but some of my role equates to what your CSD's do being in overall charge.
BA are not even trying to cut your PU pay of nearly £50K they are just asking that you work a bit harder. Some would say this is working Smarter.
Wake up People......the dinosaurs were obliterated by one meteoric strike. Their seems to be a lot of dinosaurs at BA......!