How goes the REX EBA "negotiations" ?
 

Been strangely quiet on here about anything to do with the REX negotiations that are underway at present.
Has anyone got anything to share ?

maybe a quote from Chairman Mao about how he won't pay the pilots any more money ???

Our union has been incredibly silent with just a couple of weeks left on existing EBA, and it is rumoured that when LKH was in town a few weeks ago he cancelled an EBA meeting - something to do with mis-management having better things to do I believe (along with his philosophy that he dictates the terms).

To top it off it seems there is little direction being created within the pilot group in terms of how we are going to obtain a viable EBA - unless this changes, LKH WILL dictate the terms.

We need more union leadership - but that would seem unlikely when we have so few union members to demand a quality union response to this situation. :sad:

Rex EBA
 

You are kidding me. The management dont want to negotiate! Thought they would have been proactive in trying to lock in a deal to keep pilots.

Shows that they are quite scared about it possible. Hopefully a chance for the Rex boys and girls to get a few steps up (Capt's earning 100k etc).

Morning apache.

wethereyet, very true I'm afraid.

To better understand the mindset of management in all of this, it may be prudent to take a look at history and how the pilot groups of both REX and their predecessors have been swindled over the years.

• 1995: Hazelton Airlines embarks on a disasterous attempt to break into the domestic market by inaugarating a Sydney-Geelong service. It fails and after 12 months is discontinued after a loss of $2.5 mil, and the retrenchment of some 20 pilots! At the 1996 EBA negotiation management request a pay freeze of 2 years in order to help the company get back on it's feet. An undertaking was made, that during the next EBA, the 2 years will be made up, ie: 6% will be on the table + CPI for the next 2 years + whatever productivity offsets can be negotiated. The pilot group agrees.
• 1998: At the beginning of the EBA negotiations the pilot representatives remind the current management of their pledge. Their answer, "That was made by the previous management and as such has no relevance today"! The pilot reps reminded the General Manager that he was in fact the deputy at the previous EBA. He is unmoved and refuses to take responsibility for the aforementioned pledge. Furthermore the company position is that it may consider a CPI rise but only if certain working conditions are given up! The offer made without "productivity offsets" was approx 1% below the then CPI. Needless to say the negotiations were difficult and heated, and when told that the offer made by the company would not be accepted, the General manager at the time bypassed the negotiating team and put the company's proposal direct to the pilot group. It was rejected almost by 100%. The final outcome, after nearly 8 months of unmittigated bullsh!t an EBA that provided 0.5% P/A above the then CPI with concessions on T&C's was agreed upon. So, by the end of the 1998 agreement, the Hazelton pilot was approx 5% worse off and had given up long standing T&C's into the bargain.
• 2000: The same pattern repeats itself. The outcome? an EBA that only keeps place with CPI. Hazelton pilots are still approx 5% behind.
• 2001: Ansett collapses taking with it Hazelton, Kendall, Aeropelican, and Skywest. 12 months of Administration follow.
• 2002: The Kendell and Hazelton business's are combined to become REX. The new CEO picks the eyes out of both EBA's, slashes conditions and adopts the lower of the two pay scales, (Hazelton pilots were paid approx 5% less than their Kendall counterparts) so guess which one he picked. He tells the pilot group in no uncertain terms to "Take it or leave it". Because of a rather infamous civil war within the Kendall camp due to the displacement of the mostly senior CRJ pilots, the remaining Kendall group endorse the EBA. The Hazelton pilot group almost unaminously reject it. Having absolutely no idea of industrial law the CEO pronounces the new REX EBA a done deal. Of course the Industrial Relations commision had other ideas! The CEO was this time forced to negotiate. the company asked for the assistance of the pilot group in helping it through this early period, and you guessed it, requested a pay freeze untill the 2005 EBA, with an undertaking to "make good at the next EBA! Sound familiar. Certain T&C's were placed back on the table, nothing new of course, simply rights that were swept away during the period of uncertainty. After a period of complex negotiation, the 2002 EBA was finally certified. The result, REX pilots will now be approx 14% worse of in terms of pay by the end of the EBA in 2005! That is based on what Hazelton pilots should have been paid. Compared to their higher paid Kendall and Eastern counterparts, the figure would be closer to 20%!
• 2005: REX offer a wage rise approx 1% below the current CPI. They do however introduce a profit sharing, and share gift program. The sucess of this is very much dependant on the performance of the company as a whole. As a result the pledge by the previous management to make good the approx 9% due to the wage freeze was discounted as Having no relevance as it was made by a previous management! I'll say one thing for the bastards, they're consistant! The EBA was finally accepted and as a result the base salary of REX pilots by the end of the 2005 EBA is now approx 17% below what a Hazelton pilot could have expected if their wages had simply kept pace with CPI since 1995!!
• 2008: So hear we are today. I have been told that the REXPC and the AFAP heve submitted a progressive EBA proposal that will amongst other things help to mitigate the loss of irreplacable crews and at the same time provide valuable lifestyle benefits for existing and future pilots. Whilst I sincerely applaude their efforts and integrity, I'm afraid they are dealing with a beast that has proven over many years to be unworthy of that level of dedication.

My prediction, and I do hope I'm wrong: The Company will offer a similar package to the 2005 EBA. There will be no acceptance of responsibility for the real reduction in wages over the last decade or so. The mantra of "We cannot afford more" and "we cannot compete with the domestic airlines" will fortify them against any moral or logical arguement put forward by the negotiating team. The dedicated members of the REXPC (unpaid for their labour) will be forced to submit a substandard document to the pilot group for a vote. As the majority of current REX pilots probably do not see themselves with the company in 12 months time, the proposal will more than likely get up. Management, cloisted in their ivory tower, and ignorent of the real issues, will no doubt be patting themselves on the back. As for the REXPC and the rest of REX's largest employee group, the only option open to them will be Take it or leave it! Sadly for REX, many will in fact choose to leave it.

I often find it amazing how people forget to look to the past for guidance.

There's a saying that goes something like this: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!"

Perhaps the Rex pilots need reminding of this one Krusty?

I believe that there is another saying.. something along the lines of "History is wasted on the young"

It is indeed an unfortunate and sad story about two once great airlines.

A catch 22 perhaps in the eyes of management, who BELIEVE that REX is only a stepping stone for pilots to move on. Whilst T&C's are like this, it will continue to be treated as a stepping stone. If T&C's were improved, then maybe people would stay a little longer.... OK, costs more in the short term, but saves in the long term.

oops... management don't get bonusses for LONG TERM achievements!!!!

Hate to say it guys and gals... it is NOW time to UNITE, and stand firm.

That's absolutely correct ABX, but I wouldn't be too hard on the previous and current pilot groups. If there is one thing that I have learnt over the years, it is that these "negotiations" are about one thing only, Leverage!

Unfortunately in years gone past the company(s) have always had the uper hand in this regard. Short of something along the lines of '89, what can we do? The unilateral decision to ban working on days off would have brought the crewing issue into serious focus, and perhaps, just perhaps, may have made the company take notice. The problem with that is that under Work-Choices it was made illegal to organise any sort of ban on overtime. That was deemed illegal industrial action! As there was no official direction in this regard, most pilots, especially low paid F/O's were reluctant to knock back working on days off. with work choices gone, maybe now is the time to start talking and acting tough?

Any sort of action in this regard will bring condemnation from the company (In the past they have even taken veiled swipes at the pilots for going sick!), so if it is going to be guerilla warfare, it will get nasty. Most professionals would rather see a concilliation process aimed at a mutual benefit for both parties. Sadly, sucessive mangements have proven themselves completely defective in this regard!

So there are really only 2 options.

• Get tough, get united, reject any substandard EBA proposal, refuse to work over-time, but work legally within the EBA.
• Leave for greener pastures

As long as the majority of pilots choose the latter option (and who can blame them), then we will continue to see an erosion of the REX pilots wages and conditions...17% since 1995 and falling!

One thinks that maybe management have been somewhat distant about there thoughts on the new eba. Kinda like maybe not even addressing the new document at all. Maybe they think the current eba is good enough! (yeah maybe, maybe for rats in the singapore sewers but not for professional pilots in Australia)

FMC.

You probably hit the nail on the head FMC.

I would be surprised if REX management have any intention of negotiating at all. The usual M.O. is to duck, weave, and generally stuff the pilot Reps and the union around untill such time as they give up out of sheer frustration.

Make no mistake boys and girls, they have already made up their minds as to how much they will give.

ZIP!

Krusty, I disagree, they have made up their minds on how much they would like to pay.

It is the pilot group that will determine our labour rate, not management (within fair and reasonable boundaries) - either by sitting back and being dictated to by a very arrogant management, or by only offering our labour at a fair and acceptable rate.

Hopefully as a group we can come to terms with the fact that we will not see a cent more unless we make it clear to management that they will leave us with no choice but to exercise our right to withdraw our labour if they will not negotiate fair and acceptable remuneration. Just the same as BP will not pump fuel into our SAAB's at a price management would like to pay.

It really boils down to whether there are enough pilots left in the company that actually care about the future T&C's for rex pilots. Those that do not care should NOT vote when it comes time, so as to not dilute the votes of those that care.

BTW, anybody know why this thread has ended up in the GA forum?

Gidday wethereyet,

There really are the only 2 options, and I do in fact agree with you. The problem will be to get everyone united enough. If we acheive that, then anything is possible. but as I said previously it will get nasty. Management, especially REX management do not like having terms dictated to them. proper negotiation has failed. Years of history bears that out.

Who knows, if people get pissed off enough, they just might finally unite. Now that would be something to see.

9 more days until the ball is in the employee's court?

I think crew have already decided to vote with their feet. Fighting is seems not worth the effort. Management have decided that cadets are the solution to people leaving at thats it. Thus no real improvement in T&Cs.

The near future doesn't look good with so many people having jobs lined up with other companies. I would say at a guess that in the next two months the resignations will be thick and fast. Once others' training programs start to move again that is.

This will cause major disruption to services. You think the pilot shortage has affected the company, you aint seen nothing yet! Also factor in that the training of pilots is too slow due to the somewhat 'stalled' sim training and the loss of good quality check and trainers. It is barely handling the current requirements as it is.

I actually think the point of no return is fast being reached. Management will still be sitting in their 3rd floor board room looking at a row of W/Ts parked against the fence. Oh, and thinking, "at least the Beemer in the car park has been paid off."

FMC.

Krusty, you really should send that brief history lesson to a journo who would be gutsy enough to publish it. It could really help explain in fairly brief, plain terms to the plebs why people keep moving on from Rex. It is not ONLY that people want to fly jets. How many other industries out there would be that far behind just the simple old CPI (taken for granted by most workers)...?! How many other people and industries would tolerate what has happened? What an example of backflip treatment to those who have personally sacrificed for the good of the company - no wonder people move on...

Krusty, excelent work. Someone who can spell out the facts like your good self should be on the REX board!
Totally in agreeance with the Nomad; forward some details to a journo for release to the public. What has a journalist got to loose by publishing some stories in magazines or newspapers anyway? They love a good story!:ok:
When it comes down to it, I believe that REX deserves to fall on it's a**e if it doesn't come to the table with anything less than a suitable EBA for pilots that takes into account the current climate. I refer to "climate" on two angles;

• The finacial unrest in the economy - fuel, food electricity, water, everything that comes into day to day living.
• the pilot shortage - pilots will keep leaving if the conditions aren't favourable. What else would you expect? It's hardly nuclear engineering!!

Pay the money and stop forcing the pilots that work at REX to live on or below the poverty line... have some Freakin' pride in the company! At every level - by the way, the "company" is not management back pockets.
10 - 4 out.

CHECK and TRAINING!!!!!!!
 

Krusty,
You have obviously been with the "Rex" group for some time and I sympathise with your frustrations in seeing the combined group being destroyed.

As I assume you are relatively senior, can I also assume you are also C&T?
Because of the throughput of pilots at Rex , you, and all the other C&T Captains must be so exhausted because of those continual C&T duties???

Can I suggest that ALL C &T CAPTAINS AT REX, RESIGN FROM SUCH POSITIONS because of the continaul workload and stress you must be experiencing.

Role on......

It has come to my attention that pilots are more likely to make better progress in negotiations by going through the Transport Workers' Union than through other so-called pilot unions.:ugh: What they need is for heavy weights who know what they are doing to get in and kick heads - put the fear into management.

:mad:

Alien, I predict that Krusty is being (sensibly) careful with his identity and wont answer your C&T question.

10-4, good idea regarding the TWU, they have guts, there is no 'pilot union' in Australia that (currently) has guts.

You never know what the future may bring, the union and pc might decide on a 'downing of tools' so to speak should management decide not to address the new document with respect.

FMC.

Its the Pilots that need the plan, the TWU are good support.
The TWU can offer advice, and access to legal services but you guys need to negotiate with their assistance. They have little knowledge of Aviation matters. Its the name and legal support that help you win.

I assume the AFAP is supposed to be representing you guys?
They don't seem capable of fighting back. Just my opinion.
If you use them now I would go to them and tell them what you expect, not only in T&C's but in the way of assitance, if they won't follow your line of thinking advise them of the consequences and find an organisation that will.
Thats a lazy attitude.
For the average Pilot there is little to NO effort required. The Pilot Group are the ones that will need to work.
The Pilots need to make a couple of decisions and stand as a group. That simply means vote together and then act on that vote together. This is the hard part!
It is extremely unlikely that any industrial action would be required. You decide what you want, (reasonably) take it to a pro active industrial organisation. (I say organisation as the AFAP is not a union).
The chances are simply by not signing any new agreement, applying for a bargaining period, a little pressure like not accepting duties outside your agreement things may change. The TWU are excellent at getting media coverage.
The potential for problems down the track if the management do not bargain fairly are high. Management will seek advice from their experts and be informed of the risk. They will probably resist until the pressure builds and then you may see some change.
The most frightening aspect of this within management circles is seeing Pilots stick together, its a new concept and they are not used to it.
You will never get 100% support, don't expect it and quite frankly you don't need it. I reckon around 70% will do the job fine.
there is no advantage in voting yes for an agreement that isn't up to speed.