Flying Korean Air

[Romeo Delta]

I know a lot of people here have bad vibes for Korean Air. Can anyone tell me why this is?

I'm going to be flying them extensively in September (ATL-ICN-AKL), and would like a thorough rundown of what to expect.

Particulars? I am a Delta Gold Medallion member, and just spent 150,000 miles and US$22.00 for Business Class return tickets from Florida to Auckland, NZ (second home). As Korean is the Delta partner in SkyTeam, I'm forced to fly them.

Thoughts? Any are appreciated. Thanks!

RD

[christep]

http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics

They had a bad patch in the late 90s and I have seen reports on PPrune and elsewhere about a couple of other very near misses. So I avoid them at the moment. (Although not as rigourously as I avoid China Airlines)

You can find discussion and reviews over at <URL edited at the request of the moderator Tightslot> which is a much more extensive place for frequent travellers than here (where we are really just a "bolt-on" to a place for crew members).

{Edited to remove the URL of a specialist frequent fliers bulletin board at the request of the moderator in whose view "using the services of one internet forum to not only advertise but also to promote the services of another is not acceptable."

This is a great shame since I have promoted PPrune as an excellent place to come for expert advice on a number of other forums, including a***xpat.com, a**disaster.com, g**expat.com, and the forum which I have been asked not to mention, and none of them have problems with me "promoting" PPrune in this way. It is a shame that the feeling is not reciprocal, but I am open to PM if anyone would like the URL privately}

[Globaliser]

Actually, if you want to find out what's really happening safety-wise at carriers like KE, PPRuNe is actually a very good place if you lurk in the appropriate crew forums. But you may not like what you find.

When people ask me, I tell them there are statistics and accident descriptions readily available. But my thinking usually gets home to people when I point out (in unfair tabloid style) that KE is the airline to have the distinction of having aircraft shot down by the Soviets - and not just once, but twice.

[christep]

Globaliser,

I agree entirely - from a safety perspective PPrune is the place I look to find out about airlines. (And for Korean it is more their habit of flying into the ground that bothers me, rather than being shot down.)

But I understood the question to refer also to the type of inflight service which RD might receive, and for this there are undoubtedly much more comprehensive places to look than PPrune. Unfortunately Tightslot has taken objection to me mentioning them by name so I have been obliged to edit my post.

[Maxrev]

The flights I've been on were mostly fine in Biz, no complaints about the service or aircraft. Their record isn't great for an airline operating such modern aircraft, but they do seem to have improved recently.

CRM has been a big problem in the past. For proof dig out the CVR transcripts for the KE A300 that went off the end and burnt out a few years back, with a Canadian skipper and local co-pilot who nearly ended scrapping with each other during the approach.
No-one was killed in the over-run but the CVR transcript would be funny if it wasn't so terrifying.

[Globaliser]

christep:
{Edited to remove the URL of a specialist frequent fliers bulletin board at the request of the moderator in whose view "using the services of one internet forum to not only advertise but also to promote the services of another is not acceptable."

This is a great shame since I have promoted PPrune as an excellent place to come for expert advice on a number of other forums, including a***xpat.com, a**disaster.com, g**expat.com, and the forum which I have been asked not to mention, and none of them have problems with me "promoting" PPrune in this way. It is a shame that the feeling is not reciprocal, but I am open to PM if anyone would like the URL privately}

I'm very sorry to read that you were asked to do this.

That specialist frequent flyers' talking shop is not a competitor to PPRuNe by any stretch of the imagination. Quite a number of the UK-based contingent over there are (like myself) also regular visitors and contributors here. I regularly mention PPRuNe over there, without detriment to them; I really can't see that it would hurt PPRuNe for some SLF queries to go over there as well.

[Bubbette]

Do a search here on prune and you will find out more than you want to know.

[flyblue]

christep
what you are doing is unfair towards the Moderator of this Forum and your intentions dishonest. You perfectly know what tightslot meant even if you pretend you do not and cry outrage. But in case you didn't , naming another site is ok, stating its superiority over the site where you are a guest is sheer bad taste. And we don't like it.
And that's the reward to tightslot for being respectful and PMing you.

[Memetic]

I think this is one of the reports that generated "bad vibes" HOWEVER NOTE THE DATE OF THE REPORT.

http://www.pprune.org/go.php?go=/pub/tech/korean.html

[Land After]

Hey,

I can't see the problem in posting a link to www.flyertalk.com (and I'm just guessing as to the link as I flit between PPRuNe and FT and recognise Christep's handle) as an both an aviator and a piece of SLF.

Flyertalk is one of the best sites for the lowdown on Pax views on airline service and all things PAX related.

PPRuNe provides a view towards airline ops that the majority of PAX, or even frequent flyers, wouldn't be interested in unless they were very hardcore or, like me, PPLs with an active interest in aviation.

Live and let live! Or maybe I should forsake all others and bow to the mighty PPRuNE......

[TightSlot]

Well I'm back home late night after a particularly challenging flight (yawn), and have now caught up on this thread.

The text of what I took to be a PM to christep was as follows:- and I stand by it.

It is of course, your absolute right to surf anywhere you wish. However, using the services of one internet forum to not only advertise but also to promote the services of another is not acceptable.

I'm about to go flying, and should be back in the early hours: I would like to think that by then you have reconsidered your post and edited it accordingly.

Thanks for your assistance.

I think we all now understand what has been going on here and can frame our views accordingly.

I would hope that at this point we can all move on to assist Romeo Delta with his/her enquiries, since this thread may have been hijacked enough for one day.

[silly walks]

Romeo Delta.

Having once worked for Korean and paxed on them a few times, you are in for an interesting experience , but the fact that you are in business will go some way to helping.

I would recommend going for the Korean meal option as is it is less stodgy then then western option, and generally better taste.

The cabin crew in business will be very willing and will do their best to make your journey a smooth one, but you will find some of them are openly hostile towards westerners, and will look down at you. They can also be quite sharp and rather than ask you, ie Can you please close your blind, they will tell you to close the blind!!

You will also find that the pa announcements are at times unintelligable, and if english is not your 1st language you will struggle, as they have nobody onboard who speaks anything other than Korean and basic flight attendant English.

When you change at ICN you will find the ground staff have a similar command of English and anything out of the ordinary will leave them puzzled, and will result in many phone calls before they action your request.

Also when they play the inflight exercise video, it is well worth watching as everybody(especially in economy,) will join in, and it can be quite entertaining.

Hope that has given you food for thought.

Enjoy the trip

SW

[Romeo Delta]

Thanks to all that responded!

I know a bit about Korean's safety record. I was in Auckland for that well-known no-flaps takeoff a couple years ago that sparked a CRM debate here on PPRUNE, and have been at the viewing end of AKL's Rwy 24 watching Korean's pilots getting lost on the taxiways trying to get to Alpha 1 (to their credit, both Singapore and Thai also got lost ON THAT VERY SAME DAY). But I haven't heard anything recently.

Also interesting about the view of Westerners from the cabin staff (thanks, especially SW). Is this relatively recent, or has it become worse in the last year (as the view of us Westerners has deteriorated worldwide, for certain reasons we will not debate here)?

Once again, thank you for your responses, and I look forward to an interesting trip in September.

Happy flying!

RD

(edited for poor spelling; badd spelrz untie!)