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Aborted landings/Go-Arounds

Old 17th Feb 2007, 14:02
  #21 (permalink)  

Aisle seat, please.
 
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I'm with PaxBoy on this one. I spend far too much of my life inside aluminium tubes but I've never once had a GA. Mind you, I'll happily keep it that way too.
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Old 17th Feb 2007, 14:59
  #22 (permalink)  
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Thumbs up

Gou I think that what you mean is .. "I want to be picky and have the good GAs and not the ones that are too bumpy or in really bad weather. Oh yes, could I also be in a nice window seat, on the correct side to be able to look down at the field from 90 degrees(!) Thank you for your help and where shall I book?"

Hey!!! Here is a gap in the market. Sell tickets for multiple GAs!
Line up on the black stuff and then BooosH
Then do it again. and again. That roller coaster ride will bring in the money - forget about going to the edge of space for half a million, just a couple of hundred for a couple of GAs. Dang - I'm a genius.
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Old 17th Feb 2007, 15:15
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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and CO2 emissions?
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Old 17th Feb 2007, 18:36
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Been involved in 4 go arounds, all on TCX757s in May 2006.

Fog at Zakynthos meant 2 aborted approaches and a diversion to Athens. Once on the ground at Athens, we refuelled, waited an hour, then had another attempt.

This time thick, low cloud cover meant the pilot couldnt see the runway, and the risk of getting below the clouds and not being lined up was too great, so after a couple of attempts, it was back to Athens again. On the final approach, there were a few tears and tantrums from pax, including some appalling comments from folk near the front, who were more concerned about losing a few hours of their holiday then their lives....

Full marks to the crew for trying before their hours ran out, and we were kept well informed.
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Old 17th Feb 2007, 22:53
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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A few years ago, returning into EMA on a Monday morning from a heavy weekend in Dublin, as the GF of the time was working there, I was on a BM Fokker 70 and we had 2 GAs because of because of very low cloud / poor vis /rain wind etc... Bloody awful in fact going down the M1 afterwards. Only one glimpse of the ground on the first attempt, the Piano Keys, just as power was being applied.
I still remember thinking, after the second attempt (forgive me guys & gals I'm a mere PAX), isn't it the third time it all goes wrong? Please... feel free to div to BHX!!!
Anyhow, needless to say, we all did arrive and safe and sound, and without a murmur throughout from any of the PAX. Perhaps they too were nursing horrendous hangovers...
Well impressed with the fellas at the sharp end. Cheers guys

Last edited by foxile; 17th Feb 2007 at 23:04.
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 01:27
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Chaps. Go arounds are normally flown because it's a good idea. The best analogy I can give you is a fast bowler to a batsman being fielded by silly mid off. Hit the buttons low level in a light weight twin-jet and things go b&ggering off exit stage up goddarn quick. Great fun...... ! However regaining a sensible flightpath afterwards is the hardest bit (autopilot flight direcftor, flaps, gear, composure..) Hence long periods of silence from the front following a G/A is quite normal. I've done several, I think trying to explain it away is the worst bit!!
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 06:25
  #27 (permalink)  
Final 3 Greens
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Experienced three as a pax over the past 20 years.

BAC 1-11 at Birmingham
L1011 (TriStar) at Heathrow
BAe 146 at London City (briefly touched down during the manouevre)

And I've done a few as pilot of small aeroplanes, usually because the aircraft that landed ahead had not cleared (turned off) the runway.

I guess if you are an inexperienced pax, then it can be a bit sudden and unexpected and if the aeroplane is bouncing all around in winds, that doesn't help either.

In a way, a privilege to witness the performance of a modern jet transport aircraft and the impressive rate of climb and acceleration

Its the high speed rejected takeoffs that you don't really wish to be around.
 
Old 18th Feb 2007, 07:04
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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There seems to be a trend to have experienced three go-arounds... and here are my three...
- Dan Air 1-11 at LGW
- Atlas Blue 737 at LGW
- Malaysian AL 747 at LHR
Only once was any explanation given and that was the Dan Air one (another a/c hadn't cleared the runway). It is a bit disconcerting, but let's face it, happens all the time.
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 14:05
  #29 (permalink)  
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Watching and listening to a video I found on youtube, incidently a planned go around with flight deck commentry you can hear how busy it is up the pointy end!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNaCjjkSMc8
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 16:07
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Only two in 20 years:
BA Tristar at CDG - runway not clear
BA 767 at Glasgow - wind gusting outside crosswind limits

I'd echo F3G's thoughts - both about impressive performance (a lightly loaded 757/767 is best for this ) and also that an RTO

Royal Jordanian Tristar at Amman - erroneous cargo door warning light

tends to get the heart rate up.
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 17:21
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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BA 747-400 Kai Tak 13 chequerboard approach in low cloud/mist. Saw the cranes and buildings briefly then the turn to the right shortly followed by full power, nose going up, noise of gear going up etc. The cabin went quiet. Very quiet.

After a few minutes the Captain came on the PA with a suitably reassuring message delivered in the usual unhurried and calm manner. Then round again, and this time a perfect landing.

I miss that approach!

Had enjoyed an RTO in a 146 on the IoM's short runway on the same trip....again a non event for those up front.
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Old 18th Feb 2007, 18:01
  #32 (permalink)  
Final 3 Greens
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Haven't a Clue

Had enjoyed an RTO in a 146 on the IoM's short runway on the same trip....again a non event for those up front.

As I understand it, the speed and timing of an RTO can make it either a non event or very much an event for the drivers, perhaps a line pilot would like to comment?
 
Old 18th Feb 2007, 21:24
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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I have also had the customary 3 go-arounds:

1. British Midland DC-9 at EDI - reason given as aircraft in front not vacated but it was an incredibly windy day, both approaches were exceptionally rough, pax being sick etc. Everyone very relieved to be on terra firma!

2. British Midland 737 at LHR - night landing on 27R abandoned over Hatton Cross tube due aircraft not vacated; a non-event

3. Easyjet 737 at GVA - dramatic go-around as aircraft entered the flare - reason given as cabin not secure but I found that very suspect as we were only 20-30ft above the runway.
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Old 19th Feb 2007, 15:54
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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BrumGit, the engine īcut-outī you refer to is quite common on the Fk-70/100 family, especially when sitting at the back next to it. Itīs not actually cutting out at all, just the thrust being reduced for descent and added again when levelling off. For some odd reason (the technicalities of which Iīm not au fait with) itīs just a lot more noticeable on the Fokkers than other jets. In rough weather there can be numerous thrust adjustments and you will experience what you explained. Unfortunately, at such times the FD crew are probably far too busy to have a friendly little chat with the pax. So, next time rest assured that itīs all quite normal.

My last GA was on a DELTA B727 at Atlanta at about 1000 ft. Rather than execute a standard type GA and get vectored all around the Atlanta skies, we just climbed back to circuit altitude,made a slow and tight left orbit and rejoined for finals! Great fun on a B727. Captain explained that we had been to close to the preceeding - and fortunately there was nothing behind us on our runway.
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Old 19th Feb 2007, 20:08
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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. Easyjet 737 at GVA - dramatic go-around as aircraft entered the flare - reason given as cabin not secure but I found that very suspect as we were only 20-30ft above the runway.
Yesterday 19:01
The seatbelt signs go on at about 10 ten minutes to go giving the cc enough time to secure the cabin. If we get a short cut from ATC it might mean that the cabin is not quite secure in time. depending on the day, you can leave it as long as you dare, but if there is no secure by crossing the threshold - go around.
As I understand it, the speed and timing of an RTO can make it either a non event or very much an event for the drivers, perhaps a line pilot would like to comment?
The closer it is to V1, the hairier it is! Generally we will stop for anything below 80 kt, but between 80 and V1 we'll be looking out for engine fire, confirmed engine failure, runway obstruction and control malfunction. The closer you get to V1 the more sure you have to be that there is a better reason for stopping, and not continuing the take-off.
I still remember thinking, after the second attempt (forgive me guys & gals I'm a mere PAX), isn't it the third time it all goes wrong? Please... feel free to div to BHX!!!
Generally if it's a weather problem, you can make two approaches before needing to divert to your alternate. A third can be made if there is a reasonable certainty that the weather is improving and a successful landing can be made (that's in our operations manual anyway)
They had 3 aborted attempts at landing in Birmingham (I witnessed attempt 3 as they were half way down the runway at about 4m and "overshot" - BA's word) before being told by the pilot that they needed to divert to Manchester. They then had 2 attempts at getting down (luckily the second attempt was a good one) and were slightly surprised to find that they were on the ground at East Midlands instead.
Sounds like one hell of a night. Unfortunately the workload becomes astronomical; calls to ATC, getting weather updates, calls to company for diversion preferences, fuel calculations, weather avoidance etc - that a simple pa to the pax really gets put to the bottom of the list. Sorry, but flying the plane comes above the niceties.
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Old 20th Feb 2007, 04:01
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Had my first one as flight crew earlier this month in Shanghai. My fault entirely as I became destabalised at about 100 feet with a stonking crosswind.
Most guys I fly with average about one a year.

cheers,
The Cav
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Old 20th Feb 2007, 10:00
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Avman

Thanks for the reassuring words, however I'm sure this one was different to the scenario you describe. We were mid-cruise and there was no change in altitude for a number of minutes before or after so I do not think that it was simply descending.

The 1st time it was midway through the pilot's PA to pax so again it wasn't too busy at the time.

And lastly it was definitely only 1 engine which dropped it's speed right back - and the immediate directional change which was almost as quickly corrected also seems (to a mere SLF) to indicate a thrust imbalance betwen the two engines.

However the same KLM Fokker must be still flying as it hasn't been in the news since that they made a smoking hole anywhere, so it was obviously a non-event. But that didn't help me at the time.

Steve
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Old 20th Feb 2007, 12:52
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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A Very Civil Pilot

Interesting post, thanks for that.
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Old 21st Feb 2007, 20:03
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Only on one once, EZY coming into Luton where there was unwonted static fog on the runway area, made 3 attempts then diverted to EMA. This suited me fine as I was travelling to Brum, but I was surprised that pilots needed "a clear view of the runway" as it was a calm day and they must be trained to do zero-zero landings. He'd taken on plenty of extra fuel.

I also saw a KLM jet abort at BHX, probably because there was still a plane just turning off the runway.
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Old 21st Feb 2007, 21:30
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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I was in a go-round coming into a Swiss airport early last year. As a highly-strung and greenish SLF, I was lucky to be sitting next to a commercial pilot. He looked up, snorted something about "Turks parked on the runway again" and went back to his book.

No panic apparent from CC or pax and all went smoothly next time round. No explanation was offered, but think I'd have been worried if the pointy-enders had stopped what they were doing to have a chat.
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