BA Cabin Crew Strike Threats (Merged)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Abu Dhabi
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The damage is already done!
Whether the strike happens or not the damage has already started and will cost BA Millions in the short term and who knows what the long term potential damage will be.
The loss of confidence and reputation damage will take a long time to recover aand once passengers on long haul have seen the real quality of the likes of Qatar and Etihad they will not return.
The strike if it happens will just be the cherry on the cake.
The loss of confidence and reputation damage will take a long time to recover aand once passengers on long haul have seen the real quality of the likes of Qatar and Etihad they will not return.
The strike if it happens will just be the cherry on the cake.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue, 11701
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA Low Cost "Openskies"
At least if BA goes burst that's gonna (finally) fill in the BA Low Cost branch: "Openskies"... everything is planned from the beginning guys
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think this will go down as one of WW's greatest moments.
The fact that these are hard times for the airline business could actually mean that the impact of a long drawn strike now will be less costly to the Company in pure cash terms than in a boom period, where the value of the cancelled tickets (refunds) would be greater due to the higher yields.
It is analogous to when you are removing a band-aid, you can either try to tease it off and suffer, or else give it one mighty tug and get on with it!
It seems that BASSA have painted themselves in to an untenable position. If they go ahead with strike they will lose any remaining public support which will give the Board, backed by an enraged travelling public and a media who will happily fan the flames, unprecedented power to sever BASSA at its roots.
The positions in the economy cabins will be gladly filled by the hundreds of cabin crew who have been working at Low Cost airlines who would probably see an increment in conditions and pay with a new contract offered by BA even if it would be a fraction of the current package. Besides the glamour of working with Big Airways they can aspire to new "perks" such as layovers and upgrading to the premium cabins which was not an option with the Ryanairs of this world.
The vacancy in the premium cabin can be quickly filled by European staff who are currently working with the Middle Eastern airlines and are probably looking for a job back home after the average three year stint as an expat cabin crew in those airlines. These cabin crew are highly trained in safety, service and usually have impeccable grooming. The added benefit is that their average age will also be much less than the current BA Staff servicing the Premium Cabins.
No one likes to see a category of colleagues ground down to crumbs but, alas, I think WW will be making the shareholders very happy this Chistmas!
The fact that these are hard times for the airline business could actually mean that the impact of a long drawn strike now will be less costly to the Company in pure cash terms than in a boom period, where the value of the cancelled tickets (refunds) would be greater due to the higher yields.
It is analogous to when you are removing a band-aid, you can either try to tease it off and suffer, or else give it one mighty tug and get on with it!
It seems that BASSA have painted themselves in to an untenable position. If they go ahead with strike they will lose any remaining public support which will give the Board, backed by an enraged travelling public and a media who will happily fan the flames, unprecedented power to sever BASSA at its roots.
The positions in the economy cabins will be gladly filled by the hundreds of cabin crew who have been working at Low Cost airlines who would probably see an increment in conditions and pay with a new contract offered by BA even if it would be a fraction of the current package. Besides the glamour of working with Big Airways they can aspire to new "perks" such as layovers and upgrading to the premium cabins which was not an option with the Ryanairs of this world.
The vacancy in the premium cabin can be quickly filled by European staff who are currently working with the Middle Eastern airlines and are probably looking for a job back home after the average three year stint as an expat cabin crew in those airlines. These cabin crew are highly trained in safety, service and usually have impeccable grooming. The added benefit is that their average age will also be much less than the current BA Staff servicing the Premium Cabins.
No one likes to see a category of colleagues ground down to crumbs but, alas, I think WW will be making the shareholders very happy this Chistmas!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hunched over a keyboard
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But nobody is under any illusion here are they.
SOP's are in force.
BA wants to reduce Cabin Crew terms and conditions
BA prepares a pool of qualified and partially qualified people who are willing to work for less.
BA forces current cabin Crew into crippling strike, thus alienating travelling public at a very sensitive time.
Public outcry at the insensitivity of Cabin Crew.
BA sacks the lot, employs the new lot waiting in the wings, hey presto, job done, trebles all around.
How wide of the mark am I pray tell
SOP's are in force.
BA wants to reduce Cabin Crew terms and conditions
BA prepares a pool of qualified and partially qualified people who are willing to work for less.
BA forces current cabin Crew into crippling strike, thus alienating travelling public at a very sensitive time.
Public outcry at the insensitivity of Cabin Crew.
BA sacks the lot, employs the new lot waiting in the wings, hey presto, job done, trebles all around.
How wide of the mark am I pray tell
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Out of interest, does anyone have a list of all the times BA staff have striked or threatened to strike over the past few years? The media don't seem to have sorted out the background pieces such as this yet.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a shame it had to end like this. Maybe others will sit up and take notice of the chain of events, talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Well, if there is a BA left after the New Year, there are plenty of "CC" waiting in the pool over at EZY...
Well, if there is a BA left after the New Year, there are plenty of "CC" waiting in the pool over at EZY...
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: leeds
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MFALK, IMHO I have to agree. WW has been brought in to do what he does best and that is break unions. He is a relatively young FTSE 100 CEO and will not want to tarnish his career so early on. As demonstrated previously with the open skies case he took BALPA over a barrel and I can't help but think UNITE/BASSA are soon to meet a far worse fate.
I feel very sorry for the passengers effected however while CSD's and old contract cabin crew still command salaries of £55,000 plus I truly believe the company have been left with no alternative. I also believe when people outside the BA bubble learn of these salaries public support for UNITE will be non existent. At the end of the day a Cabin Service Director is still and rightly so classed as an unskilled job! (one of the most highly paid unskilled jobs in Europe)
I feel very sorry for the passengers effected however while CSD's and old contract cabin crew still command salaries of £55,000 plus I truly believe the company have been left with no alternative. I also believe when people outside the BA bubble learn of these salaries public support for UNITE will be non existent. At the end of the day a Cabin Service Director is still and rightly so classed as an unskilled job! (one of the most highly paid unskilled jobs in Europe)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bridport
Age: 49
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wonderful!! I don't know enough on the internal politics at BA to pass comment. What I can comment on though is that my 4 year old is looking forward to seeing Mickey Mouse this Christmas at Disney but instead has the possibility of seeing the inside of an airport instead. Whoever is to blame, if he doesn't get to go, perhaps they could explain to him why not!
On another note, I do have to comment on the shameful pieve of Journalism on the radio earlier where the correspondant apparantly ripped up his tickets saying they were now worthless!! Perhaps maybe but let's live in hope for God's sake!
On another note, I do have to comment on the shameful pieve of Journalism on the radio earlier where the correspondant apparantly ripped up his tickets saying they were now worthless!! Perhaps maybe but let's live in hope for God's sake!
all the BA staff on their Annual 'free flights' will not be happy!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RIP BA, terms and conditions need to flex to the overiding conditions.
BA cabin crew would it seem would rather be unemployed than having a job on modified conditions. Probably explains why they are cabin crew and not up front.
BA cabin crew would it seem would rather be unemployed than having a job on modified conditions. Probably explains why they are cabin crew and not up front.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cheshire, England
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just some thoughts, from a long-suffering shareholder, a regular SLF and an ex-BA fan.
1. Years ago, if the magic words ‘British Airways’ featured on your cv, and you applied for a cabin job with another airline, you went straight to the top of the list for recruitment.
2. Now, if you have the magic words ‘British Airways’ on your cv, you go right to the bottom of the list. After today, you probably won’t even make the list – and that same brush probably tars all BA cabin employees, not just the Heathrow Airways crowd.
Shame. And then . . .
3. Year ago, when I told people I had bought a stack of BA shares, I was proud of my investment. Quality company, quality staff, quality service.
4. Today, having suffered years of no dividends and a similar fate if BA has any future, when I tell them I own BA shares, they laugh at my misfortune, and my stupidity . They’re right. Today, BA cabin staff have proved they don’t give a Christmas fig about their shareholders.
So, to the Cabin Crew. Let’s see what happens when we SLF vote long-term with our feet, BA has to dispense with your services, and you’re out on that tough job market in competition with your work-hungry colleagues from RYA, EZJ, Globespan and the rest.
To Unite. Let’s see what happens when all those BA CC can’t afford to pay your subs any longer.
And to WW. I don’t like your style, but you’ve done what it said on your tin when the Board bought you. You’ve told the truth, you’ve got tough, and you’ve hit back at one of the most ‘turkey votes for Christmas’ moments in the history of the airline business.
Turkeys ? Even those flightless birds would have seen what’s coming . . .
1. Years ago, if the magic words ‘British Airways’ featured on your cv, and you applied for a cabin job with another airline, you went straight to the top of the list for recruitment.
2. Now, if you have the magic words ‘British Airways’ on your cv, you go right to the bottom of the list. After today, you probably won’t even make the list – and that same brush probably tars all BA cabin employees, not just the Heathrow Airways crowd.
Shame. And then . . .
3. Year ago, when I told people I had bought a stack of BA shares, I was proud of my investment. Quality company, quality staff, quality service.
4. Today, having suffered years of no dividends and a similar fate if BA has any future, when I tell them I own BA shares, they laugh at my misfortune, and my stupidity . They’re right. Today, BA cabin staff have proved they don’t give a Christmas fig about their shareholders.
So, to the Cabin Crew. Let’s see what happens when we SLF vote long-term with our feet, BA has to dispense with your services, and you’re out on that tough job market in competition with your work-hungry colleagues from RYA, EZJ, Globespan and the rest.
To Unite. Let’s see what happens when all those BA CC can’t afford to pay your subs any longer.
And to WW. I don’t like your style, but you’ve done what it said on your tin when the Board bought you. You’ve told the truth, you’ve got tough, and you’ve hit back at one of the most ‘turkey votes for Christmas’ moments in the history of the airline business.
Turkeys ? Even those flightless birds would have seen what’s coming . . .
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Eas Anglia
Age: 64
Posts: 812
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They long abdicated any "national airline responsibility" by centralising at Heathrow and stuffing the regions this is particularly true at Manchester !
If it wasnt bad enough to pull their own services they then put pressure on other airlines to do likewise Qantas, Cathay and Iberia to name but three !
...BA can go hang as far as i'm concerned and if the strike brings about their downfall, so be it !
They deserve all they get !
Cheers
If it wasnt bad enough to pull their own services they then put pressure on other airlines to do likewise Qantas, Cathay and Iberia to name but three !
...BA can go hang as far as i'm concerned and if the strike brings about their downfall, so be it !
They deserve all they get !
Cheers
Does Willie Walsh really work for Ryanair, wrecked Aer Lingus and now BA.
Sad to see this happening and though I have sympathy with cabin staff they are going about his the wrong way at the wrong time.
Equally sad to see people on here, ordinary working people even if some have aspirations to be called something else, turning on others with such vitriol.
BA managemnt are far far from blameless either on this issue and especially pensions, pension holidays, failure to deal with deficeits when times were good so as to cream off bigger bonuses.
I hope some sensible resolutions found for the sake of all at BA and the thousands around LHR who depend on BA for their living too.
Not a good day
Sad to see this happening and though I have sympathy with cabin staff they are going about his the wrong way at the wrong time.
Equally sad to see people on here, ordinary working people even if some have aspirations to be called something else, turning on others with such vitriol.
BA managemnt are far far from blameless either on this issue and especially pensions, pension holidays, failure to deal with deficeits when times were good so as to cream off bigger bonuses.
I hope some sensible resolutions found for the sake of all at BA and the thousands around LHR who depend on BA for their living too.
Not a good day
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK, Paris, Peckham, New York
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
55 large for cabin crew working how many days a month..wow I didnt know that.
If BA goes and a new BA lite emerges that will be sh*it for everyone. 10,000s will go. Imagine all the dead wood getting culled. All the services that could be contracted out? 1000s in cargo to be instantly 3rd party contracters, probably the same for baggage, ground support services, drivers, all no longer part of BA and yes you will lose pensions, flights, perks the whole kit and cabodle.
I hope unite think about that.
If BA goes and a new BA lite emerges that will be sh*it for everyone. 10,000s will go. Imagine all the dead wood getting culled. All the services that could be contracted out? 1000s in cargo to be instantly 3rd party contracters, probably the same for baggage, ground support services, drivers, all no longer part of BA and yes you will lose pensions, flights, perks the whole kit and cabodle.
I hope unite think about that.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Willy Walsh chose the timing of the forced action - implementation was the 16th November; work it out. Legally forces the first strike date to be the 21st December. (And only the month to conclude the business.)
No one wants to strike - and the crew care more about the passengers than the management. Wages have been well over estimated in the press. Yes the money is ok (and on a par with airlines of equivalent status; even a little below - BA don't compete with Ryan Air!) but what would you think if you went to work on Friday and your boss said that sorry, you should be going home tonight but it'll be next Thursday before we can get you home?
Maybe people shouldnt trust the BA propaganda machine? Just a thought. And ours aren't the only plans to be messed up - sure that some of the crew should have been home with their families aswell - not stuck in places, some that don't celebrate Christmas at all.
Good luck to them all. Hope Willy gets his comeuppance.
No one wants to strike - and the crew care more about the passengers than the management. Wages have been well over estimated in the press. Yes the money is ok (and on a par with airlines of equivalent status; even a little below - BA don't compete with Ryan Air!) but what would you think if you went to work on Friday and your boss said that sorry, you should be going home tonight but it'll be next Thursday before we can get you home?
Maybe people shouldnt trust the BA propaganda machine? Just a thought. And ours aren't the only plans to be messed up - sure that some of the crew should have been home with their families aswell - not stuck in places, some that don't celebrate Christmas at all.
Good luck to them all. Hope Willy gets his comeuppance.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LHR
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They deserve whatever willie has in store.
Unfortunately I'm not at all surprised by either the % YES vote or the reaction by BASSA.
I'm sick to the teeth of seeing this company ruled by a bunch of prehistoric CC industrial limitations that cripple us whenever there's the slightest hint of disruption.
Even when things are running smoothly we are forced to compete at a disadvantage as we paying more crew a lot more money than any of our competitors.
It's about time the CC were brought back to reality. This was never going to be particularly pleasant, however it could have been a lot less painful than anything Willie has in store for them now. There has been a lack of willingness on BASSAs part to acknowledge the fact that as a group, they are massively overpaid and underworked, and the fact that the this needs to change for the company to have a viable future. They have been completely unwilling to enter meaningful negotiations with the management (contrary to anything that UNITE idiot Len McCluskey has to say).
The result is what we have now.
Any sympathy I had for the CC has vanished - everyone who pays their £18/month gives BASSA their power and they are all responsible for the actions of their union. I hope Willie now brings their Ts&Cs to market rate + 10% (i.e. decimates them for a lot of crew) and, ideally anyone who strikes should lose their job. God knows there are thousands of qualified, willing and capable people out there who would jump at the chance of a 'New Fleet' contract.
Can he do it? - I don't know, but I am hopeful, I certainly have a lot more confidence in WW than I do in BASSA. Fingers crossed I still have job in 2010.
I'm sick to the teeth of seeing this company ruled by a bunch of prehistoric CC industrial limitations that cripple us whenever there's the slightest hint of disruption.
Even when things are running smoothly we are forced to compete at a disadvantage as we paying more crew a lot more money than any of our competitors.
It's about time the CC were brought back to reality. This was never going to be particularly pleasant, however it could have been a lot less painful than anything Willie has in store for them now. There has been a lack of willingness on BASSAs part to acknowledge the fact that as a group, they are massively overpaid and underworked, and the fact that the this needs to change for the company to have a viable future. They have been completely unwilling to enter meaningful negotiations with the management (contrary to anything that UNITE idiot Len McCluskey has to say).
The result is what we have now.
Any sympathy I had for the CC has vanished - everyone who pays their £18/month gives BASSA their power and they are all responsible for the actions of their union. I hope Willie now brings their Ts&Cs to market rate + 10% (i.e. decimates them for a lot of crew) and, ideally anyone who strikes should lose their job. God knows there are thousands of qualified, willing and capable people out there who would jump at the chance of a 'New Fleet' contract.
Can he do it? - I don't know, but I am hopeful, I certainly have a lot more confidence in WW than I do in BASSA. Fingers crossed I still have job in 2010.
Controversial, moi?
baggersup
The pension deficit would not be massively improved by losing all the existing CC for the simple reason their pensions are based on their LOW basic salaries. Their earnings are massively dependent on the 1001 extra payments from having bunk lights stuck on to shorthaul reducing a turnaround time from its normal stupid level.
pax britanica
Please stop quoting the pension holiday myth. It is the LAW that you cannot continue paying in to a fully funded scheme. The last pension holiday was compulsory because APS was fully funded, BA have never had a pension contributio holiday from NAPS.
OZOS
You mean we should trust your union's propoganda instead? If I was in BASSA (UNITE) I would be looking for some heads to roll the way they have misled you and are leading you to oblivion. Some CC even think they still get paid when on strike!
The pension deficit would not be massively improved by losing all the existing CC for the simple reason their pensions are based on their LOW basic salaries. Their earnings are massively dependent on the 1001 extra payments from having bunk lights stuck on to shorthaul reducing a turnaround time from its normal stupid level.
pax britanica
Please stop quoting the pension holiday myth. It is the LAW that you cannot continue paying in to a fully funded scheme. The last pension holiday was compulsory because APS was fully funded, BA have never had a pension contributio holiday from NAPS.
OZOS
Maybe people shouldnt trust the BA propaganda machine?
