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EU to review liquid ban

Old 5th Sep 2007, 07:48
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doo
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EU to review liquid ban

http://euobserver.com/9/24696/?rk=1
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Old 5th Sep 2007, 07:58
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What a breath of fresh air it was to hear someone at last talking sense on the subject this morning on the Radio 4 'Today' program - (around 0730)

I think his name was Ignazi Guadin or something similar - he was refreshingly outspoken on the subject, common sense being the main thrust of the points he made. 10 out of 10 to him - How I wish such sense could be demonstrated by our own Government!

I apologise to him if I have spelt his name wrong.

BS
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Old 5th Sep 2007, 08:04
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Thumbs down Not going to happen!!!

Something quite similar to this press release was announced in most European papers about 2 months ago........yet another piece of propaganda from Brussels.
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Old 6th Sep 2007, 11:35
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I could imagine British sources are refusing to take that issue back, as it was "their baby".
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Old 6th Sep 2007, 18:42
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As I was putting my laptop through security the other day, it occured to me that it was protected by a gel filled case. So why not use that to smuggle explosive. Or how about in a plastic container rammed up my a##e, the body is mostly made of liquid, no detector in current service is going to find that. Or why not just have an agent planted in engineering, catering or baggage handling smuggle in hookey liquid by means of a container suspended within a fuel tank, or other tank of liquid. or or or or ..........

How about we strip everyone and make them travel in disposable paper suits.

We had two terrorists drive their jeep in to an airport terminal building and the cops didn't take the opportunity to shoot them, but manage to do a fairly comprehensive job on a visiting Brazilian student.

The whole world is going nuts, and somewhere on a southern Philippine beach OBL is sipping virgin coladas and grinning like a Cheshire cat.

Rant over
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Old 6th Sep 2007, 18:57
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If this happens, are the security guards gonna starve? What will they live on if they can't knick my curry and aftershave?





I got through XXX security (a major welsh international airstrip) last week and went to drop my non-explosive keys back into my bag. I discovered my unopened bottle of Buxton Mineral water (2 liters) in there, left over from the previous day. I took it out and dropped it on the desk in front of our valiant security crusader. Nil comment from him. Ho-hum.
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Old 6th Sep 2007, 20:29
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Apologies if this has been posted before, but I think it pretty much makes all the salient points.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08...t_terror_labs/

OK, so it's from a news site that relates to my day job rather than aviation, but I still reckon it's germane. I certainly wish it had made the mainstream news.
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Old 6th Sep 2007, 21:45
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I know it is slightly off thread, but I was amazed yesterday to be checked through security by a member of security who was himself, only in posession of a visitors pass. When I asked how this could be possible, I was informed this is now normal for new security staff to be able to work, while they are waiting for the normal vetting process to be concluded.
Do I need to draw a picture of the possabilities this can offer, never mind the water folks!
Who is making these descisions?
BALLSOUT
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 04:44
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Flammable liquids

Whenever people complain about banning liquids on airplanes they always seem to talk about using the liquids to create an explosive, which just seems way too complex.

My fear has always been a flammable liquid.

My only involvement with aircraft is as a passenger, but it seems to me that nothing is quite as dangerous as a serious onboard fire.

What would happen if someone poured a liter of something like ether around and ignited it inside an airliner at high altitude? I assume the oxygen would be consumed rapidly which would make fighting the fire more difficult.

Perhaps modern aircraft are more resistant to fire than I think.
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 06:45
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ASFKAP,

Customs officers in the UK have to go through the same cr*p as everyone else - no liquids over 100ml, boots off when asked etc.

Ridiculous when you consider that when they get airside they have the power to board aircraft carrying handcuffs, knives, bolt cutters and the like



S78
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 08:33
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The issue of people setting duty free on fire (especially high-strength alcohol) is why I remain very surprised that matches are permitted on board. As smoking is not permitted, there is no reason at all why they should be.
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 08:45
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The reason they're brought into the cabin is that they are too dangerous to have in the hold in case they light themselves. They're not deemed dangerous enough to ban from the aircraft altogether though.
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 08:56
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Warning Toxic!
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CAN WE STOP HAVING SUGGESTIONS FOR BYPASSING SECURITY IN THIS THREAD PLEASE!
Whatever is the matter with some of you. Can you remove your 'brilliant ideas'?
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 09:15
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Airside Passholders liquid privileges petition

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/airside/
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 10:10
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Rainboe
I understand your concern, but the problem here is the fools that are in charge of the system. Perhaps if they read these threads, they may take note. But i doubt it!
BALLSOUT.
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 12:37
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A bit more of "The Register's" article referred to by DozyWannabe to wet the appetite of those interested enough to try and put some pressure on the Muppets who decide what and how to implement the stupid liquid bans...

Let's whip up some TATP and find out

By Thomas C Greene in Washington

Published Thursday 17th August 2006 09:42 GMT

The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air;
And a loud voice came forth out of the temple of Heaven,
From the throne, saying, "It is done!"
--Revelation 16:17


Binary liquid explosives are a sexy staple of Hollywood thrillers. It would be tedious to enumerate the movie terrorists who've employed relatively harmless liquids that, when mixed, immediately rain destruction upon an innocent populace, like the seven angels of God's wrath pouring out their bowls full of pestilence and pain.

The funny thing about these movies is, we never learn just which two chemicals can be handled safely when separate, yet instantly blow us all to kingdom come when combined. Nevertheless, we maintain a great eagerness to believe in these substances, chiefly because action movies wouldn't be as much fun if we didn't. ...more.
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 14:07
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The trouble with all security is that it only takes one idiot to find a way of manufacturing something to bring an aircraft down followed by a cry "Why did we not see this coming ?- who is to blame?" It is also worth remembering that whatever we do in the UK or Europe or the States has to be matched at ALL down route airports. Can you seriously see this happening?
As a passenger I would always consider aggravating security such as the liquids matter as worth tolerating just for safety's sake but what about down route - are they as fastidious? I doubt it.
It must be an absolute drag for aircrew (i'm only a week-end pilot) but the very nature of this frustration could be the opportunity for some maniac to get something on board.
It is an old maxim that " The price of peace is eternal vigilance" and so it is with security. An absolute "pain in the butt" for some but just an aggravating nuisance for everybody else.
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 16:51
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For once I actually agree with the EU on this one. Unless anyone can provide compelling evidence that a home made binary liquid bomb is possible (they won't, coz it isn't) then the ban on liquids should be lifted.
Unlikely to happen in the UK though, as that would reveal that this is just another bit DfT empire building at the best, and another 'we hate aviation' consipiracy at worst.

Thought for the day: if a binary liquid bomb is so damn easy, why bother with the agg of blowing up an airplane - surely a packed commuter train or 10 would have just as big effect and has no security. Oh no, could it be that its not actually possible? The DfT lying to us? never.

(sorry to put Ideas into the Jihadists head rainboe, but I'm sure they've thought of this)
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Old 8th Sep 2007, 01:48
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If someone's bright (?) enough to be scouring PPRuNe for hints about terrorism, they're bright enough to take a cheap flight and keep their eyes open and their brain switched on through security. I think it's safe enough to state the blazingly obvious here.

Roughly four or five times the population of the UK goes through UK airports every year. That's quarter of a billion people. Your chances of ending up airside with things you shouldn't have, if you approach the problem with a few smarts, are extremely high (what were the TSA stats for agents trying to get naughtiness through? Detection rate close to nil. What, you can't think how to do it?).

The business of mixing binary bombs at FL330 is bogus. The chances of it working are tiny, and there are so many better ways...

The only reason for the continued liquid restrictions I can think of is that someone made that call and now refuses to back down because nobody's ever relaxed security like that before

R
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Old 8th Sep 2007, 05:35
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Ummmmm, Watch survivor man for a pretty good example of a binary that is SIMPLE... While not a high order explosive, its impressive.

AA and the Allied Pilots Association believe its real, and I have seen a demonstration. I believe its real as well. Enough said. Bury your heads in the sand if you must.

Cheers
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