EK or CX FO
 

Hi everyone,

Just reaching out to see what opinions there are in regards to taking a First Officer position at Emirates or Cathay Pacific.
I have received offers from both airlines with Emirates being the Non-Type Rated 777 position.
I’m interested to see what people have to say ‘post COVID’ in relation to lifestyle, rostering and pay conditions.
I have been working for a regional in Australia and ready to take the leap overseas.

Appreciate any help!

Your call.
 

Paywise You’ll be on Z scale or what ever letter they are up to. At least EK is upfront and has been paying massive bonuses lately.

Hong Kong has mostly recovered from COVID and still has a lot going for it however most expats around 80 percent according to a recent report have fled the city. Replaced by mainland Chinese mostly. HK has High cost of housing with a reduced or no allowance. Cathay has a good network and I’m guessing you’ll have a similar experience with lifestyle at EK.

Check and Training and Industrial relations there can be very adversarial so be careful

climate is a big one too. Dubai is always Hot and hotter. Climate in HK is more temperate and tropical.

time to command, around 7 yrs at EK. Don’t know about CX.

your choice at the end of the day but if it was me I’d be going to EK hands down. CX is a shadow of its former self.

Read the thread about DEFO in Fragrant Harbour. CX does not offer a contract, you work under a policy.

Things offered today can be free revised tomorrow, there is ZERO industrial bargaining.

Welcome to CCP China and zero workers rights.

What he said!
EK plans to double in size by 2040 after the move to the new airport. So upgrades will keep happening between now and then at a reasonable rate.
No cost housing. Subsidised schooling. Pretty good staff travel.

And no more Donpizmeov sitting behind you in the sim slapping you with his handbag and sending spittle all over you
as his lisp gets worse with anger.

Thanks guys, appreciate the info! Interesting to hear

What about QF Mainline?

I’d definitely be interested in QF but still waiting for the next application run to open, heard next year to even two years from now it’ll open back up with training slots currently full.

What, 32C with high humidity 24 hours a day for 10-11 months of the year? To say nothing of the pollution.
I loved my time in both CX and Hong Kong, but it's all gone now - go the EK, young man.

A type rating on a wide body and a couple of years route flying will put you at the top of the list when QF recruit again but after a few years overseas with seniority built up and a command getting near, you’ll find it difficult to come back and start from the bottom again.

EK are a mega world airline which has big expansion plans and government backing with some good benefits such as housing, medical and education. CX probably won’t get that much bigger, the Chinese government aren’t that bothered about it and the benefits are continually shrinking. Neither city has a fantastic quality of living, but Dubai possibly has the edge although HKG is closer to home. Rosters can be brutal with EK probably worse due to ULH and big time changes.

If I was in your position I would be leaning more towards EK.

I took Hong Kong over Dubai 25 years ago. I was already flying in the Middle East and I had found the culture revolting and that extended to the flight deck. It wasn’t for me. EK would have been different but the pay wasn’t. A little assimilation and an open mind and with your big pay check, Hong Kong was a wonderful experience. One year in HKG was financially equivalent to working 3 in Australia as a QF Captain. The package would have required a 900K wage in Australia and then there was no tax on your investment wins and financial packages were amazing ( CBA Private % rate was RBA plus 1% ). So 20 years in HKG was like a 60 year career at QF financially.

Now? HKG is more expensive and the wage a fraction. It’s great still but different.

Middle East? Why? I’d be asking that very seriously.

The gold for Aussies is now in the USA. The experience is incredible as the US has some sort of birthright to aviation. The flying culture is rich, versus the dreariness of working with cadets which will be the norm in HKG in 5-10. Aussies crave an early retirement. In the US they work til 65 as it’s more relaxed and less toxic- and yes, they often need to! Caveat is standards. You’ll need self-discipline to transfer your US experience elsewhere in a rigid airline environment.

You forget to mention the time it takes to earn a wide body command and wage at QF. When comparing to someone who earns the same amount from when they are 28 with a Jet command in the Middle East to a Qantas A380 captain who typically upgrades in their late 40s or 50s. This difference highlights a multimillion dollar gap. The situation is even more pronounced at ANZ, where a 777 skipper might have a mere decade in command before aging out. This underscores the significant financial sacrifice one makes to work for the likes of QF or ANZ, obviously they fail to mention this at their careers fair.

Housing in HKG in the last 24 yrs has way underperformed Oz or NZ, so that monetary gap is completely gone. Don't confuse the place today with HKG 1980s or 1990s. Once you're in your 50's, it all evens out, everyone you learnt to fly with has a command, be it CX QF or Air NZ. And I have no doubt there's a very large number of CX Captains in their 50's who would trade it all right now, in 2024, to have their time again and join QF or Air NZ.

Similar path to Gnadenburg, except I was with the parent airline. I really enjoyed my Middle Eastern trips, but was always happy to get back to HK, where I wasn’t treated like a second class citizen. Now flying in the states at a major.

HK is still the best place I’ve lived, & I miss it every day. The other thing about acquiring HK property was it was with the company’s money (mostly) via the housing allowance (R.I.P). Over 9k USD/mth. Selling at a gain was a bonus if your timing was good.

To the O.P, I’d take EK over CX now.

A low cost airline will give you a much quicker upgrade, equaling more of your career in the left hand seat on Captain’s pay. However the pay is lower but you spend more time on it. This works out for an older joiner looking at 10-15 years before upgrading at a legacy airline and only getting 5-10 years in command, most likely only on a narrow body, before retirement.

All swings and roundabouts which we have very little control over. World events can mean you’re flying an A380 one day and driving a bus around a city a few weeks later, as happened to a few QF Captains during COVID.

A start date three months after a particular intake can leave you spending multiple years extra in the right seat if the pilots ahead of you are a young demographic and won’t be retiring for a long time. Pilots joining Virgin Australia in the early 2000s could upgrade in 2-3 years, now is well over 10.

A pilot’s dream is to get taken on by their first choice airline and get a quick upgrade, the reality is more often accepting the first offer followed by a long wait for the fourth stripe.

Choosing between CX and EK depends on your personal preferences and which airline is a better fit for you, rather than which one is the better airline, if that makes sense.

I would be looking more towards EK but could understand someone else preferring CX.

Pickuptruck

Past performance isn't a guarantee for future returns. You also don't have to live in Australia to own property there. Most of my Australian colleagues own in both HK and AUS. As an accountant in my former career, the financial advantages of CX over QF or ANZ are obvious, the biggest being taxes, even after being forced to sign a new contract in 2020. Yes Hong Kong is a very expensive place to live, ie housing, but with relatively quicker upgrade times than QF and ANZ over a career, CX is still better financially.

Verbal Kint

I'd have to agree. For the same reason CX is better than QF and ANZ, EK and Dubai is better than CX and HKG. They still have most of the perks CX use to have and even lower taxes.

Easy to say which has better package , which one on paper you can make more money , get quick command but which one works best for you and your family ? Where do you think you’ll be happier to live , where is best place to raise kids and the big one , where will partner be happy ! If you leave with same partner and kids are happy and doing well you’ll be one of the richest when it’s finished .

That leads into rostering, pay and annual leave.

CX seems bloody terrible these days. Rostering awful. An important respite from Hong Kong was the requirement to get out regularly. We had 10 weeks annual leave. A part time option. And two annual 5 days off passes. It was truly amazing.

Disposable income is inevitably a factor of happiness if an expat in expensive countries. Unless fun is cheap.

First rule in the old days when you joined CX and wanted to retire rich.
Leave Hong Kong with the same woman you arrived with.