Passenger use of GPS
Thread Starter
Passenger use of GPS
Can someone tell me what the general policy is these days regarding the use of GPS devices by passengers during flight? Tried to search forum but couldn't find the 'search' option (I know I am going to regret admitting that)
I know you're optimistic but you might have trouble getting a decent signal inside an airliner.
General policy for any electronic device is in the cruise only, but people still use video cameras during take off and landing etc.
Personally I can't see using a GPS in flight being a problem as it is only a receiver but the rules is rules.
Regards,
BH.
General policy for any electronic device is in the cruise only, but people still use video cameras during take off and landing etc.
Personally I can't see using a GPS in flight being a problem as it is only a receiver but the rules is rules.
Regards,
BH.
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Variable...
It seems to be very variable between airlines as to whether the use of GPS units is permitted in-flight. They do, at least, usually list them in the inflight devices information these days.
As to whether they work or not, it can take quite a while to get a fix (from a cold start, I expect because downloading the almanac is marginal) but once fixed the position updating seems to work OK. It's usually necessary to hold the receiver by the window, and at the window most GPS units seem to see 4-5 satellites.
On airlines which permitted it at the times I was onboard, I've used both hand-held dedicated GPS units and GPS units in a mobile phone and got a position fix, as well as a plausible ground speed and altitude. I should note that the phone I used was capable of having the mobile phone transmitter offline ("flight mode") while having the GPS receiver on - clearly one would not want to use a phone that cannot receive GPS without transmitting mobile phone signals as that would be against regulations.
As to whether they work or not, it can take quite a while to get a fix (from a cold start, I expect because downloading the almanac is marginal) but once fixed the position updating seems to work OK. It's usually necessary to hold the receiver by the window, and at the window most GPS units seem to see 4-5 satellites.
On airlines which permitted it at the times I was onboard, I've used both hand-held dedicated GPS units and GPS units in a mobile phone and got a position fix, as well as a plausible ground speed and altitude. I should note that the phone I used was capable of having the mobile phone transmitter offline ("flight mode") while having the GPS receiver on - clearly one would not want to use a phone that cannot receive GPS without transmitting mobile phone signals as that would be against regulations.
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Some people have made it work! I assume he must have had the antenna near the window (as the photo suggests).
If you are a google earth fan you might have seen this ...
Ogle Earth: Tracklog to timeline with KML's <TimeStamp>
If you are a google earth fan you might have seen this ...
Ogle Earth: Tracklog to timeline with KML's <TimeStamp>
Thread Starter
Thanks for the replies
...read about using GPS in some magazine or other, apparently works if pressed to window as suggested above. Probably if used immediately before flight, acquistion might not be too long. Just don't want to be shouted at by CC as I'm easily embarrassed !
If you don't want to be embarrassed ask the C/C if you can use it and they may ask the Tech Crew and if you get the nod then great if not then read a book. 
Regards,
BH.
Regards,
BH.
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I asked for permission to use it on Aer Lingus, pre 9/11.
CC asked capt. and I was invited to demonstrate GPS in flight deck.
Stayed all the way to Dublin.
An it worked surprisingly well, despite coating on windshield - mind you it had a cable antenna, wchih may have helped.
CC asked capt. and I was invited to demonstrate GPS in flight deck.
Stayed all the way to Dublin.
An it worked surprisingly well, despite coating on windshield - mind you it had a cable antenna, wchih may have helped.
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Just watch out for a possible MAPSHIFT. Most hand held GPSs are not designed for the high speeds we fly at and can experience a significant map shift. This will be irreversible and damages your handheld.
In all cases always ask the CC if you could use it, if you want to avoid unnecessary problems!
In all cases always ask the CC if you could use it, if you want to avoid unnecessary problems!
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In all cases always ask the CC if you could use it, if you want to avoid unnecessary problems!
If the reason is that the CC are not aware of that and must not be alarmed, it would be a good idea to tell them.
It's far too easy to say "Ask permission", when doing so is actually totally unnecessary. You'll be recommending asking permission to read a book next, just in case the CC think that's a dangerous activity.
Of course GPS usually doesn't work in the cabin, and the MAPSHIFT problem is a real one. But that's not the point! There's no reason to stop anyone trying.
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10DowningSt
One reason for asking the CC is a quaint old-fashioned thing called courtesy.
Sadly, most CC don't share the depth of knowledge about GPS that you do. Given that both technology, and the specifications of models within established product ranges change all the time, it is unreasonable to expect CC to be au fait with each individual product. You may be an expert, or you may just have read the manual during taxi-out: CC have no method for assessing your individual level of expertise or the specification of the product. They do, however, have a reasonably good working knowledge of the various regulations and policies that are in force at the time. Those regulations and policies are in place to attempt to ensure a safe journey for yourself and your fellow passengers - they have been created by people whose depth of knowledge of aviation safety can be publicly demonstrated. How dare you sneer at those people, such as Cabin Crew who work to keep you safe.
Speaking of expertise - may we all know yours. You have stated that a GPS poses "no more risk to aircraft safety than a Biro pen, and perhaps less than an Ipod". Is this an approximation of the facts, totally accurate or an educated guess? I'd suggest that the latter is likely to be the case, but I stand to be corrected. Given your attitude to CC, it would seem likely that you're not actually a pilot either - meaning that your statement about asking permission is nothing more than a petty rant from somebody who simply resents any kind of imposition being placed on them by anybody or anything else.
Parents of 2 year olds will be familiar with this level of behavior.
Sadly, most CC don't share the depth of knowledge about GPS that you do. Given that both technology, and the specifications of models within established product ranges change all the time, it is unreasonable to expect CC to be au fait with each individual product. You may be an expert, or you may just have read the manual during taxi-out: CC have no method for assessing your individual level of expertise or the specification of the product. They do, however, have a reasonably good working knowledge of the various regulations and policies that are in force at the time. Those regulations and policies are in place to attempt to ensure a safe journey for yourself and your fellow passengers - they have been created by people whose depth of knowledge of aviation safety can be publicly demonstrated. How dare you sneer at those people, such as Cabin Crew who work to keep you safe.
Speaking of expertise - may we all know yours. You have stated that a GPS poses "no more risk to aircraft safety than a Biro pen, and perhaps less than an Ipod". Is this an approximation of the facts, totally accurate or an educated guess? I'd suggest that the latter is likely to be the case, but I stand to be corrected. Given your attitude to CC, it would seem likely that you're not actually a pilot either - meaning that your statement about asking permission is nothing more than a petty rant from somebody who simply resents any kind of imposition being placed on them by anybody or anything else.
Parents of 2 year olds will be familiar with this level of behavior.
Paxing All Over The World
10DowningSt
Actually, they are not! Every single item of electronics gives out radio frequency signals. They might be at a low power level, but the risk is not incidental.
Mr Optimistic The forum FAQ has links to threads about the use of electronic apparatus whilst on board and as TS says, ask the CC.
They are electronically inert
Mr Optimistic The forum FAQ has links to threads about the use of electronic apparatus whilst on board and as TS says, ask the CC.
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I left my Garmin Nuvi on by accident in my jacket pocket placed in the overhead bin on a recent trip from SFO-LHR. On returning home, there was a nice display of our track outbound and up over the Great Lakes. The trace stopped around YYZ, where I guess the battery power gave up.
I also got a new record high speed on my database ... 697mph
For non accidental use, I'd ask the cabin crew of course
I also got a new record high speed on my database ... 697mph
For non accidental use, I'd ask the cabin crew of course
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Have successfully used mine, once in the cruise (and with the benefit of a window seat) routing BFS-NCE and return. Passes the time nicely, especially if the weather conditions allow a view of the ground. Max Speed recorded was 555mph (not as good as the 697 mentioned above mind you), and best fun of all was as we flew directly over the speed camera locations. Almost constant "pinging" from the satnav as we persisted in exceeding the various 30mph/40mph/50mph speed limits from overhead Folkestone to Blackpool.
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10W 697 mph? Assuming a cruising speed of Mach 0.83, that equates to (counts on fingers) a 150mph tailwind. Not impossible, but pretty extreme even in the jet stream. Or is my arithmetic letting me down (again)?
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Pax Vobiscum - I've flown back from the states in a jet stream of around 150mph before - the moving map showed a ground speed of 720+mph for a good portion of the flight (the max was around 735mph), so definitely not impossible!
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Jet stream velocity
Pax Vobiscum: I've also been lucky enough to arrive at JFK a full 1 hour early from SFO, thanks to a helpful jet stream (tail wind about 150mph AFAIK).
In fact, before I fly I have a quick look at weather.co.uk, which includes jet stream maps (sorry, I can't get a permanent URL for the map, look under "Maps"). It's useful for guesstimating delays, and even though I always buckle up (of course!), also sometimes gives a hint of where you might get a bit of turbulence.
I expect others here will know where to get better maps than those though.
Mike
In fact, before I fly I have a quick look at weather.co.uk, which includes jet stream maps (sorry, I can't get a permanent URL for the map, look under "Maps"). It's useful for guesstimating delays, and even though I always buckle up (of course!), also sometimes gives a hint of where you might get a bit of turbulence.
I expect others here will know where to get better maps than those though.
Mike