finfly1

I believe I may have a solution which should be relatively easy to implement without a lot of cost.

Simply install locks on the overhead bins. Permit laptops, cameras etc to be brought on board (in modest sized cases) and secure and LOCK them before flight. No extra hold baggage, no lost or stolen irreplaceable items and people will not mind as much having their stuff in sight even if they can't actually get to it. And in the event of an emergency (medical etc) it could be got by a crew member as needed.

Hope someone who matters sees and reads this.

10secondsurvey

Found a bit of inconcsistency at T1 LHR yesterday. Guy in front of me was asked to hand over his pens at security, but one of them was rather nice, and he flatly refused. He was then allowed to continue on his way, with the pen. Whilst every one else had theirs 'confiscated'. So, if you want a pen at LHR T1 take a montblanc or similar. I guess all this kind of thing will get sorted when security realise that WHsmith in T! are still selling the things.

Bit of fun on a BA flight when the CC announced, 'can all passengers ensure that mobile phones and electronic items are switched off for takeoff and landing' -pretty much everyone laughed.

Got to say, this hand luggage thing does have an upside, everyone gets off the plane pretty damn quick

El Grifo

Can I just add, somewhat belatedly and naively that I thought this security crackdown was taking place in the UK only. Today I am being sent US blogs which are screaming vitriol at the very same things that are taking place over there.

Be honest, did you full understand that to be the case ?

clv101

This whole situation is a mess.

A case of deja vu here, regarding the latest terror scare:
I can't find any trace on the BBC website of a follow up to this. No arrests, no trials, just a big scare, and some new contracts for people making missile countermeasure equipment to be fitted to airliners...

Also note the ricin plot - with no ricin or plot, the Manchester United bombing that didn't happen and all suspect released, the Forest Gate and Stockwell shootings... the only two 'real' attacks (7/7 and the 'shoe bomber') weren't detected at all and statistically they represent no more than the historical level of danger, in fact the last few years have seen below average levels of terrorism.

I don't believe the hype surrounding the recent events for a moment. I don't believe there was any credible threat. Fundamentally I just don't believe there are dozens of prospective terrorists out there trying to blow things up - if there were things would be blowing up left, right and centre.

Flying Lawyer

bjcc

I repeat, I offered one idea in response to Scamera77's invitation.
I did not, and do not, claim it identifes the only problem (or would provide a complete solution).

_________

Thank you. At least we've reached common ground on that.
Let's agree to disagree over whether it's worth trying to do something about that aspect of the overall problem. The 'political' exchanges started before the thread was moved and aren't really appropriate in this forum.


FL

Final 3 Greens

t's not so much the inconvenience of not being able to use the laptop etc in flight - it's the risk of their loss or damage in hold baggage. Many business travellers also have sensitive commercial documents with them which they are unlikely to wish to lose sight of.

My hold luggage was mislaid for a day last month - the impact would have been that I would not have been able to run a workshop with 12 people present, as all the necessary info was on my laptop.

Last year it happended twice (one one occasion it took over a week for it to be located) and also I've had 2 Rimowa suitcases written off in the past 18 months - anyone who knows Rimowa will know that it takes some considerable force to break one.

What would have happened to the laptop I wonder?

AuthorityStinks

[quote=Basil]I am sure that this thread is being closely followed by those planning the next strike.
quote]

If the intelligence would become intelligent they would refuse access to any crew who's conceivably got internet access.


An Irish morning program had a securityspecialist on who happily suggested that "daily 32 busses from the 6 counties"(Northern Ireland) enter the republic without Gardai(Irish Police) having resources to search any of them.

As you see there are better sources than a forum like this for information just switch the tv on .

I wonder what happens when a G4 or G5 leaves for the USA, captain of industries turned inside out?

crew the screw

Never under estimate the AWESOME powers of the Almighty Bag Crushers... I've seen one run over by a baggage cart then just thrown back on the top of the pile...

No consideration for other peoples belongings

brakedwell

I think the present restrictions are a typical UK over reaction, considering the weak links remaining in the security chain. I will fly to Munich next month, clutching a clear plastic bag containing my wallet, passport, clean handkerchief and ticket, wondering whether I will be reunited with the camera, sat nav unit and Jaguar keys (electronic key fob) in my insecure suitcase which might or might not have been loaded in the hold. The return journey from Munich, where the authorities have promulgated the following security notice to passengers,will be considerably less stressful.

In compliance with US Homeland Security measures, the Bavarian Ministry of Transport has mandated that passengers on all flights to the United States are forbidden to carry liquids / semi-liquid materials on either their person or in their hand luggage. Passengers should remove all liquid / semi-liquid items from their hand luggage and stow them in their check-in luggage prior to reaching the security check:
Beverages
Beauty and hygiene products such as shampoo, toothpaste, sunscreen and other lotions and creams, hairgel, etc.
Liquids and semi-liquid items such as baby milk / food will be allowed so long as the baby / child is accompanying the adult passenger.
Other liquids such as prescription or OTC medication will also be allowed if the passenger can provide proof that the name on the prescription corresponds with the name on his / her ticket.
Passengers to the United States are also requested, wherever possible, to either reduce the amount of hand luggage they are carrying with them, or else avoid carrying hand luggage altogether, in order to expedite security checks. Passengers should also remove any and all objects from their hand luggage that could pose a security threat and instead stow these items in their check-in luggage prior to reaching the security check.

Passengers are advised to contact their airline directly prior to their flight for further information regarding security restrictions, delays or cancellations or other concerns.

Note - Security for all other destinations is as normal!!!!!

Ranger1

I understand precautions must be taken under the current security situation. That said I have to agree with many comments on this thread, the security measures being taken are over the top in the extreme. Seems to me they have been imposed with little explanation, why for example no books? They are easy and quick to check for hidden items, so why? Are these procedures ours or are we yet again following the US lead? Why are our European cousins not going to these extremes?Seems to me some of these security measures are being imposed because they can and little or no explanation for some bizarre checks are being given. All this can only result in damage to the industry or should I say further damage.


I can’t help thinking that this is all very convenient and has taken our focus away from this Governments terrible foreign policy. I am not saying there was/is not a threat but lets be honest the security services do not have a great record of getting their facts right! Iraq and WOMD springs to mind!

We are paying at the end of the day for living in a country that is too politically correct and too liberal! It is perverse that as a result we are now seeing our freedoms restricted. Frankly as a moderate I am rapidly moving to the right and am becoming very intolerant of certain so called minority groups! Profiling will not happen in this country until our Government wakes up to the fact that we can no longer afford to pussy foot around and start targeting those minority groups these terrorists come from for greater security checking. I am sorry if this sounds racist it is not meant to be but at the end of the day we are at war and it is time we woke up to that fact.

We need to stop getting involved with the Americans and we need to invest in new fuel types to remove our reliance on oil. We also need to stop being so politically correct ! Those who have nothing to hide in those minority groups have nothing to fear but they need to look into their own communities. What happens in Iraq or the Lebanon is of course important to all of us and the ballot box is the place to register your views in this country! The young men who killed innocent citizens last year enjoyed a freedom they would not have had in their ancestral countries of origin and how did they show their gratitude! ENOUGH!

brakedwell

YOU CAN FORGET THE TRAVEL INSURANCE.
Britain
The Times August 12, 2006
Terror plot
Insurers refuse to cover iPods and phones in airline luggage
By Valerie Elliott
Companies have decided to take a hard line, fearing that some travellers will try to exploit policies
MILLIONS of British air passengers were told last night that they will be travelling without insurance cover for valuable items such as jewellery, laptops, mobile phones and MP3 players that must now be packed in the aircraft hold.
After the emergency ban on cabin luggage as part of tough new air security controls, most insurance companies said that they would treat passengers sympathetically. But within 24 hours of the terror alert The Times has learnt that companies have decided to harden their position.
Insurance industry insiders say that companies are reluctant to announce blanket payouts for loss of valuables in these special circumstances because they think that passengers will exploit any relaxation of policy and have a field day with claims. Consumer groups predict scores of complaints from passengers about insurance companies failing to meet claims for losses.
The Air Transport Users Council believes that companies will attempt to pass the buck and it expects to be flooded with complaints from passengers about unresolved disputes in the next few weeks.
The problem has arisen because under travel insurance cover there is usually an exclusion for valuables that have to be kept in the personal care of the policyholder. Items generally without cover include: jewellery, antiques, precious metal or stone items, watches, binoculars, telescopes, games consoles, mobile phones, audio, audiovisual and photographic equipment, video cameras, computers and televisions. Many travel insurance companies were adamant yesterday that it will be the responsibility of the airline to cover losses because they have accepted valuables into the hold.
Under international rules an airline is liable to pay up to a maximum £850 in compensation for loss of luggage, a sum agreed as part of the Montreal Convention signed by the European Union two years ago. This replaced the former Warsaw Convention, which compensated losses based on a weight value of £15 a kilogram. The latest £850 figure, however, was calculated on the basis that expensive laptops and video cameras are transported by the passenger in the cabin, not as part of hold luggage. Travel insurance policies generally have an upper limit of £1,500 to cover all losses, and cover for valuables is about £400 to £500.
Passengers therefore stand to lose hundreds of pounds if a video camera or laptop goes missing. Claimants also have to go through an arduous process to prove their loss, with airline companies demanding proof that an item was in luggage.
A British Airways spokeswoman said last night: “We are bound by the Montreal Convention but we have no plans to reimburse for loss of valuables that are held in the hold. This is not something we have introduced but this has been forced on us by the Department for Transport. Anyone booking with BA online may be able, however, to buy cover from our transport insurance company, Preferential Insurance.”
EasyJet said that it expected passengers to have their own travel insurance policy, but that anyone with complaints should contact its customer services.
James Fremantle, the Users Council’s industry relations manager, said: “Passengers with claims can expect to be passed around between the airline and their travel insurance company . . . We are urgently looking into this.”
An spokeswoman for the Association of British Insurers said that many travel insurance companies will have to review their policies for valuables if these emergency arrangements become the norm. She advised passengers not to take valuables that cannot be replaced, adding that those who chose to take the risk should ensure that they had warranties and proofs of purchase. She suggested taking a photograph to prove that the items were in luggage.

El Grifo

brakedwell, I posted this on the "hand" wringing version of this thread to no apparent reaction.


Sounds like many of us were under the impression that this clampdown was "local".

I certainly was

One of them started of by saying "Sir, I'm going to have to take this bottle of water away from you since it might be a liquid explosive, and I'm going to have to mix it with all of these other bottles of possibly liquid explosive, and I'm going to have to dump them all in this trash can.......... together".

brakedwell

El Grifo
OK, so it's "local" in the UK and USA.

Ranger1

Brakedwell
If the current security measures continue then insurance wont be an issue as most business travellers will find other ways of getting to there destinations through Europe!

bjcc

clv101

As with all crime, here are 2 strands to deaing with it.

You can detect it, the meaning of which is self evident

Or

You can prevent it. This means act, although you have no specific evidence that an offence is going to be committed, or because although there is specific inteligence or evidence, it is not suitable, or capable of being put before a Court.

The ideal is to achieve both those objectives, but sometimes that is impossible. So there are times that one of the 2 objectives is used, if that prevents an act of terror, or any other offence, then thats fine.

This is no different to any other form of crime, for example, information being recieved that can't be substantiated about a security van that is going to be attacked, and that attack prevented by the appearence of a police vehicle. Was there ever going to be an attack? Or did the Police presents prevent it? No one will ever know, the same applies with the incidents you mention.

El Grifo

Brakedwell

Point is that the whole brewhaha is being presented as if it is mainly occuring in the UK, whereas according to US blogs, exactly the same is happening over there.

I had not read that anywhere, had you ?

Interestingly, the majority of thursday flight arrivals in my location (thursday being the busiest of the week) arrived on time, early or no more than 30 mins late. The media, IMHO have wittingly or unwittingly warped this whole story.

fyrefli

Spot on. Like many others, I'd be liable to prosecution and civil suit if I lost my laptop or memory stick - even if I wiped all personal data off it it still has database connections etc stored. I was going to go to Annecy paragliding (AMS to GVA) at the end of the month. Now I'm changing my monthly outbound AMS to BRS to the end of the month to collect my Bandit from Bristol and bring it back here. Until I can carry my business tools again I'll be riding to Bristol and back - 7 1/2 hours door to door by bike with the Shuttle against typically 5 by air but I have no choice.

This needs sorting very soon.

Cheers,

Rich.

Ranger1

El Grifo

It has been on the news all be it in small print and it has been published by the airlines to it's passengers and staff!

Fyrefli

I fear you will not be alone and I can't blame you!

BEagle

So, if the insurers won't insure us against damage resulting from this heavy-handed over-the-top security, who will? The airline? The handling company?

If something in your luggage is damaged, I guess the only option is to sue the baggage handling company......

Intelligent profiling is the only way. And sod the civil libertarians!

lexxity

fyrefli, F£G, BEagle I agree that things need to be sorted out to allow the high yield business pax to travel with the items they need to carry out their business. But the airlines are at the mercy of the bureaucrats on this one. I hope things are sorted soon regarding hand luggage and the airlines can get through this latest problem and start welcoming passengers, who are taking their business elsewhere, back again.

How long did it take to get new rules up and running after 9/11? I forget.