The liquids ban - some sanity (2)
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The liquids ban - some sanity (2)
The original thread seems to have been locked without explanation, so I had to start a new one.
There's an excellent comment piece in today's Guardian exposing the nonsense of the liquids ban (or, rather, the way in which it is implemented). Full article here.
Some short extracts:
There's an excellent comment piece in today's Guardian exposing the nonsense of the liquids ban (or, rather, the way in which it is implemented). Full article here.
Some short extracts:
If you're caught at airport security with a bomb or a gun, the screeners aren't just going to take them away from you. They're going to call the police... No terrorist is going to base his plot on getting a gun through airport security if there's a decent chance of getting caught, because the consequences of getting caught are too severe.
Contrast that with a terrorist plot that requires a 12-oz bottle of liquid. If some terrorists try to bring their liquid bomb through airport security and the screeners catch them - like they caught me with my opaque bottle labelled as "saline" - the terrorists can simply try again. In fact, they can try again and again. They can keep trying until they succeed. Because there are no consequences to trying and failing, the screeners have to be 100% effective. Even if the screeners slip up only once every hundred times, the plot can succeed...
Those in charge of airport security need to make a choice: either a 4oz bottle of saline is a potential bomb, or it isn't. If it is dangerous, treat is as dangerous and treat anyone who tries to bring one on as potentially dangerous. If it's not dangerous, stop prohibiting it from being taken onto airplanes
Contrast that with a terrorist plot that requires a 12-oz bottle of liquid. If some terrorists try to bring their liquid bomb through airport security and the screeners catch them - like they caught me with my opaque bottle labelled as "saline" - the terrorists can simply try again. In fact, they can try again and again. They can keep trying until they succeed. Because there are no consequences to trying and failing, the screeners have to be 100% effective. Even if the screeners slip up only once every hundred times, the plot can succeed...
Those in charge of airport security need to make a choice: either a 4oz bottle of saline is a potential bomb, or it isn't. If it is dangerous, treat is as dangerous and treat anyone who tries to bring one on as potentially dangerous. If it's not dangerous, stop prohibiting it from being taken onto airplanes
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two questions . . . . . . . . . .
The original thread seems to have been locked without explanation
Second question - even simpler, I hope : "Why is this forum called PASSENGERS AND SLF ? " I thought those two terms were synonymous !
On the liquids subject, my daughter is an immigration officer at EGCC. She always used to take a yoghurt with her for lunch. The yoghurt pot is more than 100ml; their office is airside, only accessible through Security; she now has to buy her yoghurt airside, at TWICE the price !
Everything is under control.
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If it is dangerous, treat is as dangerous and treat anyone who tries to bring one on as potentially dangerous. If it's not dangerous, stop prohibiting it from being taken onto airplanes
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Obvious - terrorists will have learnt that if they try to go through security with a tub of hair gel, some SPF15 lip balm and a can of soft drink often enough eventually it will bring down an airliner.
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still unanswered . . . . . . . ! !
Do please enlighten us - it isn't clear to me
On second thoughts, even then you've got to be a real tyrant just unceremoniously to close down a discussion on such an important aviation topic without any notice or warning. I've noticed that, for example, in R&N if a heated debate seems to be getting off-track the mods warn folk, and encourage adherence to the subject first. But not here, it seems !
In relation to the fluid debate, has anyone ever suggested just HOW a potential terrorist could get any kind of offensive or harmful liquid into an UNOPENED can or tin, or a bottle with a "crown" cap ? OK, I suppose a bottle with a screw cap just could be subject to tampering; but those others . . . . . Coke, Fanta, beer, etc ?
And my other trivial question still hasn't been answered either . . . . . ! !
Second question - even simpler, I hope : "Why is this forum called PASSENGERS AND SLF ? " I thought those two terms were synonymous !
Heard a good one from Tours Val de Loire (TUF) this week.. We're holidaying in France, dept 36 at the moment and my dad and his mrs came over from UK, Ryanair STN - TUF, for a few days. During the course of the visit, mrs dad bought a small, decorative but functional ceramic olive oil dispenser - I am sure you know the sort of thing women like to clutter up the kitchen with.
It being ceramic, she wrapped it in some paper and had it in her hand carry, however, the security man at TUF on Friday 24/10, il dit "NON!", so in the bin it went.
WTF?? Empty decorative ceramic olive oil dispensers can be used as weapons?? Good job it was only 7 euros, but all the same seemed a bit much.
It being ceramic, she wrapped it in some paper and had it in her hand carry, however, the security man at TUF on Friday 24/10, il dit "NON!", so in the bin it went.
WTF?? Empty decorative ceramic olive oil dispensers can be used as weapons?? Good job it was only 7 euros, but all the same seemed a bit much.
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Originally Posted by Rush2112
WTF?? Empty decorative ceramic olive oil dispensers can be used as weapons??
Either that object was dangerous, in which case the passenger carrying it should have been detained and questioned, or it wasn't, in which case there was no reason to confiscate it.
The entire issue of airport security is a joke.
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AMEandPPL
Some in this forum are Passengers and some are merely Self Loading Freight - you can make up your own mind as to which category a particular poster falls into ... 
Why is this forum called PASSENGERS AND SLF? I thought those two terms were synonymous !
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I do hope Mrs Dad smashed it as it went into the bin.
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A run-in with security....
I approached the security machine and carefully emptied my pockets of change, pens and anything else that might be used to inflict terror on my fellow passengers. Off came my belt and shoes and out of the bag slid my PC. Triumphantly through the arch without a beep and to the other side to collect the my belongings. Suddenly, the red light flashed and a female security person came towards me holding my roll-on bag. "Do you have any liquids in here?" she asked quietly. To my embarassment, I realised that I had forgotten to take out my toothpaste and after-shave. "Umm..I'm afraid that yes, I think I have.." I mumbled.
"Please open the bag" she said, again very quietly. I found my wash bag and shamefacedly handed it to the young girl. "Wait here" she said firmly. I watched as she walked away and disappeared into a back room. Thirty seconds later she came back. "Here you are Sir" she said, just as quietly as before whilst placing my wash bag and a plastic bag with my aftershave and toothpaste back into my roll-on. As she zipped the bag, she looked at me and, with a warm smile said "Have a nice flight".
A dream.......?
No, Narita airport Tokyo.
"Please open the bag" she said, again very quietly. I found my wash bag and shamefacedly handed it to the young girl. "Wait here" she said firmly. I watched as she walked away and disappeared into a back room. Thirty seconds later she came back. "Here you are Sir" she said, just as quietly as before whilst placing my wash bag and a plastic bag with my aftershave and toothpaste back into my roll-on. As she zipped the bag, she looked at me and, with a warm smile said "Have a nice flight".
A dream.......?
No, Narita airport Tokyo.
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Narita some years ago: when leaving, the immigration officer noticed her own entry stamp on my passport and asks me if I did remembered her.
Of course I did remember this nice young lady officer. She seemed pleased with the reply and more smiles were exchanged. Security or duty of law does not mean giving up niceness.
We all have much, much to learn and improve.
Of course I did remember this nice young lady officer. She seemed pleased with the reply and more smiles were exchanged. Security or duty of law does not mean giving up niceness.
We all have much, much to learn and improve.
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Licenced theft
My wife, heading outbound thru Stansted some years ago at Christmas time was stopped and challenged on some new, unopened, expensive cosmetics which she (and I) thought didn't come under the liquids/creams rule.
On being told they would be confiscated, she opened the packets and emptied the contents out into the security officer's tin tray, to the outrage of the security officer. Whether he was outraged at having his tray messed up, or at losing his booty, I couldn't say - but we suspect the latter.
And don't tell me it doesn't happen. As my wife said later "if I couldn't have them I don't see why his wife should, either".
On being told they would be confiscated, she opened the packets and emptied the contents out into the security officer's tin tray, to the outrage of the security officer. Whether he was outraged at having his tray messed up, or at losing his booty, I couldn't say - but we suspect the latter.
And don't tell me it doesn't happen. As my wife said later "if I couldn't have them I don't see why his wife should, either".
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really . . . . . . . ?
My wife, heading outbound through Stansted some years ago at Christmas time
Nevertheless, totally agree with principle of destroying anything of value that they confiscate.
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A couple of months ago flying from T1 BHX I was informed post xray that my trusty zip-lock bag was 'larger than the DFT guidelines. The security guy seemed almost embarrassed but apologetically told me that they had been audited by the DFT and pulled up on this recently. He then proceeded to give me two 'acceptable' bags for me to decant my toileteries into. Having done so I walked all of 5 yards before putting them back into the original bag and proceeding airside to get my flight.....
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AMEandPPL
I'm not getting into the "security" debate, but you asked:
"Home brew" shops (beer, that is) sell bottle cappers, for crown caps. Cost is around $40.00 AUD (around 15 Quid for you Poms)
Not sure about the "Home canning" shops (don't know of any), but drug smugglers are forever canning opium/coke/heroin. So if the smugglers can get hold of canning equipment, then others could, too.
DIVOSH!
In relation to the fluid debate, has anyone ever suggested just HOW a potential terrorist could get any kind of offensive or harmful liquid into an UNOPENED can or tin, or a bottle with a "crown" cap ? OK, I suppose a bottle with a screw cap just could be subject to tampering; but those others . . . . . Coke, Fanta, beer, etc ?
Not sure about the "Home canning" shops (don't know of any), but drug smugglers are forever canning opium/coke/heroin. So if the smugglers can get hold of canning equipment, then others could, too.
DIVOSH!
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I do not travel much these days but just spent a 4 weeks in CPT.
For my return, I packed in a hurry, remembered to put my wet razor in my case and thew my toilet bag in a carry on.
Security saw my toilet bag on the screen and pulled it out. They looked at the two part used aerosols of shaving foam and put them back in my bag.
My wife had less than the max amount of water but in too large a bottle so she drank it and gave them the empty.
The joys of travel.
For my return, I packed in a hurry, remembered to put my wet razor in my case and thew my toilet bag in a carry on.
Security saw my toilet bag on the screen and pulled it out. They looked at the two part used aerosols of shaving foam and put them back in my bag.
My wife had less than the max amount of water but in too large a bottle so she drank it and gave them the empty.
The joys of travel.
