Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) If you are regularly a passenger on any airline then why not post your questions here?

EU to review liquid ban

Old 5th Sep 2007, 07:48
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 286
EU to review liquid ban
doo is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2007, 07:58
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 61
What a breath of fresh air it was to hear someone at last talking sense on the subject this morning on the Radio 4 'Today' program - (around 0730)

I think his name was Ignazi Guadin or something similar - he was refreshingly outspoken on the subject, common sense being the main thrust of the points he made. 10 out of 10 to him - How I wish such sense could be demonstrated by our own Government!

I apologise to him if I have spelt his name wrong.

bullshot is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2007, 08:04
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 128
Thumbs down Not going to happen!!!

Something quite similar to this press release was announced in most European papers about 2 months ago........yet another piece of propaganda from Brussels.
Captain Planet is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2007, 11:35
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 301
I could imagine British sources are refusing to take that issue back, as it was "their baby".
Kraut is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2007, 18:42
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 57
Posts: 493
As I was putting my laptop through security the other day, it occured to me that it was protected by a gel filled case. So why not use that to smuggle explosive. Or how about in a plastic container rammed up my a##e, the body is mostly made of liquid, no detector in current service is going to find that. Or why not just have an agent planted in engineering, catering or baggage handling smuggle in hookey liquid by means of a container suspended within a fuel tank, or other tank of liquid. or or or or ..........

How about we strip everyone and make them travel in disposable paper suits.

We had two terrorists drive their jeep in to an airport terminal building and the cops didn't take the opportunity to shoot them, but manage to do a fairly comprehensive job on a visiting Brazilian student.

The whole world is going nuts, and somewhere on a southern Philippine beach OBL is sipping virgin coladas and grinning like a Cheshire cat.

Rant over
rmac is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2007, 18:57
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On my farm
Posts: 1,193
If this happens, are the security guards gonna starve? What will they live on if they can't knick my curry and aftershave?

I got through XXX security (a major welsh international airstrip) last week and went to drop my non-explosive keys back into my bag. I discovered my unopened bottle of Buxton Mineral water (2 liters) in there, left over from the previous day. I took it out and dropped it on the desk in front of our valiant security crusader. Nil comment from him. Ho-hum.
blue up is online now  
Old 6th Sep 2007, 20:29
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 3,182
Apologies if this has been posted before, but I think it pretty much makes all the salient points.

OK, so it's from a news site that relates to my day job rather than aviation, but I still reckon it's germane. I certainly wish it had made the mainstream news.
DozyWannabe is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2007, 21:45
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: U K
Posts: 469
I know it is slightly off thread, but I was amazed yesterday to be checked through security by a member of security who was himself, only in posession of a visitors pass. When I asked how this could be possible, I was informed this is now normal for new security staff to be able to work, while they are waiting for the normal vetting process to be concluded.
Do I need to draw a picture of the possabilities this can offer, never mind the water folks!
Who is making these descisions?
BALLSOUT is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 04:44
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CA, USA
Age: 64
Posts: 1
Flammable liquids

Whenever people complain about banning liquids on airplanes they always seem to talk about using the liquids to create an explosive, which just seems way too complex.

My fear has always been a flammable liquid.

My only involvement with aircraft is as a passenger, but it seems to me that nothing is quite as dangerous as a serious onboard fire.

What would happen if someone poured a liter of something like ether around and ignited it inside an airliner at high altitude? I assume the oxygen would be consumed rapidly which would make fighting the fire more difficult.

Perhaps modern aircraft are more resistant to fire than I think.
ndonovan is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 06:45
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: not entirely sure.....
Posts: 188

Customs officers in the UK have to go through the same cr*p as everyone else - no liquids over 100ml, boots off when asked etc.

Ridiculous when you consider that when they get airside they have the power to board aircraft carrying handcuffs, knives, bolt cutters and the like

S78 is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 08:33
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Age: 41
Posts: 76
The issue of people setting duty free on fire (especially high-strength alcohol) is why I remain very surprised that matches are permitted on board. As smoking is not permitted, there is no reason at all why they should be.
pacer142 is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 08:45
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 34
The reason they're brought into the cabin is that they are too dangerous to have in the hold in case they light themselves. They're not deemed dangerous enough to ban from the aircraft altogether though.
MuttleyJ is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 08:56
  #13 (permalink)  
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 4,011
Whatever is the matter with some of you. Can you remove your 'brilliant ideas'?
Rainboe is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 09:15
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 42
Airside Passholders liquid privileges petition
one2go is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 10:10
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: U K
Posts: 469
I understand your concern, but the problem here is the fools that are in charge of the system. Perhaps if they read these threads, they may take note. But i doubt it!
BALLSOUT is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 12:37
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Anglesey
Posts: 29
A bit more of "The Register's" article referred to by DozyWannabe to wet the appetite of those interested enough to try and put some pressure on the Muppets who decide what and how to implement the stupid liquid bans...

Let's whip up some TATP and find out

By Thomas C Greene in Washington

Published Thursday 17th August 2006 09:42 GMT

The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air;
And a loud voice came forth out of the temple of Heaven,
From the throne, saying, "It is done!"
--Revelation 16:17

Binary liquid explosives are a sexy staple of Hollywood thrillers. It would be tedious to enumerate the movie terrorists who've employed relatively harmless liquids that, when mixed, immediately rain destruction upon an innocent populace, like the seven angels of God's wrath pouring out their bowls full of pestilence and pain.

The funny thing about these movies is, we never learn just which two chemicals can be handled safely when separate, yet instantly blow us all to kingdom come when combined. Nevertheless, we maintain a great eagerness to believe in these substances, chiefly because action movies wouldn't be as much fun if we didn't. ...more.
mumbo jumbo is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 14:07
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 117
The trouble with all security is that it only takes one idiot to find a way of manufacturing something to bring an aircraft down followed by a cry "Why did we not see this coming ?- who is to blame?" It is also worth remembering that whatever we do in the UK or Europe or the States has to be matched at ALL down route airports. Can you seriously see this happening?
As a passenger I would always consider aggravating security such as the liquids matter as worth tolerating just for safety's sake but what about down route - are they as fastidious? I doubt it.
It must be an absolute drag for aircrew (i'm only a week-end pilot) but the very nature of this frustration could be the opportunity for some maniac to get something on board.
It is an old maxim that " The price of peace is eternal vigilance" and so it is with security. An absolute "pain in the butt" for some but just an aggravating nuisance for everybody else.
interpreter is offline  
Old 7th Sep 2007, 16:51
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Essex
Age: 50
Posts: 118
For once I actually agree with the EU on this one. Unless anyone can provide compelling evidence that a home made binary liquid bomb is possible (they won't, coz it isn't) then the ban on liquids should be lifted.
Unlikely to happen in the UK though, as that would reveal that this is just another bit DfT empire building at the best, and another 'we hate aviation' consipiracy at worst.

Thought for the day: if a binary liquid bomb is so damn easy, why bother with the agg of blowing up an airplane - surely a packed commuter train or 10 would have just as big effect and has no security. Oh no, could it be that its not actually possible? The DfT lying to us? never.

(sorry to put Ideas into the Jihadists head rainboe, but I'm sure they've thought of this)
AlexL is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2007, 01:48
  #19 (permalink)  
None but a blockhead
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: London, UK
Posts: 535
If someone's bright (?) enough to be scouring PPRuNe for hints about terrorism, they're bright enough to take a cheap flight and keep their eyes open and their brain switched on through security. I think it's safe enough to state the blazingly obvious here.

Roughly four or five times the population of the UK goes through UK airports every year. That's quarter of a billion people. Your chances of ending up airside with things you shouldn't have, if you approach the problem with a few smarts, are extremely high (what were the TSA stats for agents trying to get naughtiness through? Detection rate close to nil. What, you can't think how to do it?).

The business of mixing binary bombs at FL330 is bogus. The chances of it working are tiny, and there are so many better ways...

The only reason for the continued liquid restrictions I can think of is that someone made that call and now refuses to back down because nobody's ever relaxed security like that before

Self Loading Freight is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2007, 05:35
  #20 (permalink)  
Union Goon
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,097
Ummmmm, Watch survivor man for a pretty good example of a binary that is SIMPLE... While not a high order explosive, its impressive.

AA and the Allied Pilots Association believe its real, and I have seen a demonstration. I believe its real as well. Enough said. Bury your heads in the sand if you must.

Wino is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.