CASA CLASS 5 Medical self-declaration - from 9 FEB 2024
https://www.casa.gov.au/licences-and...on#Eligibility
Online applications will open 9 February 2024 There's an online course to do via Aviationworx. Let's see who gets the first one and how long it takes. I'll be there. Pleasantly surprised Update Thurs 5pm 8th Feb. The course is there, and I've just done it. It takes about an hour. Have not completed the assessment part just yet. So congrats to CASA for actually coming through with the required course, on time. Update - later on 8th Feb. Completed the online quiz - carefully, I got 100%. Took just under an hour to go through it carefully. It's not super complicated, it is 100% possible to get 100% first go. DON'T GUESS the answers, prove them to yourself, it is 100% possible. Good luck folks. I shall apply for my Class 5 tomorrow. I will report back again on how it goes. I might even dial in at 12:01am! Nah- screw that. UPDATE 9 FEB: I HAVE MY CLASS 5 MEDICAL CERTIFICATE! I honestly did not think I would ever see this, at all, let alone so early into this year. Congrats to CASA, a small step in the right direction. |
Of course there’s a course. How uniquely Australian. There’s an effing course for just about everything. What could possibly be in this course? Oh wait, ai forgot, simple **** everyone knows anyway.
I mean really? |
In fairness to CASA, the US BasicMed system includes a course and quiz, after which the candidate has to complete and submit a form to the FAA.
But US BasicMed allows up to 6 POB (including pilot), MTOW of 6,000 pounds and IFR... |
"The fact that Australia is the first jurisdiction where pilots will not have to see a doctor or medical practitioner made it difficult to find comparative data on the likelihood of impairment or a related accident." - CASA Briefing February 2024. Why is Pip Spence and CASA continuing to lie about this "fact"?
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Originally Posted by Clinton McKenzie
(Post 11590479)
In fairness to CASA, the US BasicMed system includes a course and quiz, after which the candidate has to complete and submit a form to the FAA.
But US BasicMed allows up to 6 POB (including pilot), MTOW of 6,000 pounds and IFR... https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...tion/basic_med Class 5 requires no check-up with any medical professional of any kind - not even a GP! I realise that's the same as RAAus, but isn't this a step too far? Perhaps designed to fail so CASA can say to GA in general "we gave you what you asked for and look what happened!"?? |
Originally Posted by Possum1
(Post 11591015)
"The fact that Australia is the first jurisdiction where pilots will not have to see a doctor or medical practitioner made it difficult to find comparative data on the likelihood of impairment or a related accident." - CASA Briefing February 2024. Why is Pip Spence and CASA continuing to lie about this?
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UK CAA Pilot Medical Declaration.
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Possum1 is correct.
My view is that the UK PMD system is currently better than US BasicMed. UK PMD is, in essence, a declaration that the pilot reasonably believes that the pilot meets the medical requirements for a Group 1 (Car) licence. The pilot doesn't even have to be the holder of that licence. We're so "stupid" as to not require at least a check-up by a doctor every year or five to hold a driver's licence in Australia. We all need to try harder not to pretend that being an ordinary pilot is so special as to require 'special' medical requirements. There are always bureaucrats standing by to help in that regard. |
Originally Posted by Clinton McKenzie
(Post 11591059)
Possum1 is correct.
My view is that the UK PMD system is currently better than US BasicMed. UK PMD is, in essence, a declaration that the pilot reasonably believes that the pilot meets the medical requirements for a Group 1 (Car) licence. The pilot doesn't even have to be the holder of that licence. The new scheme allows many private and recreational pilots to self-assess and self-declare without the need to see a doctor. We believe our Class 5 medical self-declaration scheme sets a new benchmark in terms of trusting pilots to decide on their own fitness without seeing a doctor. This represents an innovative step towards streamlining the medical certification process, and we are dedicated to ensuring that the scheme is robust, equitable and reflective of the community's needs. Class 5 webpage. |
Originally Posted by PiperCameron
(Post 11591092)
Well, Class 5 doesn't even require that:
[Emphasis mine] That's like trusting a truck driver to not be sleep-deprived and high on drugs before he crashes, killing four police officers... but never mind. Let's go! |
Originally Posted by Possum1
(Post 11591015)
"The fact that Australia is the first jurisdiction where pilots will not have to see a doctor or medical practitioner made it difficult to find comparative data on the likelihood of impairment or a related accident." - CASA Briefing February 2024. Why is Pip Spence and CASA continuing to lie about this "fact"?
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I'm with Piper on this issue. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear (though if CASA Avmed can be kept out of the process, there would be less to fear). What's wrong with seeing a GP every couple or so years to run a basic assessment and issue a piece of paper to insert in your licence?
Seeing a GP occasionally may even identify an issue that could ultimately prolong your life. I would also be quite comfortable with all road users having to do a basic medical for intitial issue of a drivers licence and another medical examination at some later stage in life. Where I live we don't even do an eyesight test at age 80, which is all in the name of 'no age discrimination'. I am rapidly approaching that age, and right now my eyesight is borderline Class 2 medical standard, which means it's also marginal for driving, so I am getting it fixed at considerable expense. Many drivers don't, because the law does not mandate a test, and so put others at risk every time they are on the road. Same with some pilots - if they are not compelled to do something, they'll go into denial mode. With these types the whole 'self assessment' thing is a crock. The first time some fat fool concealing or unknowingly having a medical condition carks it in flight and takes his grandkids out with him, or plows into the local school, CASA will scrap this and serve up something we really won't like. |
That's like trusting a truck driver to not be sleep-deprived and high on drugs before he crashes, killing four police officers... but never mind. Let's go! (1) the truck driver was not the subject of any compulsory periodic medical examination requirements, and (2) if the truck driver had been subject to compulsory periodic medical examination requirements, the accident wouldn't have happened? My understanding is that it's possible for a person who's been medically examined and certified as complying with a medical standard to be "sleep-deprived and high on drugs" a week after certification. Or the week after that. Or a day after that. I do hope that those advocating for compulsory, periodic medical examinations are not so hypocritical as to take the risk of flying in Class G. There are plenty of 'self declared' pilots flying in G already - well, for decades actually - and they could be "sleep-deprived and high on drugs". (Don't tell anyone, but the same applies in some Class D.) |
[Emphasis mine] That's like trusting a truck driver to not be sleep-deprived and high on drugs before he crashes, killing four police officers... but never mind. Let's go! What stops a airline pilot flying severely affected by drugs or alchohol, not just damp, but the multitude of other people they have to work with who will notice the condition. What stops an outback Chieftain freight pilot from the same, nothing, the same as the truck driver. The best person to assess your medical fitness is YOU! The rules should be self certification with heavy penalties for not following disclosure rules. There's only one area I disagree with full self certification and that is fatigue, as airlines can weasel the rules to make it difficult and almost punitive to use fatigue leave. So the rules need to be tight around mandatory rest periods and lengths of duty. FRMS as it is is a joke, compared to truck driving duty limits. PS, just remember every time you take that overtime payment and extend into overtime tired, that data is captured by your companies FRMS which then extends the parameters by which they can roster you. Every time you call in fatigued within a normal roster cycle it shrinks the parameters. So doing lots of overtime tired is really going to count against you in the long run, so think about how much that OT is really worth over a long career. |
i have many doubts about whether any organisation is likely to allow their aircraft to be hired by a pilot with essentially no medical clearance at all. I think it highly unlikely that any insurer would approve.
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Originally Posted by mustafagander
(Post 11591283)
i have many doubts about whether any organisation is likely to allow their aircraft to be hired by a pilot with essentially no medical clearance at all. I think it highly unlikely that any insurer would approve.
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Meanwhile, the UK CAA has just finished consulting on proposals to further simplify its Pilot Medical Declaration system. That system was introduced in 2016. Insurance has been a non-issue.
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I think the biggest overlooked problem today is blood pressure medication. The very first thing to go is sensitivity in your feet. I am in no doubt that this medication is responsible for the wrong pedal, too much accelerator events we are experiencing almost every day and at an age we wouldn't normally expect that to occur.
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"The new scheme allows many private and recreational pilots to self-assess and self-declare without the need to see a doctor. We believe our Class 5 medical self-declaration scheme sets a new benchmark in terms of trusting pilots to decide on their own fitness without seeing a doctor. This represents an innovative step towards streamlining the medical certification process, and we are dedicated to ensuring that the scheme is robust, equitable and reflective of the community's needs."
"Many private and recreational pilots" are still weasel words if they are not going to permit pilots who may have had their Class 1,2 or 3 medical cancelled in the distant past to participate in this scheme, which, as the Technical Working Group pointed out to CASA last year, the Class 5 medical standard is a different standard to the Class 1,2 or 3 medical. It follows that someone who cannot pass the Class 1, 2 or 3 medical may easily qualify for a Class 5. It also follows that a pilot's health situation may have improved in the years since his medical was cancelled. "... we are dedicated to ensuring that the scheme is ... equitable ..." Oh, really? |
Originally Posted by 43Inches
(Post 11591224)
What stops a airline pilot flying severely affected by drugs or alchohol, not just damp, but the multitude of other people they have to work with who will notice the condition. What stops an outback Chieftain freight pilot from the same, nothing, the same as the truck driver.
The best person to assess your medical fitness is YOU! The rules should be self certification with heavy penalties for not following disclosure rules. There's only one area I disagree with full self certification and that is fatigue, as airlines can weasel the rules to make it difficult and almost punitive to use fatigue leave. So the rules need to be tight around mandatory rest periods and lengths of duty. FRMS as it is is a joke, compared to truck driving duty limits. Shouldn't Class 2 Basic be good enough to cover commercial ops and let everyone else go free?? |
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