Ryanair again (sorry)
...the thin end thereof
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: London
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ryanair again (sorry)
I know the previous thread has just been closed but I want to ask those who know about the facts here. Just had my first experience of Ryanair. Now I know it's a Lo-Co, and my fare was very cheap, I'm also aware that because my fare was so low (STN-Palermo - about £85 return) I have no right to expect silver service. But what happened on arrival went too far imho.
Last night paxing PMO-STN landed at 2355Z. Running 45 minutes late so the flight deck did well to get us back before the airport closed which would have meant a diversion to BHX.
On arrival in the baggage hall there was a huge glut of pax waiting for their baggage. Announcements on PA apologised for the delay and said that it was due to a large number of incoming arrivals. All the people waiting as far as I could see were FR pax.
It was just after 0140 before the first bags off the flight came through (I noted the time - 01:45 minutes after landing). The only staff on duty were BAA, who said (understandably) that it was not their responsibility, that it was Ryanair and Swissport we needed to talk to, but that they had all gone home. Rumours of a baggage handling strike were denied by the BAA staff, one chap telling me it's all Ryanair, that they have only three people processing the bags for all the late arriving flights (is this true?), and that this was a nightly occurence (is this true?); not only that but in fact it was better than usual and it's been like this for one year. I find that hard to believe.
I asked about the contract - surely the airline have a duty to get your bags to you within 'a reasonable time'? He said Ryanair have a sneaky way round this which means you have two contracts, on to get you from Airport A to Airport B and the other to get your bags from A to B and then to you (is this true?).
Again, I don't expect much when I fly Ryanair, and until this point I was very happy (apart from having to wait 2 hours to clear check-in and 'security' on the way out which was not the fault of FR). But this is just not on. I missed the last train back, and was very lucky to get a lift to Golders Green from a very very nice El Al employee who I'd only asked for directions to the bus.
What is going on?????? Sort it out Mr O'Leary!
Last night paxing PMO-STN landed at 2355Z. Running 45 minutes late so the flight deck did well to get us back before the airport closed which would have meant a diversion to BHX.
On arrival in the baggage hall there was a huge glut of pax waiting for their baggage. Announcements on PA apologised for the delay and said that it was due to a large number of incoming arrivals. All the people waiting as far as I could see were FR pax.
It was just after 0140 before the first bags off the flight came through (I noted the time - 01:45 minutes after landing). The only staff on duty were BAA, who said (understandably) that it was not their responsibility, that it was Ryanair and Swissport we needed to talk to, but that they had all gone home. Rumours of a baggage handling strike were denied by the BAA staff, one chap telling me it's all Ryanair, that they have only three people processing the bags for all the late arriving flights (is this true?), and that this was a nightly occurence (is this true?); not only that but in fact it was better than usual and it's been like this for one year. I find that hard to believe.
I asked about the contract - surely the airline have a duty to get your bags to you within 'a reasonable time'? He said Ryanair have a sneaky way round this which means you have two contracts, on to get you from Airport A to Airport B and the other to get your bags from A to B and then to you (is this true?).
Again, I don't expect much when I fly Ryanair, and until this point I was very happy (apart from having to wait 2 hours to clear check-in and 'security' on the way out which was not the fault of FR). But this is just not on. I missed the last train back, and was very lucky to get a lift to Golders Green from a very very nice El Al employee who I'd only asked for directions to the bus.
What is going on?????? Sort it out Mr O'Leary!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: here there and everywhere
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately I can only empathise with you...Same flight, last september, same situation exactly.
I am burning inside, believe me, but my lips are sealed....
FBW
I am burning inside, believe me, but my lips are sealed....
FBW
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: A land down under
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless I am reading your post wrongly - it looks to me like Ryanair did their bit fine (great low fair giving people the opportunity to get about affordably) and that the problem lies with the handling agents.
I also think Mr O'Leary is doing his best to sort it out by doing his best to let us take on our 25kgs of hand baggage again.
Nothin worse than having to wait for bags - I was about an hour on Friday night at Edinburgh - but not really the airlines issue.
I also think Mr O'Leary is doing his best to sort it out by doing his best to let us take on our 25kgs of hand baggage again.
Nothin worse than having to wait for bags - I was about an hour on Friday night at Edinburgh - but not really the airlines issue.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: london
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless I am reading your post wrongly - it looks to me like Ryanair did their bit fine (great low fair giving people the opportunity to get about affordably) and that the problem lies with the handling agents.
I also think Mr O'Leary is doing his best to sort it out by doing his best to let us take on our 25kgs of hand baggage again.
Nothin worse than having to wait for bags - I was about an hour on Friday night at Edinburgh - but not really the airlines issue.
I also think Mr O'Leary is doing his best to sort it out by doing his best to let us take on our 25kgs of hand baggage again.
Nothin worse than having to wait for bags - I was about an hour on Friday night at Edinburgh - but not really the airlines issue.
Every company in the world would love to abdicate responsibility just because they sub-contracted. It doesn't really work like that.
It would be useful to hear if someone can confirm or refute the specific points raised by wedge, as they are important.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: England
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wedge
Ryanair contract Swissport to do their handling at Stansted, so O' Leary won't sort it out. Ryanair's late evning arrival schedule at Stansted is very heavy (check BAA Stansted arrivals) and unfortunately it is not uncommon to experience delays for baggage at that time of night, particularly if some flights are running slightly late which causes bunching at an already busy time. What hasn't helped is the recent security enhancements which has not helped LCCs to achieve on time performance for the 3 + sectors that most aircraft do in a day. All late evening Ryanair arrivals are scheduled in by 2350 local so it's possible Swissport have roster timings to suit. Not sure what incentives there are for staff to stay on later to handle delayed flights, seems not a lot given your experience and given it was bank holiday weekend.
Ryanair contract Swissport to do their handling at Stansted, so O' Leary won't sort it out. Ryanair's late evning arrival schedule at Stansted is very heavy (check BAA Stansted arrivals) and unfortunately it is not uncommon to experience delays for baggage at that time of night, particularly if some flights are running slightly late which causes bunching at an already busy time. What hasn't helped is the recent security enhancements which has not helped LCCs to achieve on time performance for the 3 + sectors that most aircraft do in a day. All late evening Ryanair arrivals are scheduled in by 2350 local so it's possible Swissport have roster timings to suit. Not sure what incentives there are for staff to stay on later to handle delayed flights, seems not a lot given your experience and given it was bank holiday weekend.
Paxing All Over The World
Wedge
So, don't use them again. I don't. If they are making the ticket price cheap it is because they have cut ALL their costs and if that means only paying Swissport enough for X staff, rather than Y at the end of the day - then that is down to the cleverness of FR.
But what happened on arrival went too far imho.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Wedge
I don't wish to sound harsh, but what did you expect from this airline? At the end of the day they got you safely to and from Palermo and fulfilled your contract with them. Yes you missed the train, but that is not the airline's responsibility (read the terns and conditions of your contract.)
If you look on other threads, you will find differences of opinion between the likes of SXB and Slim Slag about the relative merits/demerits of Ryanair.
Some people find the service acceptable, others do not. Ultimately it is a matter of choice.
Take PAXboy's advice if you find this incident unacceptable.
Did you know that Air Malta flies from LGW to CTA? (Catania) If you book well in advance it will cost you more that Ryanair, but probably not as much as you think and you'll get a meal, decent seat pitch and full service.
The choice, as ever, is yours.
I don't wish to sound harsh, but what did you expect from this airline? At the end of the day they got you safely to and from Palermo and fulfilled your contract with them. Yes you missed the train, but that is not the airline's responsibility (read the terns and conditions of your contract.)
If you look on other threads, you will find differences of opinion between the likes of SXB and Slim Slag about the relative merits/demerits of Ryanair.
Some people find the service acceptable, others do not. Ultimately it is a matter of choice.
Take PAXboy's advice if you find this incident unacceptable.
Did you know that Air Malta flies from LGW to CTA? (Catania) If you book well in advance it will cost you more that Ryanair, but probably not as much as you think and you'll get a meal, decent seat pitch and full service.
The choice, as ever, is yours.
Last edited by Final 3 Greens; 29th Aug 2006 at 05:09.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Age: 64
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also flew into STN on a couple of occasions as SLF recently, once before the security hooha and once after. I am one of those who accepts Ryanair for what they are, as long as they don't start falling out of the sky. That said, the Swissport baggage handling is truly pi$$poor. Given the FR system, one usually finds oneself standing in line to board, while gazing out of the window at, yes, the baggage handlers misshandling the luggage. It is excrutiating watching the bags falling off the conveyor and being crammed into the trolleys. I am sure they do it on purpose.
The other notable thing about STN baggage handling is the fact that there will always be a small number of bags on the carousel after everyone has left. It is sad to read the tags for Malaga, Rome, etc, and in one odd case, Anchorage, Alaska (I suppose they just didn't know where it was, so refused to touch it).
The other notable thing about STN baggage handling is the fact that there will always be a small number of bags on the carousel after everyone has left. It is sad to read the tags for Malaga, Rome, etc, and in one odd case, Anchorage, Alaska (I suppose they just didn't know where it was, so refused to touch it).
...the thin end thereof
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: London
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't wish to sound harsh, but what did you expect from this airline?
Simple answer to that.
I expected to get my bags within one hour of landing. That would have been fine. One hour 45 imho is just not on, even on a low-cost. I'm not an FR ranter, I think it's in many ways a terrific airline, and as I said until this point I was very happy. But to wait nearly two hours for your bags (which if I'd been flying in from France would have been longer than the duration of the flight), is just taking the p!ss. Sorry but it is.
It's a matter of choice, true, this was my first time on FR so I think I have a right to complain without being told "you made your bed, you lie in it", etc.
P!ss poor Michael. You have built a very successful airline, and it won't go bust if I choose not to fly FR again. I didn't know Air Malta go to Catania, it is only FR who go direct London-Palermo (I believe), and if I fly to Sicily again soon I may choose the Air Malta option. Thanks.
If anyone can answer the question re: the contract I'd appreciate it. I know FR are very clever but I suspect they're on dodgy legal ground with their exclusion clauses on baggage, or the fact that you have two contracts with them (if this is true: note - just because a clause is included in a contract does not mean it is legally enforceable.
Simple answer to that.
I expected to get my bags within one hour of landing. That would have been fine. One hour 45 imho is just not on, even on a low-cost. I'm not an FR ranter, I think it's in many ways a terrific airline, and as I said until this point I was very happy. But to wait nearly two hours for your bags (which if I'd been flying in from France would have been longer than the duration of the flight), is just taking the p!ss. Sorry but it is.
It's a matter of choice, true, this was my first time on FR so I think I have a right to complain without being told "you made your bed, you lie in it", etc.
P!ss poor Michael. You have built a very successful airline, and it won't go bust if I choose not to fly FR again. I didn't know Air Malta go to Catania, it is only FR who go direct London-Palermo (I believe), and if I fly to Sicily again soon I may choose the Air Malta option. Thanks.
If anyone can answer the question re: the contract I'd appreciate it. I know FR are very clever but I suspect they're on dodgy legal ground with their exclusion clauses on baggage, or the fact that you have two contracts with them (if this is true: note - just because a clause is included in a contract does not mean it is legally enforceable.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: He's on the limb to nowhere
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 'contract law' that relates to baggage can be found in international conventions and eu regulations, maybe that's what your baa source is talking about, but it applies to them all. It is a good assumption that all airlines will hide behind these regulations and treat you poorly when things go wrong, that's unless your name is posh spice. There is another thread where somebody has been waiting for his artificial leg for a week, and he didn't fly on Ryanair.
I've found that some airports are better than others. It's the ones which have got busy in the past five years and have modern infrastructure that are the best.
I've found that some airports are better than others. It's the ones which have got busy in the past five years and have modern infrastructure that are the best.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Baggage Delay's
The baggage loads at the moment are about 25% heavier than they would normally be at this time of year because of the current security rules. This is obviously having a major impact on the time it takes to load and unload aircraft.
Because the aircraft would have been picking up delays throughout the day due to this and the fact that STNs runway is presently closing at midnight on Sat & Sun for resurfacing, means that a large number of aircraft are landing between 23:30 and 00:00.
Also Swissport's late shift is rostered to finish at 23:59, leaving only a small amount of nightshift and any agents willing to stop on for overtime (bearing in mind that most of them would have started at 13:30 and will be fairly shattered because of the heavy loads they are coping with) to unload the late arriving aircraft.
As you can imagine all of this coupled together means that it will take longer to get your bags if you're coming into STN at around midnight on the weekend.
I know this wont make you feel any better about having to wait over an hour for your baggage but hopefully it will explain the reasons why.
Because the aircraft would have been picking up delays throughout the day due to this and the fact that STNs runway is presently closing at midnight on Sat & Sun for resurfacing, means that a large number of aircraft are landing between 23:30 and 00:00.
Also Swissport's late shift is rostered to finish at 23:59, leaving only a small amount of nightshift and any agents willing to stop on for overtime (bearing in mind that most of them would have started at 13:30 and will be fairly shattered because of the heavy loads they are coping with) to unload the late arriving aircraft.
As you can imagine all of this coupled together means that it will take longer to get your bags if you're coming into STN at around midnight on the weekend.
I know this wont make you feel any better about having to wait over an hour for your baggage but hopefully it will explain the reasons why.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Somewhere between the Airfield ops and 26L
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its not just Ryanair at STN who have problems with Handling agents short staffing. LGW has issues too. Especially with Aviance and EZY. I'm not sure whether AEU have dropped Aviance yet, but FCA sure did!
I had a very memorable flight last summer with a 3 hours wait from chocks to First bags!!! Anyone from Aviance insight??? Nope, but can't blame them. The management don't hire enougth staff. Usually because the handling agent offer their services for a very cheap price to the airlines. Sadly this 'cheap price' means skeleton staffing.
I start to feel sorry for the loaders who must have to work their
off with a full 757 to get the bags in, knowing that there are another 5 aircraft waiting for them after they have finished that one! All arrinving at the same time, with the pax wanting their bags (quite rightly) ASAP.
I had a very memorable flight last summer with a 3 hours wait from chocks to First bags!!! Anyone from Aviance insight??? Nope, but can't blame them. The management don't hire enougth staff. Usually because the handling agent offer their services for a very cheap price to the airlines. Sadly this 'cheap price' means skeleton staffing.
I start to feel sorry for the loaders who must have to work their
off with a full 757 to get the bags in, knowing that there are another 5 aircraft waiting for them after they have finished that one! All arrinving at the same time, with the pax wanting their bags (quite rightly) ASAP.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Somewhere between the Airfield ops and 26L
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More things
HA's have Service level agreements with the BAA, at BAA airports. I can't remember the exact figures but the HA needed to have called 'Last Bags' at 90 mins from chocks. At least I think thats what the number was. It may well be less. If the bags are not all delivered in this time a reason needs to be given by the HA which is noted. To cut the story short HA's are fined for their short comings if the reason for repeated delays is their own fault, eg no staff. Whether the airlines have a similar process, i do not know. Sorry.
Last edited by howflytrg; 29th Aug 2006 at 12:20.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STANSTED & MANCHESTER
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The other notable thing about STN baggage handling is the fact that there will always be a small number of bags on the carousel after everyone has left. It is sad to read the tags for Malaga, Rome, etc, and in one odd case, Anchorage, Alaska (I suppose they just didn't know where it was, so refused to touch it).[/quote]
please understand that the baggage belts at stansted are used by all
airlines and every airport i have been there is bags left on the belts
to other destinations
ryanair has a very low lost baggage rate but i do agree that if you
arrive at peak times at stn you wait for bags i have had this with
easyjet ryanair mytravel el-al and kibris-turkish the main problem
at stansted is not the airline but the lack of baggage belts
only 5 belts in international baggage hall you only have to look
on Baa website arrivals between 2300-2359 to see that this is
not enough belts for the volume and is no reflection on ryanair
its just that this is a peak time for the airline
please understand that the baggage belts at stansted are used by all
airlines and every airport i have been there is bags left on the belts
to other destinations
ryanair has a very low lost baggage rate but i do agree that if you
arrive at peak times at stn you wait for bags i have had this with
easyjet ryanair mytravel el-al and kibris-turkish the main problem
at stansted is not the airline but the lack of baggage belts
only 5 belts in international baggage hall you only have to look
on Baa website arrivals between 2300-2359 to see that this is
not enough belts for the volume and is no reflection on ryanair
its just that this is a peak time for the airline
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: london
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've flown a heck of a lot over many years on many airlines, and I would strongly disagree with this assumption, it just isn't the case. There are exceptions, however, as Wedge has just found out.
As regards other points about staffing at Stansted, I think Wedge has a valid complaint, whether it's Ryanair or any other airline. If pax don't complain, standards will never improve, in fact they will just get worse.
Can anyone in the know tell us what steps the relevant managers are taking to rectify the problems at Stansted? Or are they just not going to bother?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: STANSTED & MANCHESTER
Posts: 1,893
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10 second
BAA are to build at least one more baggage belt
in the int arrivals hall but having worked at stn
in the past one is not enough if you ask me another
four wouldnt be enough at peak times
some people may not agree but baggage belts or
lack of them at stansted is the main reason for delayed
baggage every night every baggage belt built for one
flight at a time has at least 3 or 4 flights/pax waiting
in the hall for each and every belt to become available
having been in the undercroft and seen the baggage truck
sometimes 8 or more waiting for a belt to come free
the point is most of the time even peak times the bags
are down in the undercroft with-in 20min it just takes
another 30-40-50min for room on a baggage belt
to become free
I can tell you all if your waiting for bags I bet they are
in the undercroft waiting to come up and if you look round
upstairs at the baggage belts they will be full with at least 3
other flights bags going round
in the int arrivals hall but having worked at stn
in the past one is not enough if you ask me another
four wouldnt be enough at peak times
some people may not agree but baggage belts or
lack of them at stansted is the main reason for delayed
baggage every night every baggage belt built for one
flight at a time has at least 3 or 4 flights/pax waiting
in the hall for each and every belt to become available
having been in the undercroft and seen the baggage truck
sometimes 8 or more waiting for a belt to come free
the point is most of the time even peak times the bags
are down in the undercroft with-in 20min it just takes
another 30-40-50min for room on a baggage belt
to become free
I can tell you all if your waiting for bags I bet they are
in the undercroft waiting to come up and if you look round
upstairs at the baggage belts they will be full with at least 3
other flights bags going round
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: He's on the limb to nowhere
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
10secondsurvey,
Unfortunately the AUC (pdf) doesn't agree with the rosy picture you paint.
When things go wrong, which fortunately doesn't often happen, passengers are not treated well.
How are things at Heathrow? Found that leg yet? I bet the owners of the 20,000 bags there would be delighted for their luggage to only be 1hr 45 minutes late.
Unfortunately the AUC (pdf) doesn't agree with the rosy picture you paint.
But it is a worrying indication that far too many people are having problems with baggage that they entrust to the care of an airline, and that many of those who have such problems are having difficulty in obtaining suitable redress.
How are things at Heathrow? Found that leg yet? I bet the owners of the 20,000 bags there would be delighted for their luggage to only be 1hr 45 minutes late.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: here there and everywhere
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
However Catania and Palermo are a few hours away, it took me about 5 hours by car via Messina/Cefalu' (if you go north)and around 3 hours via Enna (if you go south first then take the big motorway to PMO).
Air Malta are very good too and I think they fly out of STN.
they also fly out of LGW and LHR but I think you'd need to connect in MLA which might add to the cost of taxes.I hope you enjoyed your stay in Sicily though and that the incident with baggage didn't spoil it for you, I think Sicily is a truly undervalued gem. Cannot wait to go back again!!!