Reclining seats send airline tempers soaring
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Despite the usual requests from Ezy CC to put em upright, the seats on their
A319's dont recline.
I have never considered it an issue either -even on Long Haul. I have always put my seat back "a bit" but not fully, whenever I felt the need and never thought to ask or advise those behind, and accepted the fact that if the person in front wanted to recline on me then thats their choice and I would just have to live with it.
Homeard bound Downunder on the A380 later this week so it will be interesting to see how the room in economy compares to the 777 and 747.
Will now be a little more courteous / aware when reclining though after reading this thread!
DogGone
A319's dont recline.
I have never considered it an issue either -even on Long Haul. I have always put my seat back "a bit" but not fully, whenever I felt the need and never thought to ask or advise those behind, and accepted the fact that if the person in front wanted to recline on me then thats their choice and I would just have to live with it.
Homeard bound Downunder on the A380 later this week so it will be interesting to see how the room in economy compares to the 777 and 747.
Will now be a little more courteous / aware when reclining though after reading this thread!
DogGone
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The airlines could help themselves by offering the emergency exit seats to tall people at checkin or embarkment. It would avoid a lot of aggravation for the cabin crew. I'm too tall to sit straight in standard seats, and so have to sit with my legs sideways, jutting into the personal space of my neighbours (who justifiably complain), or out into the aisle where they interfere with cabin crew.
Airlines used to make available ALL their seating on seating charts (and BA still does for the over-wing exits), but then on embarkment and final check found that too many unsuitable people were sat in emergency exit seating (minors, babies, elderly), so emergency exit seating on long-haul flights tends to be bookable only at the airport (and on some airlines, on paying the appropriate surcharge).
S.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Long time ago I had a seat fully recline in to me. I like to read and I need arm room as much as leg room. Simple, I just stretch my arms forward.
Also don't forget the last seat in the cabin. They can't recline when the one in front drops in their lap.
Finally avoid Thomas Cook. 28 inch pitch, stuff all recline (so no probs), and you can't get your legs under the seat in front (757).
Monarch A320 - BLISS - able to stretch full length. I have passed on my thoughts to Thomas Cook.
Also don't forget the last seat in the cabin. They can't recline when the one in front drops in their lap.
Finally avoid Thomas Cook. 28 inch pitch, stuff all recline (so no probs), and you can't get your legs under the seat in front (757).
Monarch A320 - BLISS - able to stretch full length. I have passed on my thoughts to Thomas Cook.
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discrimination
it is discrimination against taller / longer legged pax to cram them into a seat because it happens to be the airline standard (or to charge more) and too small, in just the same way as it is to try and charge wheelchair pax because they can't walk.
It is about time we longer legged species got together and challenged the airlines again.
It is about time we longer legged species got together and challenged the airlines again.
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I'm a bit over 6'2", my company flies me economy and I can't afford to pay for upgrades myself (though I use points for it, when I can).
I had one bloke react agressively (similar to qwertyplop's experience) after I politely asked him to move their seatback up during meal service, now I ask cabin crew to ask them when my meal is handed to me rather than risk repeating the experience.
One trip I had the person in front slam their seat back as hard as they could, painfully smacking into my knees casing me to double forward. Unfortunately they obviously felt it could go back further so they put it up and did it again, hitting me in the face
. Lady sitting next to me got me some ice (those IFE screens don't give to well) and the (very pleasant) CC who came over to find out why it was needed found me a seat in club.
It doesn't take a lot of effort to consider those behind (and in front of) you and manners usually go a long way. Also try and remember not to sweat the small stuff and it's almost all small stuff.
I had one bloke react agressively (similar to qwertyplop's experience) after I politely asked him to move their seatback up during meal service, now I ask cabin crew to ask them when my meal is handed to me rather than risk repeating the experience.
One trip I had the person in front slam their seat back as hard as they could, painfully smacking into my knees casing me to double forward. Unfortunately they obviously felt it could go back further so they put it up and did it again, hitting me in the face
. Lady sitting next to me got me some ice (those IFE screens don't give to well) and the (very pleasant) CC who came over to find out why it was needed found me a seat in club.It doesn't take a lot of effort to consider those behind (and in front of) you and manners usually go a long way. Also try and remember not to sweat the small stuff and it's almost all small stuff.
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To me just putting my seat back ONE notch is a OK, I'll normally look over my shoulder to make sure the dude behind isn't leaning forwards.
The putting of a seat all the way back however is rude, yes, the seat is capable, yes you've paid for it but it is the equivelent of doing 50mph on the motorway or 40mph in a 50 zone. Or pushing into the front of a queue. Just plain annoying and not the norm. If the person in front wants to do it, then that's their decision to be an a$$hole and depending on what mood I am they'll get the response that I decide at the time I think is appropriate.
The putting of a seat all the way back however is rude, yes, the seat is capable, yes you've paid for it but it is the equivelent of doing 50mph on the motorway or 40mph in a 50 zone. Or pushing into the front of a queue. Just plain annoying and not the norm. If the person in front wants to do it, then that's their decision to be an a$$hole and depending on what mood I am they'll get the response that I decide at the time I think is appropriate.
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it is discrimination against taller / longer legged pax to cram them into a seat because it happens to be the airline standard (or to charge more) and too small, in just the same way as it is to try and charge wheelchair pax because they can't walk.
The trouble is that most pax are quite selfish and will not pay any extra to provide accomodation that is more comfortable for others.
They then complain when they feel a tall person's knees in their back or when that person wishes to recline their seat or put their legs into the aisle to get a little respite.
If you look at the obese passenger threads, you'll see the saem sentiments.
They fear that obese people may get "something for free", rather than that the person in the next seat will benefit just as much.
IMHO, the minimum seat pitch in economy should be 34", not that this would be great for taller people, but it would make life more bearable.
Sadly other pax do not share this sentiment and as AA found out, will not pay more for seat pitch.
Unless some pressure group is successful in changing opinions, there are limited options for taller people and most of these involve paying a lot more money.
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My first post. A few years ago coming back from Florida we thought we had hit the jackpot when we were upgraded for free to extra leg room seats. We were in the middle, just behind the entry door with a bulkhead in front of us. Partner was 6 months pregnant at the time.
It was an overnight flight so reclined my seat back a bit, to be growled at 'there is a 90 year old behind you'. Spent the entire journey in agony sat upright and exhausted on arrival. This was not helped by one lady in particular who was obvioulsy very worried about DVT becuase every 30 minutes she would do a lap of the plane, stepping on my feet on the way!
This is the reason (together with said preggers producing a now 3 year old) we have not attempted longhaul again!
David
It was an overnight flight so reclined my seat back a bit, to be growled at 'there is a 90 year old behind you'. Spent the entire journey in agony sat upright and exhausted on arrival. This was not helped by one lady in particular who was obvioulsy very worried about DVT becuase every 30 minutes she would do a lap of the plane, stepping on my feet on the way!
This is the reason (together with said preggers producing a now 3 year old) we have not attempted longhaul again!
David
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They then complain when they feel a tall person's knees in their back or when that person wishes to recline their seat or put their legs into the aisle to get a little respite.
If there is a spare seat next to me then I usually swivel around abit and there is room for everyone, unfortunately this only really works well when the adjoining armrest can be lifted up a bit...
I dont think the situation will change, except possibly to give pax even less room....
Regards, SD..
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Everyone has the right to recline their seat, but please observe the following:
Not during meal service.
When starting to recline ensure there is nothing spillable on the tray behind.
Recline slowly, one notch at a time, as a signal to the person behind you that this is about to happen. Also look behind before you start.
Oh and one more thing, if you are getting out of your seat, do not grab the backrest of the seat in font of you. The guy in front (me) could be sleeping, just about to put a drink in his mouth etc.
Any kind of deliberate, constant banging on the backrest of the seat in front is not acceptable. This is especially directed to people with children.
Not during meal service.
When starting to recline ensure there is nothing spillable on the tray behind.
Recline slowly, one notch at a time, as a signal to the person behind you that this is about to happen. Also look behind before you start.
Oh and one more thing, if you are getting out of your seat, do not grab the backrest of the seat in font of you. The guy in front (me) could be sleeping, just about to put a drink in his mouth etc.
Any kind of deliberate, constant banging on the backrest of the seat in front is not acceptable. This is especially directed to people with children.
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Everyone has the right to recline their seat, but please observe the following:
Not during meal service.
When starting to recline ensure there is nothing spillable on the tray behind.
Recline slowly, one notch at a time, as a signal to the person behind you that this is about to happen. Also look behind before you start.
Oh and one more thing, if you are getting out of your seat, do not grab the backrest of the seat in font of you. The guy in front (me) could be sleeping, just about to put a drink in his mouth etc.
Any kind of deliberate, constant banging on the backrest of the seat in front is not acceptable. This is especially directed to people with children.
=================================================
Well said, alothough I do have a problem as I am 6'3" and 19 stone, built like a rugby player. I can't help that and at 71 years it's hard to alter anything. My knees are locked into the backrest of whoever is in front of me on our regular trips to OZ in cattle class.
When the person in front tries to recline his/her seat it will not move because of my knees. I finish every flight with very sore knees which often take a couple of weeks to return to a comfort level. Modern seating in a/c seems to be focused on midgets in order to pack in as many pax as possible.
I never recline my seat and I prefer to sleep upright.
Not during meal service.
When starting to recline ensure there is nothing spillable on the tray behind.
Recline slowly, one notch at a time, as a signal to the person behind you that this is about to happen. Also look behind before you start.
Oh and one more thing, if you are getting out of your seat, do not grab the backrest of the seat in font of you. The guy in front (me) could be sleeping, just about to put a drink in his mouth etc.
Any kind of deliberate, constant banging on the backrest of the seat in front is not acceptable. This is especially directed to people with children.
=================================================
Well said, alothough I do have a problem as I am 6'3" and 19 stone, built like a rugby player. I can't help that and at 71 years it's hard to alter anything. My knees are locked into the backrest of whoever is in front of me on our regular trips to OZ in cattle class.
When the person in front tries to recline his/her seat it will not move because of my knees. I finish every flight with very sore knees which often take a couple of weeks to return to a comfort level. Modern seating in a/c seems to be focused on midgets in order to pack in as many pax as possible.
I never recline my seat and I prefer to sleep upright.
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Quote...""""Everyone has the right to recline their seat, but please observe the following:
Not during meal service.
When starting to recline ensure there is nothing spillable on the tray behind.
Recline slowly, one notch at a time, as a signal to the person behind you that this is about to happen. Also look behind before you start.""""
I do this every time,but still get the odd whinger on shorhaul.
(longhaul is j class...just couldn't suffer i'm afraid)
We are due to fly to Alicante just after boxing day,and have BOOKED/PAID for xtra legroom seats.
That's the point we have paid for it...!
If i choose to recline, I will...(I don't at meal time)
Seats that recline,will recline..tis as simple as that,with a little courtesy.
Once had cabin crew come flying over literally,as she must have seen i was about to respond not so nicely to the passenger behind....she was literally hanging on to the back of my seat...with her bloody talons practically gouged into my skull...all beacause she hadn't paid for the legroom....and was trying to heave her humungous bulk from her seat to visit the washroom.
My seat wasn't even reclined at this time.
I feel that today's airline travel...good manners have gone out the window.
Not during meal service.
When starting to recline ensure there is nothing spillable on the tray behind.
Recline slowly, one notch at a time, as a signal to the person behind you that this is about to happen. Also look behind before you start.""""
I do this every time,but still get the odd whinger on shorhaul.
(longhaul is j class...just couldn't suffer i'm afraid)
We are due to fly to Alicante just after boxing day,and have BOOKED/PAID for xtra legroom seats.
That's the point we have paid for it...!
If i choose to recline, I will...(I don't at meal time)
Seats that recline,will recline..tis as simple as that,with a little courtesy.
Once had cabin crew come flying over literally,as she must have seen i was about to respond not so nicely to the passenger behind....she was literally hanging on to the back of my seat...with her bloody talons practically gouged into my skull...all beacause she hadn't paid for the legroom....and was trying to heave her humungous bulk from her seat to visit the washroom.
My seat wasn't even reclined at this time.
I feel that today's airline travel...good manners have gone out the window.
As an, all too frequent, passenger I've come to loath my fellow pax. I used to love flying, but once I got a job that entailed a lot of flying, I've grown to hate it. Based on experience (am clocking around 200K miles/year), made the decision never to fly long-haul on my own time, but if forced then only in business.
Enter darling wife, whos best friend recently immigrated to another continent. Wife insist we go visit her forthwith, and I check mileage balance. Unfortunately, had just spent most of the balance flying our families up/down for visits, so not enough miles for 2 c-class tickets. Told her we'd have to wait, but she wanted to go NOW. Fine, I said, then either you go economy or we pay for one c-class ticket (which was around 4K Euros). Wife has a hissy fit, I stand my ground. End of story? She went to visit her friend, I stayed at home.
Never, ever, will I fly long-haul in monkey class. And seat reclining is just one of many reasons.
Enter darling wife, whos best friend recently immigrated to another continent. Wife insist we go visit her forthwith, and I check mileage balance. Unfortunately, had just spent most of the balance flying our families up/down for visits, so not enough miles for 2 c-class tickets. Told her we'd have to wait, but she wanted to go NOW. Fine, I said, then either you go economy or we pay for one c-class ticket (which was around 4K Euros). Wife has a hissy fit, I stand my ground. End of story? She went to visit her friend, I stayed at home.
Never, ever, will I fly long-haul in monkey class. And seat reclining is just one of many reasons.
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The problem isn't that seats recline with passengers free to use the facility if they want to. The problem is WHEN the seat is reclined. Nothing angers me more on a long haul flight in economy when the pax in front fully reclines the seat the moment the aircraft is airborne to when the cabin crew insist they put it upright again prior to landing. This includes at least two meal services which I tend to enjoy but certainly cannot if my freedom of movement is so badly restricted.
There is also the cretin that suddenly and without warning, fully reclines their seat when a drinks or food service is in session or if I'm enjoying the IFE with a drink in hand. I've had red wine, beer, gin and tonic and hot coffee catapulted into my lap by such inconsiderate prats.
I'm intrigued by the Cathay Pacific alternative but I wonder whether this has been achieved at the expence of seat pitch?
I've sounded off on the subject of economy class seating many times over the past couple of years. The notion that First and Business Class pays for the flight is cr@p. Have you ever traveled with an airline that was content to have First and Business Classes fully booked whilst Economy was empty?
The truth is that the airlines blatantly use Economy Class revenues to subsidize First and Business. That is born out by the failure of such airlines as Silverjet and EOS who tried the one class Premium business model but found that it could not be sustained at current premium fares.
What is needed is a one class 'Standard' aircraft layout that uses 2-4-2 configuration with an absolute mimimum of 40 inches seat pitch. Those who would like that little 'extra' can be offered value added services such as an enhanced menu and additional IFE options over and above the 'Standard' fare. All beverages should be paid for.
Lottery winners and those whose employers foot the bill should be able to take advantage of specially fitted out, smaller aircraft from Bizjet to A320/B737 size with fares that actually cover the cost of such travel.
Don't be fooled by screams of 'it can't be done' from the beancounters. The likes of Ryanair do just what I propose albeit they are offering (sometimes) much lower fares.What I am advocating is using the current, fixed economy class fares and on-line reservations services but cutting out the cost (to we economy class pax) of the fancy lounges, additional cabin staff and all the other rubbish that surrounds First and Business Class air travel.
And (PS) Can someone tell me what a MIL is please?
There is also the cretin that suddenly and without warning, fully reclines their seat when a drinks or food service is in session or if I'm enjoying the IFE with a drink in hand. I've had red wine, beer, gin and tonic and hot coffee catapulted into my lap by such inconsiderate prats.
I'm intrigued by the Cathay Pacific alternative but I wonder whether this has been achieved at the expence of seat pitch?
I've sounded off on the subject of economy class seating many times over the past couple of years. The notion that First and Business Class pays for the flight is cr@p. Have you ever traveled with an airline that was content to have First and Business Classes fully booked whilst Economy was empty?
The truth is that the airlines blatantly use Economy Class revenues to subsidize First and Business. That is born out by the failure of such airlines as Silverjet and EOS who tried the one class Premium business model but found that it could not be sustained at current premium fares.
What is needed is a one class 'Standard' aircraft layout that uses 2-4-2 configuration with an absolute mimimum of 40 inches seat pitch. Those who would like that little 'extra' can be offered value added services such as an enhanced menu and additional IFE options over and above the 'Standard' fare. All beverages should be paid for.
Lottery winners and those whose employers foot the bill should be able to take advantage of specially fitted out, smaller aircraft from Bizjet to A320/B737 size with fares that actually cover the cost of such travel.
Don't be fooled by screams of 'it can't be done' from the beancounters. The likes of Ryanair do just what I propose albeit they are offering (sometimes) much lower fares.What I am advocating is using the current, fixed economy class fares and on-line reservations services but cutting out the cost (to we economy class pax) of the fancy lounges, additional cabin staff and all the other rubbish that surrounds First and Business Class air travel.
And (PS) Can someone tell me what a MIL is please?
Last edited by Xeque; 30th Dec 2008 at 11:51. Reason: A small grammer corection
Paxing All Over The World
Xeque
I have seen this view repudiated in here on more than one occasion and expect that someone will be along in a moment to do so.
Both of them tried to start at the end of the biz cycle. They did so when other mainline competitors still had spare money to attack them and they did not have pockets deep enough to establish themselves. The business model has been proven to work in one form by Privat Air (part of LH) and I expect that is where it will remain.
Back to Y seating. There is something to be said for FR's approach that locks the seats from reclining - although they have ulterior reasons - it does prevent this problem.
It would be interesting if the seat manufacturers could put a 'damping' mechanism on the recline. So that, as the pax started to push the seat back it met resistance and only moved slowly - thus giving time for the pax behind to get their drink out of the way.
SMT Member Yes, that is the decision I came to some while ago. I am fortunate that I don't have children, so we could choose to travel more comfortably.
The truth is that the airlines blatantly use Economy Class revenues to subsidize First and Business.
That is born out by the failure of such airlines as Silverjet and EOS who tried the one class Premium business model but found that it could not be sustained at current premium fares.
Back to Y seating. There is something to be said for FR's approach that locks the seats from reclining - although they have ulterior reasons - it does prevent this problem.
It would be interesting if the seat manufacturers could put a 'damping' mechanism on the recline. So that, as the pax started to push the seat back it met resistance and only moved slowly - thus giving time for the pax behind to get their drink out of the way.
SMT Member Yes, that is the decision I came to some while ago. I am fortunate that I don't have children, so we could choose to travel more comfortably.
